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stall?

This is a discussion on stall? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; hey guys, im gonna have about $1500 to put on my car, it currently has cam, headers, ory, no cats/mufflers, ...

  1. #1
    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    pewter
    2002 camaro

    stall?

    hey guys, im gonna have about $1500 to put on my car, it currently has cam, headers, ory, no cats/mufflers, slp intake, and thats all as far as i know i bought the car that way, the only thing ive done to it is change the oil every 3k mi, with mobil 1, k&n oil filter, i put ngk spark plugs, and msd wires, it has 2.73s, dont want to put gears cuz i like the mileage, and high rolls, i have my mind set on stall, dyno tune, and maybe nitrous, now my question is, does the cam it has affect what kind of stall i should get, is there any way i can find out what kind of cam it has, and specs on it, is there something i should consider before these mods, my best is 13.1@115, but on the street i beat flat 12s cars. thanks for the help.

  2. #2
    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    Well, if you have stock stall.... and the car is running good.... It cant be that big of a cam really. Only way to know is if you get the cam card from the guy really. 3.73's wont really reduce your MPG all that much. Really need to find out what cam is in that motor, but if your running a 13.1... it cant be too large, also on stock stall.

  3. #3
    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    pewter
    2002 camaro

    well it sounds like its big, it has a very big lope, it needs a tune bad, like i said, it sucks at the track, but on the street its pretty fast, ive taken a few cars in the low 12s, and and evo running flat 12s, i beat a 6.0 camaro with mild cam, headers, exhaust, my friend has a ss that dynoed 36xhp, then got a nitrous tune, which he said would drop his hp, with the nitrous tune he ran a 12.6, not spraying, before his nitrous tune i would beat him by like 3 cars and pulling. I was also told my mph is high for 13s. they would tell me that i needed traction, but my car doesnt spin at all, even if i tried.

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    you can get a choppy idle/lope even with a small cam if its got a smaller lsa than stock, like a 112lsa instead of a stock 116lsa.
    stock motor with a 3,000 rpm stall can drop a 1/2second in the 1/4mile. I'm running a relativly small cam (220/224 .570/.580 lift on a 112lsa) and wouldn't think of driving it with the stock stall.
    if you can't findout any info on the cam from the previous owner, and since it is drivable with the stock stall, I'd go with a 3,000-3,500 rpm stall

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    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    Hey Bert,
    What's up? Haven't seen ya post in a while
    Just a little info.... a stall's gonna hurt your milage as much as a gear
    but yeah your car def. needs a converter Like Mark said w/your cam
    3400-3600 would great and still DD

  6. #6
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Your trap speed tells me it's making some HP which leads me to believe someone put a decent little cam in there. Especially since you are doing that with only a 2.73 gear.
    Your ET is slow for the trap speed because the combination is mismatched at the moment. That MPH is good for an easy 11.70 or better with the right converter and gear.

    That cam needs a converter in the worst way, and generally in an auto a converter is nearly a necessity when a cam with alot of overlap is used. That thing must want to drive right through the brakes.

    From there it's going to want some gear as well. I know you don't like the idea but I would at the very least look for a 3.23 or 3.42 geared complete rearend and just swap the whole rearend in there. Thats the easiest and cheapest way to do it if you want to keep it near stock gas mileage levels. And you always have the option of switching it back without much hassle if you desire. Putting a converter in isn't going to help the mileage anyway so you may as well do the gears too.

    Keep in mind the converter you choose will feel and drive around a little looser if you keep those 2.73 gears because the motor has to work a little harder to push the car around, causing you to drive into the converter a bit more. Actually a little more rear gear could help the mileage a bit depending on how you drive it.
    My opinion without knowing the camshaft specs I would shoot for a converter in the 3500 range but it would be best to call a converter manufacture and give the weight of the car and any other specs you can answer as well as what the car is currently doing. They can steer you in the right direction.

  7. #7
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    That cam needs a converter in the worst way, and generally in an auto a converter is nearly a necessity when a cam with alot of overlap is used. That thing must want to drive right through the brakes.
    i was really supprised today after i did more data logging\tuning with my cam i now have my hot idle set down to 750 rpm.....but i still i am a big fan of a 3,000 stall behind a stock ls1, so with a good tune i could see how you "could" drive around with a stock converter....but i wouldn't want to

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    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    pewter
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRANS-DAD View Post
    Hey Bert,
    What's up? Haven't seen ya post in a while
    Just a little info.... a stall's gonna hurt your milage as much as a gear
    but yeah your car def. needs a converter Like Mark said w/your cam
    3400-3600 would great and still DD
    whats up bud?, hmm i was told the conveter had a lock-up mechanism that would make run like stock????

