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Please Advice on UPGRADES.

This is a discussion on Please Advice on UPGRADES. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hey all. I have the engine out of the car and am changing all gaskets and oil seals. My question ...

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    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    Please Advice on UPGRADES.

    Hey all.

    I have the engine out of the car and am changing all gaskets and oil seals.
    My question is.. is there anything thats worth upgrading before i put it back?

    I have been thinking about cam etc, but i have no experience in this, thus i don't know what i need. I don't want it to cost a fortune and i still want to be able to drive the car normally. I don't race with it, but more power is always welcome.

    About cam install. Is the cam itself adding power, or how does it work? Will it make the engine idle crap?
    If i change cam, do i automatically have to change other things as well? Like valve train, pistons, heads etc?
    Will it create a lot of wear on the engine? Are there risks involved?

    Maybe there is something more important than the cam to focus on?

    I don't want to put on a nitrous system yet.

    My current mods are:
    FAST LSx 90mm Intake
    FAST 90mm TB
    FAST Fuel rails
    Air lid
    Headers
    Underdrive pulley
    LS7 Clutch&Pressure plate

    All help is much appreciated.
    Thank you

    PS. I shop mostly from ws6store.com, so i would be happy if you could point me to their products/website for examples on what to get.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    wow, talk about a wide open question I'm getting ready for bed and I'm sure several people will reply to this as far as doing a cam and heads. I would recommend it. There's virtually a cam setup out there for everyones needs. The main thing I wanted to point out to you was to replace your rod bolts while you have the engine out. As long as the motors out why not replace one of the weaker links while you're at it. It's cheap insurance.

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    Member Mr. Hyde's Avatar
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    A cam is worth about 30/35 HP, but it is not a simple install. You will need supporting upgrades like chromy pushrods, stronger valve springs, possibly new lifters and retainers, plus the thought of a double row chain too. If you want it to NOT have a crappy idle, then stick with a somewhat mild cam...such as a 224-224 with a LSA of no less than 114. Not a bunch more HP, but if you're going to think about a cam swap, now's the time. I'd personally go with something a little bigger. Take a look at www.compcam.com
    Their XR series is a place to start. Maybe a XR with 212/218-522/529 @114 LSA would suit you. Good luck, I went with the XR281HR

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    I'd do the oil-pump for sure and possibly the timing chain while you have it apart. You might as well do at least a cam to take advantage of the FAST intake...

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    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    So, to sum it up, i've found a few components.

    98-02 Comp Cams Xtreme RPM 212/218 - 355$
    98-02 LS1 SLP Heavy Duty Oil Pump/Timing Chain Package - 315,99$
    98-02 Comp Cams "RPM" Valvetrain Upgrade Kit(Second kit) - 441,99$
    98-02 Comp Cams High Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifters - 193,99$

    Total will be 1306,97$.

    Questions:
    1. Is this the correct items, and do they all fit together?

    2. Why is it a good idea to change the oil pump?

    3. Do i need new lifters?

    4. My major headache is the choice of cam.
    It says "212/218 duration with .522/.529 lift and 114 LS. Good torque and very strong mid-range power. Good overall performance cam. 1200-6000 RPM operating range." for the one im looking at. Does anyone have any experience with this particular cam? Will idle be OK?

    5. On some cams it says "Computer modifications needed".. Is that needed for this cam?

    6. Is it too mild? Will it even notice over the stock cam? Is there any point spending all that money.. Will there be any bang for the buck?

    Thanks for all your feedback! Much appreciated!

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    Preferred Member CWW17's Avatar
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    I dont have any advice... but I do have a suggestion! If that is you in your avatar you need to post more pictures like it!

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    1.)
    for valvetrain upgrade you could save about $45 and go with
    Patriot Extremes Kit: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $275
    comp cams chromeloly pushrods: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $119

    for timing chain and pump you could save about $150 and go with
    LS6 oil pump: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $95
    LS2 timing chaing (all you need-double is way more than you need) http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $38
    oil pump Oring http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $4.30
    water pump gasket 2 each http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $2.50
    Front cover crankshaft seal http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $17
    Front cover Gasket http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $20

    2.)
    Personally I would suggest change the oil pump since you are in there, adds reliability.

    3.)
    your lifters should be fine, so that would save you another $194

    4.)
    that is a baby cam, but none the less you should notice some performance boost, and should be allright without a tune, but a tune would help you quite a bit with all the mods you currently have plus these. If you can get a tune then maybe go a little bigger with a cam

    5.)
    computer tuning always, ok almost always, helps especially given what you allready have plus what you are considering adding.

