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stroking kits 383, 393 or 395

This is a discussion on stroking kits 383, 393 or 395 within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I am considering in the near future stroking my ls1 out and I am trying to decide which kit to ...

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    stroking kits 383, 393 or 395

    I am considering in the near future stroking my ls1 out and I am trying to decide which kit to do. I am leaning towards the 395 but I am curious if that would be reliable or not. If not then I will go smaller. I would like to get opinions on each of these kits and experiences with them. Thanks in advance.
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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I am considering in the near future stroking my ls1 out and I am trying to decide which kit to do. I am leaning towards the 395 but I am curious if that would be reliable or not. If not then I will go smaller. I would like to get opinions on each of these kits and experiences with them. Thanks in advance.
    I'd recommend the 383 there. The reason being is that by going to a 395 you will increase the stroke to 4.125 which will consume oil as it's been well documented and the pistons will become much thinner which wont bode well with nitrous or boost should you ever decide to go that way.

    My advice would be stick the the 383 if not then maybe pickup a cheap iron block 6.0 and stroke that to 408, in the end you would only be out a few hundred bucks for the block as machining work and all other costs would be inherent on both motors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I am considering in the near future stroking my ls1 out and I am trying to decide which kit to do. I am leaning towards the 395 but I am curious if that would be reliable or not. If not then I will go smaller. I would like to get opinions on each of these kits and experiences with them. Thanks in advance.
    I'd recommend the 383 there. The reason being is that by going to a 395 you will increase the stroke to 4.125 which will consume oil as it's been well documented and the pistons will become much thinner which wont bode well with nitrous or boost should you ever decide to go that way.

    My advice would be stick the the 383 if not then maybe pickup a cheap iron block 6.0 and stroke that to 408, in the end you would only be out a few hundred bucks for the block as machining work and all other costs would be inherent on both motors.
    I am staying NA. Besides oil consumption are there any other issues? And how much oil are we talking about? What about a 393 which is a 4.100 stroke, would that consume oil? I mean much more than stock that is. The cost for a 408 seems way more than a 383 from what I have researched as the rotating assembly costs more, at least at the sites I've looked at. Although I found a iron block on ebay for $550 that is bored to 4.030, so all I would have to pay for is to have it checked out and a shop to install stroker kit. Unless I installed it myself.

    Although part of me wants to stay aluminium for weight savings unless I go the lsx block route and stroke and bore it to the max or close to it. I know the iron is 80 pounds heavier, would I notice that?
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 02-02-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I am staying NA. Besides oil consumption are there any other issues? And how much oil are we talking about? What about a 393 which is a 4.100 stroke, would that consume oil? I mean much more than stock that is. The cost for a 408 seems way more than a 383 from what I have researched as the rotating assembly costs more, at least at the sites I've looked at. Although I found a iron block on ebay for $550 that is bored to 4.030, so all I would have to pay for is to have it checked out and a shop to install stroker kit. Unless I installed it myself.

    Although part of me wants to stay aluminium for weight savings unless I go the lsx block route and stroke and bore it to the max. I know the iron is 80 pounds heavier, would I notice that?
    Anything over a 4" stroke is going to present some issues because it moves the wristpin up into the piston and in the center of the oil ring. The consumption varies but some people report a qt in 1000 miles which is a little much for me couple that with the terrible ls pcv system and you'd be eating quite a bit...

    another downside to a larger stroke is that since the sleeves on the ls1 blocks are short a longer stroke than 4" will cause skirt wear like shown on this 4.125 ls3. please dont delete this link mods its not selling anything just trying to help the op out

    Skirt wear on 4" stroke motors, show me yours... - LS1TECH

    the mods may delete this link but if so just google skirt wear 4" motors on ls1tech

    I honestly dont think that you would miss the 10 cu from the 383-393 but its up to you.

    Dont forget that the iron block will cost a few hundred more. But you cant count boring as that would need to be done to your ls1 anyway as well as clearancing the block for the crank. people say the 80lbs isnt noticeable dd'ing the car unless you autocross. keep in mind also that the 4" bore allows you to explore other head options like l92 ls3 heads which are good budget heads out of the box for 600 bucks.

    you also gain an extra 15 cubes over a 393 by going iron, a 4.030 bore with a 4" stroke makes a 408 which is exactly what you want a smaller stroke than bore.

    if you were really hung up on an alum block you could do an ls2 block stroked to 4" and get a 402 but the ls2 block will cost more.

    my advice is keep it to a 383 or go iron and 6.0 or alum ls2 6.0 block.

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    I plan on road racing with some drag. Would I notice the iron with RR? I found a used block for $550 that is already bored out to 4.030 on eBay, does that sound like a good deal? Anything I should be concerned with?

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    That's not a bad price if its bored and ready. I would pass over it with a drill home just in case though. And I don't think it would be a huge deal but maybe try a google search ad see what people who run them say.

