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Stroker Question

This is a discussion on Stroker Question within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hey all. I have a question about a stroker kit I found. Usually for the entire setup you're looking at ...

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    Stroker Question

    Hey all. I have a question about a stroker kit I found. Usually for the entire setup you're looking at anything from 3200 dollars to 4200 dollars like the kits on ws6store.com. however I was just on ebay and found this kit for 1200 bucks. I'm quite hesitant about this simply because it's a third of the cost. anyone know anything about this or tried it? I have reason to be skeptical right??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SMALL...spagenameZWDVW

    thanks!

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    Senior Member Bottesini's Avatar
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    My first thought with my super quick glance over what they are offering is that it is for a SBC engine only (gen I) and that they are not offereing anything for a LS1 (gen III). I could be wrong one of the questions to ask them. As for the quality it is hard for me to say I have been away from the SBC Chevy scene for a while and there might be tons of new good companies. For the LS I can say that none of what they have listed match the engine I have been starting to plan out recently.

    Some of the best people I have talked to about piecing together a rotating assembly has been Thuder Racing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
    My first thought with my super quick glance over what they are offering is that it is for a SBC engine only (gen I) and that they are not offereing anything for a LS1 (gen III). I could be wrong one of the questions to ask them. As for the quality it is hard for me to say I have been away from the SBC Chevy scene for a while and there might be tons of new good companies. For the LS I can say that none of what they have listed match the engine I have been starting to plan out recently.

    Some of the best people I have talked to about piecing together a rotating assembly has been Thuder Racing.
    I'm still somewhat new to this? How do you tell if this kit would work on an LS1? SBC is just Small Block Chevy correct? Sorry if I sound somewhat slow when it comes to the internal engine components. I know more about bolt on's. thanks again.
    Last edited by architect7; 07-27-2008 at 08:58 PM.

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    Senior Member Bottesini's Avatar
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    Usually when I see SBC (small block chevy) I think Gen I engines, which are different then the LS1 which is a Gen III. I am not sure of all the exact details but there a few significant differences. I think one of the biggest being the crank. The best way to make sure they are not offering something for the LS1 is shoot them a message and ask. Maybe they offer something outside of Ebay, or on another auction.

    I would also suggest look into making a 402 or 408. You do have to buy a block and all of that, but personally I think the cost for gain is rather good. Not to mention you can drive your car and assemble most of the motor.

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    That's a stroker kit for a Gen I smallblock. Not compatible with the Gen III/IV LS blocks.

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    I have found the best prices at www.flatlanderracing.com they have complete rotating assemblies for $1,800.00 and come with crank, rods, pistons, rings, and bearings with all popular bore/stroke combos. For an extra $200.00 they will balance the rotating assembly so you could assemble it out of the box if all of your clearences check out. I have yet to find a better price anyware else and have talked with some manufacturers (Wiseco, Scat, etc...) about Flatlanders rep and they all had good reviews so I would feel comfortable doing buisness with them. Scoggin Dickey Performance Parts also has decent pricing and I bought my heads and intake from them and they only took 2 days to arrive at my door so I would recomend them as well. Happy Hunting.

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    That is their smallblock kit this is their LS kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS1-S...mZ260208406383

    I am calling them tomorrow to make sure as the advertisement clearly states LS series. Never heard of hawks racing parts before. But for 1400 it is by far the cheapest kit I have seen. I'm looking into it as well already have the 6.0 block was going to just drop forged pistons and rods in it until I saw that. Now I'm seriously looking into their 408 kit. Biggest thing bothering me is the 2618 forged pistons what the hell is that? I'm not into the metalurgy is a 2618 like the brittle hypereutectic crap I've heard about?
    Last edited by slims00ls1z28; 08-03-2008 at 11:42 PM.

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    I'm not sure either but all of the top piston manufacturers use that type of material in their premium forged pistons including nitrous and forced induction except for Mahale powerpack pistons wich use a 4032 aluminum alloy wich I believe is weaker, closer to a hyperutechtic piston.