    6.)
    Again, you should feel an extra boost in performance, especially since you allready have the 90/90 setup, you prolly aren't gaining from that yet, but with any cam you will start picking up from even the 90/90 setup. So yeah you will notice a difference when you get her back together.


    Or if you really wanted to notice quite a difference you could go for something like this http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a, but you would def. need a tune at that point

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    OH YEAH,

    and an F-Body representing in Sweden WORLDWIDE BABY!!!





    Quote Originally Posted by CWW17 View Post
    I dont have any advice... but I do have a suggestion! If that is you in your avatar you need to post more pictures like it!



  9. #9
    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    Wow thanks Tace02 for your effort!!
    Exactly what i wanted!

    The items that you provided me with comes up to a total of 845$, which is a lot less! That is great!

    The patriot head/cam kit is abit too much for my economy, and i just want a little more power.. i hope at least these items can provide me with something.

    1. I was looking at this cam as an alternative: Comp Cams Xtreme RPM 216/220 Do you think it will be "too much"?
    It says in the text that it is for a LS1 with computer modifications. What exactly does that mean? Will the engine break if i dont have that?

    2. Im proud to be representing F-Body over here Tho, i have checked around and it seems there will be a problem to get a tune. According to Trans AM Club of Sweden, there is no one that does it here. Is there any way of doing this myself? Does it have to cost a fortune?

    3. Orion said something about rod bolts, but im not sure where i can get this. Should they just be replaced with stock bolts, or are there higher quality ones that is better suited for the job?

    4. Will the cam install be bad for my engine and make alot of wear compared to the stock one, if driving conditions are the same?

    5. I heard some talk about "Ported LS6 oil pump"... is that something i need?

    6. Since i have not owned this car from its birth i cannot swear that the cam currently in the engine is stock. Is there any way of telling if that is the case or not by looking at it?

    Thank you

  10. #10
    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    That cam won't be too much, if anything, afterwards you might think it was too small. You need to get the car tuned with just about any cam to get the full potential out of it as the stock fuel and spark maps aren't optimized for any aftermarket cam so you will need "computer modifications" or a tune. Being in Sweden I have no clue if you have someone local able to tune the computer or not. If not you need to get either HPTuners, EFILive, or LSEdit to be able to do it yourself. It won't break your engine but it won't run to its full potential and with that small a cam you might not notice much. However your intake is huge for a stock engine and will beg for a cam.

    Rod bolts you can find at any supplier of parts. Wherever you got your intake from should sell them. If not Jegs, summit racing, and most of the supporters of this site will carry them .

    As long as your valve springs, pushrods, and oil pump are replaced with units that are spec'd for them there will be no more wear and tear than your stockers with that cam. Use that cam on stock valvesprings and yes but with the ones you looked at they should be good.

    Ported LS6 pump is a pump that supplies more oil at a higher pressure and will ensure the proper oiling on your car for years to come and you have to remove the stocker to change the cam so go ahead and replace it now.

    You'd have to look at the front of it and see what stampings are on it.

  11. #11
    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    I am kind of starting to think that this cam might not be enough aswell. The one thing im sure of is that I dont want a car that doesnt have any go until 6000 rpm. I'd like the power to be spread out evenly across the normal rpm range and run pretty OK at idle.

    What would you recommend? Would this be more up to the task or still too little? Comp Cams Xtreme RPM 224/228

    I dont really have the funds to change heads. How bad is it to leave the stock heads on? What are the pros/cons?

  12. #12
    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    a 224/224 cam or a 228/228 cam would be more ideal for what you're looking for...

    i have a 224/224 .581/.581@112lsa in my car currently. click on the links in my sig and you will see/hear some video clips, as well as the specific mods i have done to my car thus far...
    2000 SS - The Wicked Witch: °°Cammed 'n Slammed°° 458rwhp/410rwtq
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    I was hoping to just hump her up the exhaust cause she is so damn sexy....
    "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    Another idea for you, instead of buying the cam and valvetrain from ws6store, how bout save another $40,
    instead of this:
    for valvetrain upgrade you could save about $45 and go with
    Patriot Extremes Kit: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $275
    comp cams chromeloly pushrods: http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...0cf65293d9f10a $119
    Comp Cams Xtreme RPM 224/228 $355
    total= $749


    http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...&vid=3&pcid=51
    ck out P/N: CAMPK-PG available options: valvesprings---Patriot Gold Valvesprings and cam---99 TR224/224-112 (224/224 duration .563/.563 lift 112LSA) looks to be a very nice package.
    it comes with everything for $709

    you could then use that last $40 and not buy the LS6 oil pump on ws6store and buy the ported LS6 pump at Thunder Racing for $149.95:
    http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...&vid=3&pcid=83

    Not to mention, with Thunder Racing, just like a lot of other speed shops, you can mail in your computer to them and they can set it for you so that your car will run fine. Mail order tunes are not uncommon. Check out some of there other cams, they have a very nice selection and I have heard many good things about their cams esp. the 224s. You can have them raise your rev limiter to 6500 and get the most out of the cam.