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    so if i wanted to do a 383 stroker i would need to bore out my block?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    That's not a bad price if its bored and ready. I would pass over it with a drill home just in case though. And I don't think it would be a huge deal but maybe try a google search ad see what people who run them say.
    It probably won't matter much since I ditched my HVAC. I am starting to lean more towards a 408. I am just having trouble finding a reasonable priced rotating assembly for it.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    How much was the 383 kit? Texas speeds 408 kit is the same price as their 383 kit which is 1795 base. I would make a couple up grades to the kit though, lunati crank instead of eagle, h beam rods and get good clevite bearings but even after all that the kit comes in under 2300

    And to the guy above no you don't need a bore a 383 is made with a .005 hone and a 4" stroke

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    How much was the 383 kit? Texas speeds 408 kit is the same price as their 383 kit which is 1795 base. I would make a couple up grades to the kit though, lunati crank instead of eagle, h beam rods and get good clevite bearings but even after all that the kit comes in under 2300

    And to the guy above no you don't need a bore a 383 is made with a .005 hone and a 4" stroke
    I can't find it now but I thought I found it for a lot less than that.

    Either way I go I was thinking of using the following:

    Wiseco +5cc or Diamond +10cc Domed Pistons
    K1 technologies light weight H-beam rods
    K1 technologies crankshaft
    Clevitite Bearings

    I want to make a high compression engine but still on pump gas whether I do a 383 or a 408. Also another thing have 243 heads, can I use that on a 408? How important is balancing?

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I can't find it now but I thought I found it for a lot less than that.

    Either way I go I was thinking of using the following:

    Wiseco +5cc or Diamond +10cc Domed Pistons
    K1 technologies light weight H-beam rods
    K1 technologies crankshaft
    Clevitite Bearings

    I want to make a high compression engine but still on pump gas whether I do a 383 or a 408. Also another thing have 243 heads, can I use that on a 408? How important is balancing?
    Balancing is VERY important, especially on engines that will see 6k plus rpm most companies will balance a rotating assembly for you for a small fee when you order everything which is what I would do. That way you can just go ahead and put it all together.

    Pump gas friendly is related to a lot more than just compression, cam events and chamber size all play a roll. I would say though that you would be pretty safe with a smidge over 11:1 compression on 91 or 93. 11:1 compression and a custom cam with tight lsa, medium duration, and high lift would make one nasty torque machine.

    Are your 243 heads ported? Even a 383 would be choked out by stock 243 heads. Both the 383 and 408 would run just fine on them but you would be leaving a lot to be desired.

    AI, and TEA can get you setup with a top quality port job for around a grand and those would flow pretty well for a big engine. If porting isnt an option perhaps look into the l92 heads and an ls3 intake that come stock on the 6.2's. As I said earlier they can be had for around 600 a set NEW and while they wouldnt outperform the best aftermarket cathedral heads they would certainly make much better power on a 408 as they flow more out of the box than 243's do. P.S this is only an option for a 408 however because the heads require a 4" bore which the 383 wont have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Balancing is VERY important, especially on engines that will see 6k plus rpm most companies will balance a rotating assembly for you for a small fee when you order everything which is what I would do. That way you can just go ahead and put it all together.

    Pump gas friendly is related to a lot more than just compression, cam events and chamber size all play a roll. I would say though that you would be pretty safe with a smidge over 11:1 compression on 91 or 93. 11:1 compression and a custom cam with tight lsa, medium duration, and high lift would make one nasty torque machine.

    Are your 243 heads ported? Even a 383 would be choked out by stock 243 heads. Both the 383 and 408 would run just fine on them but you would be leaving a lot to be desired.

    AI, and TEA can get you setup with a top quality port job for around a grand and those would flow pretty well for a big engine. If porting isnt an option perhaps look into the l92 heads and an ls3 intake that come stock on the 6.2's. As I said earlier they can be had for around 600 a set NEW and while they wouldnt outperform the best aftermarket cathedral heads they would certainly make much better power on a 408 as they flow more out of the box than 243's do. P.S this is only an option for a 408 however because the heads require a 4" bore which the 383 wont have.
    They are stock 243s atm, but I plan on getting them ported by AI which would be close to the price of new stock ls3 heads. I want to stick with cathedral port since I have a Fast 102 with cathedral port runners. Texas Speed charges over $200 for balancing which is ridiculous, I wonder what Vengeance charges. Doesn't a high compression motor that is gas friendly have to do with the tune as well?

    My cam of choice with the stock ls1 was going to be 240/244 .595/.605 112 lsa but I imagine the specs for a 383 and a 408 will greatly differ on what is doable with high compression.

