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Roller rocker question

This is a discussion on Roller rocker question within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; here's a car not on the ls1tech list that runs 9.80 @ 136 last i heard. guess what? he uses ...

  1. #41
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    here's a car not on the ls1tech list that runs 9.80 @ 136 last i heard. guess what? he uses crane 1.8 rockers.


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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    as i said 1.8 rockers limit cam choice.
    you cannot use the most popular cam out there and top top it off, by todays standards, its small.
    so do 1.7 rockers. it was the cam you picked that limited you, not the rockers.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    here's a car not on the ls1tech list that runs 9.80 @ 136 last i heard. guess what? he uses crane 1.8 rockers.

    Click for full size
    whats his mod list??
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    whats his mod list??
    who cares? point is you just said nobody bothers with vinci/crane or slp rockers. his name is john reese. look it up.
    Last edited by mrr23; 09-09-2007 at 10:03 AM.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    so do 1.7 rockers. it was the cam you picked that limited you, not the rockers.
    1.7 rockers do not limit all the popular grinds out there like the magic stick and gx series of cams.
    1.8 rockers would and you know it.

    guess you can say the cam i picked limited my choice with cams, but personally i didnt want to get a small low lift cam.

    what i should of done was listened to others when they said not to bother with using 1.8 rockers.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    1.7 rockers do not limit all the popular grinds out there like the magic stick and gx series of cams.
    1.8 rockers would and you know it.

    guess you can say the cam i picked limited my choice with cams, but personally i didnt want to get a small low lift cam.

    what i should of done was listened to others when they said not to bother with using 1.8 rockers.
    again, it's only because you wanted a 'popular' cam on the market. not what would compliment what you already have. you wanted to follow the herd.

    and again, so long as you have proper piston to valve clearance and spring control, there are no limits. it's not the rockers. it's the springs and pistons that get in the way.

    you want the magic stick to fit with 1.8 rockers, then you get the proper springs and do what it takes to clear the pistons and valves. again, it's not the rockers that limit you.

    you think NHRA and NASCAR teams with 1.9 and 2.0 ratio rockers go "well we can't use the rockers because the cam won't let us." ? they keep the rockers. maybe they know something that us commoners don't.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    again, it's only because you wanted a 'popular' cam on the market. not what would compliment what you already have. you wanted to follow the herd.

    and again, so long as you have proper piston to valve clearance and spring control, there are no limits. it's not the rockers. it's the springs and pistons that get in the way.

    you want the magic stick to fit with 1.8 rockers, then you get the proper springs and do what it takes to clear the pistons and valves. again, it's not the rockers that limit you.

    you think NHRA and NASCAR teams with 1.9 and 2.0 ratio rockers go "well we can't use the rockers because the cam won't let us." ? they keep the rockers. maybe they know something that us commoners don't.
    heres my point plain and simple,
    cam kit that will make 40 rwhp= about $700
    1.8 rockers arms that make 15 rwhp max = $670

    those nhra and nascar cars flycut the pistons, just about none of the guys on this forum want to do that simply because of the cost involved.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    heres my point plain and simple,
    cam kit that will make 40 rwhp= about $700
    1.8 rockers arms that make 15 rwhp max = $670

    those nhra and nascar cars flycut the pistons, just about none of the guys on this forum want to do that simply because of the cost involved.
    again with the money thing. i'll never disagree that going the cam only route is cheaper.

    here's a thought. you ever think some people don't want a cam? or, don't want the added costs associated with doing a cam. tuning is the biggest added cost of doing a cam. rockers, don't need a tune.

    who are you to say none of the guys on this forum want to flycut pistons? maybe they do, so they can achieve what they desire. don't make decisions for them. give them the information and let them decided what they want to do.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    again with the money thing. i'll never disagree that going the cam only route is cheaper.

    here's a thought. you ever think some people don't want a cam? or, don't want the added costs associated with doing a cam. tuning is the biggest added cost of doing a cam. rockers, don't need a tune.

    who are you to say none of the guys on this forum want to flycut pistons? maybe they do, so they can achieve what they desire. don't make decisions for them. give them the information and let them decided what they want to do.
    who are you to say people want to flycut?
    look at the amount of posts here about that, lol.
    unless your looking to squeeze every last h.p out of a car, a person isnt going to flycut because of the cost.
    the associated cost of flycutting is way more than tuning a cam.

    lets talk about decisions for a second. i dont plug one companies product like you. i give the exact oppsite opinion from you. with my posts, ill give another option that you wont because of your bias with vinci.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    if they don't want to flycut, they decide on a different cam. or, as you did, different rockers. they can still use full roller 1.7 rockers. there are plenty of cams that hit the pistons with 1.7 rockers. what do you do then?

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    piston to valve clearance. you cant get moderate and above cams with a 1.8 rocker arm unless you fly cut the piston.
    then what category is my cam? 232/240? i would say a moderate cam. and i have 1.8 rockers.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    then what category is my cam? 232/240? i would say a moderate cam. and i have 1.8 rockers.
    whats the rest of the specs of the cam and you didnt flycut??

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    if they don't want to flycut, they decide on a different cam. or, as you did, different rockers. they can still use full roller 1.7 rockers. there are plenty of cams that hit the pistons with 1.7 rockers. what do you do then?
    safe to say most wont order above cam.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    safe to say most wont order above cam.
    pretty much. but the rockers didn't limit them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    whats the rest of the specs of the cam and you didnt flycut??

    DUR @ .004" 294* / 302*
    DUR @ .050" 232*/ 240*
    LIFT .551/.551
    OVERLAP 64*
    LSA 117*

    and no, because this is in my 408 motor with correct pistons.

    but, this cam will fit in a 346 with stock pistons and 1.8 rockers.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    and more on this 1.8 rockers limit you cam choices. when using the TREX and sTRoker cams here's what it says under each one
    http://thunderracing.com/catalog/?ac...id=88&pcid=122

    Due to the extreme nature of this camshaft, piston to valve clearance must be verified when using modified cylinder heads.
    again, it's not the rockers that limit your cam choice. it's the valve events and ramp rates that determine it, along with the pistons and springs.

    even though thunder racing says it's not reccommended to use 1.8 rockers, i bet you can, so long as you have a spring that can control the valvetrain.

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    Can anyone explain what flycutting the piston is?
    Vote for Pedro.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns00Z28 View Post
    Can anyone explain what flycutting the piston is?
    flycutting the pistons is where you cut a notch into the piston tops to allow more clearance for the valves.

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    Great discussion BTW.

    I agree and disagree with both parties here. I do not think I would go with higher ratio rockers IF I had the car. Because of the expense alone.

    But, I also agree that is has so much to do with valve events. Especially intake valve closing. Duration also has a great deal in choosing a cam for accelerated rockers.

    Let me edit as I think more into it.... exhaust valve closing will matter more in piston to valve clearance seeing how the piston will be "chasing" the valve why its closing. Intake valve has more stability due to the valve spring has greater control over the valve motion.

    John, IF you ever do decide to do rocker arm's and a cam, there are a couple ways of checking it. Dial indictor and the clay method.
    Last edited by Hi-Po; 09-10-2007 at 10:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    flycutting the pistons is where you cut a notch into the piston tops to allow more clearance for the valves.
    Does that affect the compression?

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