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Realistic or dumb?

This is a discussion on Realistic or dumb? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Well the time for a cam swap has finally come, I'll be getting it done in about a month, so ...

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    Realistic or dumb?

    Well the time for a cam swap has finally come, I'll be getting it done in about a month, so now's a good time to start my research. I had previously settled on a 228r 112lsa cam, but the guys from the shop I use are trying to convince me to get a MS3. I love the sound and the powerbound of the MS3, but I feel like it's a dinosaur, especially for a DD. Is a MS3 too much cam for a DD M6, or will I be ok? Also I get about 18mpg in the city as is, how shitty can I expect my mileage to be with this cam? And finally, will I suffer from surge or driveability issues in the occasional stop and go traffic?

    Keep in mind I don't intend on changing the stock gears, heads, or ls1 intake. The car will also receive a dyno tune immediately after the install

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    you're getting into a lot of subjective area here....what some consider a mild cam others do not. Also, a lot of what you're asking will come down to the tune. Since you're an M6 that will give you a little more room for error on a cam as far as how it's going to act in stop and go traffic. I run a 228R on a 114 in my a4 and it's a very streetable set up. My wife can easily drive the car because it really doesn't drive a lot different than it did stock as far as it's manners. Just has more thump to it

    Now for the opinion part of the post. If it were my car I would do an MS3. That's just me though. I would be willing to put up with a little more headache and a little worse gas mileage for the extra HP. Being an M6 is a pretty key point.....it'll make it much easier to drive. Going back to my original point though.....the tune will be important. Also, I would probably start shopping for an LS6 intake. I'm assuming your upgrading the valvetrain right? Springs and pushrods? Don't do the cam unless you do those.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    To add to what Orion stated, I would also highly suggest upgrading the oil pump and timing chain as well.

    Again, tune is everything with a cam install and the car's behavior. A Magic Stick 3 is probably the largest cam I would go on a daily driver.

    That LS1 intake is also going to be a hindrance.
    It's on jackstands.

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    Oh I'll def. be upgrading everything in the valvetrain, I'll be buying one of the TSP cam packages. I will also be picking up a LS6 oil pump and ls2 timing chain. I'm gussing double valve springs are a must with this cam, due to the .603 lift, am I correct? How much power can I expect to have with stock heads and the LS1 intake? And even with a spot on tune, can I still expect surge around the lower rpm band?
    Last edited by LeadFarmer; 08-18-2012 at 07:44 PM.

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    I'd just like someone who has this cam and uses it as DD to chime in and give their opinion

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    If I were doing a cam swap I would do an intake swap with a ls6 or Fast intake. The ls1 intake will really restrict airflow, I don't think you will be happy with the gains. Sure you will have gains but not nearly as much as you would with a better intake manifold.

    And I would get dual springs anything over. 600 lift.
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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    If I were doing a cam swap I would do an intake swap with a ls6 or Fast intake. The ls1 intake will really restrict airflow, I don't think you will be happy with the gains. Sure you will have gains but not nearly as much as you would with a better intake manifold.

    And I would get dual springs anything over. 600 lift.
    ^^^ I agree. Your engine is a big air pump so you need to move more air in and out and you have a bottleneck with the LS1 intake. The LS6 intake will bolt right in and you will lose the EGR. It's a two for one improvement.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

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    Senior Member tatertot91's Avatar
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    Personally for a dd i'd try and find a more suitable medium. torquer 2, f13, something in that range
    Thats just me

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    As far as an intake goes, that will eventually be upgraded, but for now i'm gonna stick with the ls1. I can't rationalize spending 1k on an intake, and if I'm gonna swap out my ls1 for something else I don't wanna buy something that looks exactly like it(the ls6) so I'd probably go with a typhoon or something.

    Now for the cam, I looked at the torquer v2 for awhile, but I don't wanna end up getting a cam and then a few months down the road wish I would've gone bigger. As long as I get close to 400rwhp after the tune, i'll be happy.

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    They may look the same, but the flow rate of the LS6 is superior to that of the LS1 intake. You can pick one up for around $300 so it won't kill the pocket book. I'd take the LS6 over what you've listed also.

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    They may look the same, but the flow rate of the LS6 is superior to that of the LS1 intake. You can pick one up for around $300 so it won't kill the pocket book. I'd take the LS6 over what you've listed also.
    ^^^ What Jon said. 300 bucks and some new gaskets will get you on the road with an LS6 intake. You will not get 400 rwhp without changing that manifold unless you use a power added. When you modify an engine you have to match everything such as cam, heads, intake, exhaust, gearing and so on. What you want to do is put a 390 cfm carb on a BBC engine. It will work but not the way you want.

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    I agree with Jon also but have something to add. Between the two intakes this is my opinion: typhoon < Ls6 intake. I had it and sold it and bought a FAST 102. I got it to work but I had to work at it the thing weighs so much too. I had to take it off 5 or 6 times to get it right. I had to use rtv every where there was a chance air could get by. The main issue was sealing to the heads their gaskets are shitty paper gaskets. To me if I did it again and it was between the ls6 and the typhoon I would get the ls6. Also you can't use stock fuel rails or tb with the typhoon or at least the one I had. The fuel rails leaked because they weren't the o-ring design but worked and stopped leaking with thread locker.With the ls6 there will be no fitment issues and you can use your stock tb and fuel rails. Btw you could paint it so it doesn't look stock.