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    that sounds like a solid plan I would call ai and see what port they recommend for your 243's to go with the 408. the 102 will go well with that also. 200 for balancing at least where I live is cheap for machining costs but if you can have it done cheaper where you live just order whatever kit and have it done when you get it.

    and yes the tune is part of the pump gas equation. adding more timing or taking away timing will affect the fuel burn and ping. but you dont want a motor running 12:1 comp and then have no timing. ideally you want a strong comp ratio and still be able to run a good amount of timing. that cam in your ls1 was probably huge lol but the stroker eat all of that up. in a 383 that cam is a medium sized cam and in a 408 its actually on the small side. I'd recommend getting with vengeance, tick performance, Geoff, or Patrick G and have them spec you a cam with your goals in mind. that way you will get a cam custom tailored for you, it will have all the characteristics you want matched to your setup.
    Last edited by redbird555; 02-03-2013 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    that sounds like a solid plan I would call ai and see what port they recommend for your 243's to go with the 408. the 102 will go well with that also. 200 for balancing at least where I live is cheap for machining costs but if you can have it done cheaper where you live just order whatever kit and have it done when you get it.

    and yes the tune is part of the pump gas equation. adding more timing or taking away timing will affect the fuel burn and ping. but you dont want a motor running 12:1 comp and then have no timing. ideally you want a strong comp ratio and still be able to run a good amount of timing. that cam in your ls1 was probably huge lol but the stroker eat all of that up. in a 383 that cam is a medium sized cam and in a 408 its actually on the small side. I'd recommend getting with vengeance, tick performance, Geoff, or Patrick G and have them spec you a cam with your goals in mind. that way you will get a cam custom tailored for you, it will have all the characteristics you want matched to your setup.
    That was my plan. Another thing to throw out there. The reason I am considering this is my block may need a repair at one of the lifter tray bolt area and if I need to remove it to get it repaired I will either be ditching it and putting a 408 in or getting the block fixed and stroking it to 383.

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    sounds good man i would rather go 408 over 383 any day. more cubes, more torque, and better head options. another thing to consider is the short block opption texas-speed and other venders have assembled 408 shortblocks for 3900 or there about.

    Stroking your ls1 to 383 cost would come out like this where I live.
    Hot tank block $80 bucks
    Hone cylinders .005 $360
    Line bore Rod caps for arp bolts. $100
    Balance rotating assembly $200.
    383 Stroker kit $2000
    Total: ~$2775+tax

    408:
    LQ4 block honed and ready $550
    Line bore Rod caps for arp bolts. $100
    Balance rotating assembly $200.
    408 Stroker kit $2000
    Total: $2850

    Those prices dont include assembly should you choose to have the machine shop do that also. Point is the price is pretty similar when its broken down. And dont forget I'm sure you could sell your ls1 for some cash also the way it is. The other reason i broke it down is to show that even though $3900 looks like a lot for a short block. You get a brand new block assembled and ready to go backed by a good company who will stand behind their product should something fail.

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    True I think if I have to remove it to get it repaired I will throw in a 408 shortblock. I hate TSP but mainly their customer service sucks but I know they will stand behind their products. I may have to suck up my dislikes against them. I can't use my ARP head bolts off my LS1 can I on a 408? Another question is what size cam can I go with without a stall on a 408, I don't have one yet.

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    Ya I have to say their customer service hasn't been the greatest to me either but they do have good stuff. And yes the bolts should work as long as the block they give you is pre-04 style if its the block with the new style bolt holes then no but that's something I would ask wen ordering

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    Ya I have to say their customer service hasn't been the greatest to me either but they do have good stuff. And yes the bolts should work as long as the block they give you is pre-04 style if its the block with the new style bolt holes then no but that's something I would ask wen ordering
    I think it says 2004+ style on their site in which case I will probably buy ARP studs.

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    Will all of this above has been solid info.

    My plans for my LQ4 block are LS3 heads & intake (*), swap the LQ4 pistons over to LS2's (Already have them). LS2 timing chain, LS6 oil pump and a custom grind cam from Pat G or something from Vengeance like the VRX-5 Camshaft. 6 liters (408's) seem to like it a lot.

    One more thing I've read that the 6 liters seem to like MS3/4's more so then the LS1's. I think it's because of the extra cubes.

    * Note - I may for now throw in the LQ4 with the LS2 pistons with my LS6 intake and find some 5.3 heads or 243's to get it running till I can have everything for the 408 build so I wouldn't be moping around without being able to drive my car. Only thing that sucks is that I would be buying a cam twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Will all of this above has been solid info.

    My plans for my LQ4 block are LS3 heads & intake (*), swap the LQ4 pistons over to LS2's (Already have them). LS2 timing chain, LS6 oil pump and a custom grind cam from Pat G or something from Vengeance like the VRX-5 Camshaft. 6 liters (408's) seem to like it a lot.

    One more thing I've read that the 6 liters seem to like MS3/4's more so then the LS1's. I think it's because of the extra cubes.

    * Note - I may for now throw in the LQ4 with the LS2 pistons with my LS6 intake and find some 5.3 heads or 243's to get it running till I can have everything for the 408 build so I wouldn't be moping around without being able to drive my car. Only thing that sucks is that I would be buying a cam twice.
    This is what I have been trying to consider, throwing in a 6.0 now and later stroking it out. Can I use stock rods and crank with 4.03 pistons or can I use stock ls2 pistons with a 4.03 bore (I wouldn't think so). Another question, could I use all of my ls1 rotating assembly minus pistons if it checks out?(crank and rods for example)

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