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    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    Hmm so now all I need to do is decide on a 408 or 421 then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    That is their smallblock kit this is their LS kit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS1-S...mZ260208406383

    I am calling them tomorrow to make sure as the advertisement clearly states LS series. Never heard of hawks racing parts before. But for 1400 it is by far the cheapest kit I have seen. I'm looking into it as well already have the 6.0 block was going to just drop forged pistons and rods in it until I saw that. Now I'm seriously looking into their 408 kit. Biggest thing bothering me is the 2618 forged pistons what the hell is that? I'm not into the metalurgy is a 2618 like the brittle hypereutectic crap I've heard about?
    Forgive me because I cannot remember where I read it, but recently I found articles about hawks racing and the LS1 stroker kits and all I can really remember is people were not too pleased with it. You might google around for a while, you might come up with the same articles I saw. I'd just advise not to rush into buying something because it's a "good deal". In the long run it might be worth spending the extra cash to get something people recommend and that's reliable.

    Thanks for all the post though everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
    I have found the best prices at www.flatlanderracing.com they have complete rotating assemblies for $1,800.00 and come with crank, rods, pistons, rings, and bearings with all popular bore/stroke combos. For an extra $200.00 they will balance the rotating assembly so you could assemble it out of the box if all of your clearences check out. I have yet to find a better price anyware else and have talked with some manufacturers (Wiseco, Scat, etc...) about Flatlanders rep and they all had good reviews so I would feel comfortable doing buisness with them. Scoggin Dickey Performance Parts also has decent pricing and I bought my heads and intake from them and they only took 2 days to arrive at my door so I would recomend them as well. Happy Hunting.
    These aren't bad prices. I was curious about a few things. How can you tell from these kits what the stroke is? i.e. 405, 427, etc. Also, what type of piston would everyone recommend? I've seen dome, dish, and flat though the scat only offers dish or flat. physically I understand the difference but what would be better?

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    These aren't bad prices. I was curious about a few things. How can you tell from these kits what the stroke is? i.e. 405, 427, etc. Also, what type of piston would everyone recommend? I've seen dome, dish, and flat though the scat only offers dish or flat. physically I understand the difference but what would be better?

    Thanks again.
    You look at the size of the bore and stroke. From there it is just finding the volume of a cylinder *8.

    As for what kind of pistons to run it really depends on what you want to do with the engine. An example is the engine I am planning which will be a mostly NA car that will see nitrous. So I am getting a very flat bitrous piston by Diamond (only -2cc valve reliefs, only because I might one day get a bigger cam) which will help with keeping a good burn and not give up much compression. Domes are usually to raise compression, but can affect how well the burn process happens. Dished are usually used to lower compression, especially for forced induction.
    Last edited by Bottesini; 08-04-2008 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    These aren't bad prices. I was curious about a few things. How can you tell from these kits what the stroke is? i.e. 405, 427, etc. Also, what type of piston would everyone recommend? I've seen dome, dish, and flat though the scat only offers dish or flat. physically I understand the difference but what would be better?

    Thanks again.
    I love this little site http://samson-power.com/65afx/cubic_inch_calculator.htm

    4 in stroke 4 in bore = 402
    4 in bore 4.125 stroke = 421
    4.060 bore 4.125 stroke =427

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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    I love this little site http://samson-power.com/65afx/cubic_inch_calculator.htm

    4 in stroke 4 in bore = 402
    4 in bore 4.125 stroke = 421
    4.060 bore 4.125 stroke =427
    awesome. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
    You look at the size of the bore and stroke. From there it is just finding the volume of a cylinder *8.

    As for what kind of pistons to run it really depends on what you want to do with the engine. An example is the engine I am planning which will be a mostly NA car that will see nitrous. So I am getting a very flat bitrous piston by Diamond (only -2cc valve reliefs, only because I might one day get a bigger cam) which will help with keeping a good burn and not give up much compression. Domes are usually to raise compression, but can affect how well the burn process happens. Dished are usually used to lower compression, especially for forced induction.
    You definitely sound like you know your stuff. Here is what "eventually" I would like the finished product to be. I'm very interested in the Trickflow cam and head package with the 228/232 cam. I'm also interested in a 427 stroker rolling assembly. I guess my question to you is. do these two combinations complement each other or is this a bad idea? and also, is this still a "streetable car" where I won't have to worry about stalls and overheating? Just give me your take. Ideally I could drive around town in this, maby even take it out of state and still occasionally do a road course... everyone is now probably laughing at me... a lot to ask for huh? ha ha. thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    You definitely sound like you know your stuff. Here is what "eventually" I would like the finished product to be. I'm very interested in the Trickflow cam and head package with the 228/232 cam. I'm also interested in a 427 stroker rolling assembly. I guess my question to you is. do these two combinations complement each other or is this a bad idea? and also, is this still a "streetable car" where I won't have to worry about stalls and overheating? Just give me your take. Ideally I could drive around town in this, maby even take it out of state and still occasionally do a road course... everyone is now probably laughing at me... a lot to ask for huh? ha ha. thanks again.
    Not sure I would say I know my stuff just can BS well