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I agree with Jon also but have something to add. Between the two intakes this is my opinion: typhoon < Ls6 intake. I had it and sold it and bought a FAST 102. I got it to work but I had to work at it the thing weighs so much too. I had to take it off 5 or 6 times to get it right. I had to use rtv every where there was a chance air could get by. The main issue was sealing to the heads their gaskets are shitty paper gaskets. To me if I did it again and it was between the ls6 and the typhoon I would get the ls6. Also you can't use stock fuel rails or tb with the typhoon or at least the one I had. The fuel rails leaked because they weren't the o-ring design but worked and stopped leaking with thread locker.With the ls6 there will be no fitment issues and you can use your stock tb and fuel rails. Btw you could paint it so it doesn't look stock.
    Bigger is not always better. That's what I tell my wife. lol

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    :rofl: But seriously I would not buy anything from Professional Products, which is who makes the typhoon. It does flow nice but fitment sucks.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 08-21-2012 at 07:47 AM.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    I can say when I swap to my LS6 intake there was a major difference in butt dyno over the LS1 intake.

    IIRC it has about 30% more volume. More air means more HP. It is pretty much a stock replacement now because after 01 all LS1's came with the LS6 intake.

    I agree for most ppl, a FAST intake is some serious coin to drop on for a DD/week end track car. If I was hardcore racing for $$ then yeah it's justified.

    Only drawl back for the LS6 intake that I haven't seen mention is you will need to do one of two things to install it.

    1) There is a kit called LS6 coolant bypass - goes for about $60. It deletes the coolant tube for the rear side of the cylinders and requires no modification to the intake. Takes about 5 mins to install (after the intake is off).

    2) You can use the LS1 coolant tubing but you will need to grind down the fins on the bottom side of the LS6 intake. Careful not to grind through the base.


    On my car I did one, but I've also did 2 for a buddy's car. Both work. It's comes down what you want to do.

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    yes X10 on the ls6 intake. . . . but anywho i ran the tsp 233/239 wich is very close to the ms3. i ran it in an auto and ss3600 stall and with a somewhat shitty tune and put down 374 rwhp UNLOCKED. SO with the ms3 and 6sp you should have no problem hitting the 400 mark (but that will not happen with the ls1 intake) i had slight surging, but considering you have a 6sp you should not have to worry at all with a good tune. car pulled like a freakin freight train from the instant the converter grabbed.

    here is a short video i made from 30mph

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    Old Member, New Username BrownsMillsAntz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    :rofl: But seriously I would not buy anything from Professional Products, which is who makes the typhoon. It does flow nice but fitment sucks.
    Says who, do you or have you ever had one? If your talking about the sealing issues on the first run of production that was taken care of years ago....I run a 85/85 Typhoon here and never had any problems anywhere...To the op as for the cam, MS3 is fine as long as its tuned good...I run a LG G5x2 on a 114 lsa which is a pretty good size cam and the cars is fine around town.

    Heads/Cam/Intake/Stall.
    404 Rwhp uncorrected @ 6400

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownsMillsAntz View Post

    Says who, do you or have you ever had one? If your talking about the sealing issues on the first run of production that was taken care of years ago....I run a 85/85 Typhoon here and never had any problems anywhere...To the op as for the cam, MS3 is fine as long as its tuned good...I run a LG G5x2 on a 114 lsa which is a pretty good size cam and the cars is fine around town.
    Maybe you should read before you post. Read this:

    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    I agree with Jon also but have something to add. Between the two intakes this is my opinion: typhoon < Ls6 intake. I had it and sold it and bought a FAST 102. I got it to work but I had to work at it the thing weighs so much too. I had to take it off 5 or 6 times to get it right. I had to use rtv every where there was a chance air could get by. The main issue was sealing to the heads their gaskets are shitty paper gaskets. To me if I did it again and it was between the ls6 and the typhoon I would get the ls6. Also you can't use stock fuel rails or tb with the typhoon or at least the one I had. The fuel rails leaked because they weren't the o-ring design but worked and stopped leaking with thread locker.With the ls6 there will be no fitment issues and you can use your stock tb and fuel rails. Btw you could paint it so it doesn't look stock.
    I had the 96mm and I bought it last year new. So it wasn't the "first run of production" as you say I didn't say it wouldn't work and wasn't fine driving when I finally got it to fit right. I said that that the fitment sucked and was a pain to get it to fit.

  19. #19
    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    are there any aftermarket intakes out there around the same price of an ls6 that won't be a headache to install on my own?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Nope.



    BBK goes for around $450

    FAST 90/90 - have stopped being made, ebay/CL are the only way of finding one, go for used $450
    FAST 102 - $1200 + supporting items like 102 TB, new fuel rails, and tuning

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