  9. #9
    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    pewter
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    I only drive the car on the weekends, and some weeknights, i drive maybe 100mi a week, good for a full tank, i think because it needs a tune BAD, on the highway though i get 25+mpg, but if the stall will affect the mileage then ill probably consider gears also, and its true about the brakes, i took it to a mechanic and he said it was normal because the cam, something about the compression that it took away from the brake booster, something like that, thanks for the help guys alot of good info.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    i was really supprised today after i did more data logging\tuning with my cam i now have my hot idle set down to 750 rpm.....but i still i am a big fan of a 3,000 stall behind a stock ls1, so with a good tune i could see how you "could" drive around with a stock converter....but i wouldn't want to
    Yep you are right. I've had carbed cars in here with choppy cams and converters that were too tight. You can tinker with the tune and get it to idle in gear but it's kinda unpleasant to drive.
    I generally have to throw alot of initial advance in it ,,,quite a bit of vacuum advance on top of it,,,,and fatten up the idle circuits to make it happy.

  11. #11
    Lookin for a race 99HuggerOrangeZ's Avatar
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    Like stated before, the stall will hurt your mpg.

    My car was basically stock and I was getting 22-25mpg all day everyday no matter how hard I drove it. I put the stall, headers, ORY and cutout in and my mileage went down to 17-18 mpg. I have even gotten as bad as 15mpg on a tank.

    I'm gonna put 3.42's in this spring and see what it does to the mileage then.
    99 Hugger Orange Z28 A4 3.42's
    Mod's SLP Cold Air Intake, Pacesetter LT's, ORY, Electric Cut-out, Magnaflow Exhaust, Vig. 3200 Stall, Spohn LCA's, UMI SFC's, 17x9.5 and 18x10.5 Black Z06 Motorsports

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    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    Hey Burt,
    yeah the converter will lock up but with your gear it will flash a little
    more to get in the right rpm range to lock up.
    actually it would prob. drive more like stock w/ 3.42 0r 3.73 behind a 3600 stall

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Im thinking the car is stalled already and the gentleman just doesnt know it.
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

  14. #14
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99HuggerOrangeZ View Post
    Like stated before, the stall will hurt your mpg.

    My car was basically stock and I was getting 22-25mpg all day everyday no matter how hard I drove it. I put the stall, headers, ORY and cutout in and my mileage went down to 17-18 mpg. I have even gotten as bad as 15mpg on a tank.

    I'm gonna put 3.42's in this spring and see what it does to the mileage then.
    Damn thats a huge drop. Mine only lost 2 mpg in city driving when I stuck the 3,400 stall in it. Thats with the stock camshaft and stock 3.23 gears, it drives around town pretty loose but it still didn't hit me on gas mileage that hard. I already had the headers and off road Y-pipe in place.

    I went from 22 mpg around town to 20 mpg driving sensibly.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    Im thinking the car is stalled already and the gentleman just doesnt know it.
    I'm wondering the same thing,,since he mentioned it doesn't have a tune either.
    How in the world that thing would even idle with a camshaft like that without a tune is beyond me,,,and even with a tune it would be questionable without a loose converter.

  16. #16
    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    2001 T/A VERT.

    NO I've seen this car at a meet and sounds realy nasty but idle's high in park and drop in gear.... boom almost dies and try's to push through brakes! soo def. no stall

    Oh on the flip ... from 50mph roll the thing a BEAST!!

  17. #17
    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    2002 camaro

    thanks for all the input, i think im gonna hold off on the nitrous then, for now, and go with gears, stall, and tune, i think 3.73s, how can i find out who was/were the previous owners?

  18. #18
    Member bertt23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRANS-DAD View Post
    NO I've seen this car at a meet and sounds realy nasty but idle's high in park and drop in gear.... boom almost dies and try's to push through brakes! soo def. no stall

    Oh on the flip ... from 50mph roll the thing a BEAST!!
    hey bud been out to any meets lately?

  19. #19
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRANS-DAD View Post
    NO I've seen this car at a meet and sounds realy nasty but idle's high in park and drop in gear.... boom almost dies and try's to push through brakes! soo def. no stall

    Oh on the flip ... from 50mph roll the thing a BEAST!!
    Sounds pretty typical of a large cam in a car with no stall. High idle speed in park just to get the darn thing to somewhat idle in gear. Makes for a real pain to drive.

    Thats why I was skeptical.

  20. #20
    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bertt23 View Post
    hey bud been out to any meets lately?
    NOPE!! My son's sports have tied up all my weekends lately!!

    bunch of tha same guys doin a run on the 28th, I'll try to find out
    more info and PM you

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