    To be honest I am not sure what is needed for a 427 stroker build. I do know one key component will be lots of money. You should be able to do it, but might need an LS3 block or LSX which are really expensive compared to what I am looking at (LQ9). As long as you are willing to foot the bill I don't see any problem with a 427, especially if you can find a block that has a big enough bore. I tend to prefer that the bore be wider then the stroke is long, or at least close.

    Eventually I plan on getting the Trick Flow heads and from what I have found they seem to be one of the best for the LS1 engine, and with that cam should make decent power. With a larger engine though you might want an even bigger cam all depends on how much you want to DD the car. Even with a bigger cam it will be very tame compared to a LS1 with the same cam. Even for a LS1 that is not a super aggressive cam. I have a 226/228 and drive it everyday (usually at least 1000 miles a month often more). The only problem I see with running a bigger cam on a DD like mine is the springs. Personally I don't want to replace my springs to often so for as long as my car is my only car I am keeping a baby cam, even when I get the new engine in. If that ever changes though one of the first things I will be looking into doing is a bigger cam.

    As far as stalls and overheating. No idea about stalls, I just don't have knowledgeg of them in modern cars since I am an adament stick driver. They are just better for the type of driving I do, not to mention if I ever want to get into road racing again (if I ever win the lottery).

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    You definitely sound like you know your stuff. Here is what "eventually" I would like the finished product to be. I'm very interested in the Trickflow cam and head package with the 228/232 cam. I'm also interested in a 427 stroker rolling assembly. I guess my question to you is. do these two combinations complement each other or is this a bad idea? and also, is this still a "streetable car" where I won't have to worry about stalls and overheating? Just give me your take. Ideally I could drive around town in this, maby even take it out of state and still occasionally do a road course... everyone is now probably laughing at me... a lot to ask for huh? ha ha. thanks again.
    That cam on a 427 cube would be relatively mild. You wouldn't "need" a huge stall but a stall couldn't hurt. Hell a 3600 stall on a stock LS1 is plenty of fun. I have/had an MS3 (on a 114 LSA) cam on an otherwise stock LS1 with a 3600 stall. Tuned it handled DD status on the weekends at stoplights with the air on. On a 427 it would make it even more liveable as architect stated because the larger cubes. 427 with that cam and 3600 stall should be plenty "streetable".

    As far as block goes you "could" make a 427 out of a LQ9 boring it out .060 with the 4.125 stroke however the block would have to be sonic checked to make sure it can take that much of an overbore. The much safer route would be to make one out of an LS3 which come with a 4.06 bore already and add a 4.125 stroke crank. The LS3 blocks can be had for around 800 if you know where to look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
    You look at the size of the bore and stroke. From there it is just finding the volume of a cylinder *8.

    As for what kind of pistons to run it really depends on what you want to do with the engine. An example is the engine I am planning which will be a mostly NA car that will see nitrous. So I am getting a very flat bitrous piston by Diamond (only -2cc valve reliefs, only because I might one day get a bigger cam) which will help with keeping a good burn and not give up much compression. Domes are usually to raise compression, but can affect how well the burn process happens. Dished are usually used to lower compression, especially for forced induction.
    I'm still having slight trouble figuring out this site. Are any of those SCAT LS1 stroker kits a 408CI? And if so, that wouldn't require any boring would it?

    Thanks again for your help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    I'm still having slight trouble figuring out this site. Are any of those SCAT LS1 stroker kits a 408CI? And if so, that wouldn't require any boring would it?

    Thanks again for your help!

    Honestly I have not done any research or looked into the SCAT kits. The normal way to get a 408 is with an LQ9 block that is bored over .030" (4.030" bore total) and use a crank with a 4" stroke. Personally I want as much meat on the cylinder walls as possible so I am just going to have my block honed .005"

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