    And for connecting rod bolts, they match ws6store on the ARP High-Performance LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts, and are $18 cheaper for the ARP Pro-Series LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts $80-$100

    Sorry, feel like I am giving you too much info and possibly gonna end of confusing you if I haven't allready...LOL. But I would suggest buying a cam package from a speed shop and doing a mail order tune with them, to get closer to max. performance outta your car. Check out around Thunder Racings site, might find some good deals there. Also if you aren't tooo worried about a phone bill, call them, tell em what you are doing and what you want and they can hook you up.

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    I almost wish I hadn't built up my car yet, I am getting excited just looking up parts....

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    damn tace, nice job.

    candice, pretty much any cam you put in other than stock is gonna want a tune. Since you have the engine out and apart why not do as much as you can do then because it's much easier. I would personally go with a 224 cam if I were you. It sounds about like the cam you're looking for and since it's a top seller and proven cam most mail order tunes should be able to get it pretty close for you and make the car much more street friendly. You can also call or email thunder racing and they can help you match parts and get a nice package together for you. I would recommend calling them and actually talking to someone on the phone although from sweden that might be an expensive call but in the end I think it would be worth it. Typically if you talk to someone at the shops and let them help you put an entire package together you'll get a better price than you would through the site.

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    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    Wow i am overwhelmed Thank you!

    Ok, i will go with these parts that you listed from ThunderRacing Tace02. I will give them a call later, tho my previous experiences with calling USA has been pretty bad with poor connections and the other person speaking very fast..

    Should i get the Patriot Extreme Valvesprings (+20$) instead of the Patriot Gold valvesprings?

    It says "Due to the fast ramp rate of this camshaft, the use of 1.8 rockers is not recommended." about the 224/224 -112 camshaft. What does that mean?

    The mail-order computer tune is probably good, but seeing as these might not be my last mods, i am considering something more permanent. I have read up on the tuning devices and found that HPTuners seems to be very popular. I checked their website and it seems to be a very nice interface with lots of features! Just being able to check for troublecodes on my own will be great, thats something i have to pay 80$ for every time here. However i do realize that it is a complex application and will take time to learn, which i am ready to spend.

    What would you say? Is it a good idea or will it be impossible for me to get it right on my own? Is it possible to take data from the program and ask for help here?

    I cant decide whether to go with Pro or Standard version.. I wont need to have the black box data logging feature since i carry my laptop around all the time anyway. But will i need the other feature "EGT, wide band, fuel pressure sensor" scanner?

    Also one more thing.. I have removed the EGR from the car. Will it be possible to delete it from the PCM with HPTuners to get rid of the SES light?

    Thanks again for all help!!
    I cant wait to get it all back together and turn the key!

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    Member 2001hawk's Avatar
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    Talk about walking into a conversation late. I would have almost suggested waiting to do the cam until doing the heads, but then you said this may be the end of your mods. I don't know about HPtuners but I know LS1edit will allow you to turn off the EGR codes, I am sure it will though. I would call the customer service numbers and talk to CompCams and Lunati. They should be able to give you the full rundown on any questions you have. I have the numbers here at home if you want them.

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    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candice View Post
    Wow i am overwhelmed Thank you!
    No Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Candice View Post
    Should i get the Patriot Extreme Valvesprings (+20$) instead of the Patriot Gold valvesprings?
    No, Patriot Dual "GOLD" will be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candice View Post
    It says "Due to the fast ramp rate of this camshaft, the use of 1.8 rockers is not recommended." about the 224/224 -112 camshaft. What does that mean?
    DO NOT buy 1.8 rockers, stick with stock size 1.7



    Quote Originally Posted by Candice View Post
    Also one more thing.. I have removed the EGR from the car. Will it be possible to delete it from the PCM with HPTuners to get rid of the SES light?
    As far as I know, yes. Maybe start out though with a mail order tune, then get the HPTuner, that way if you mess up somewhere you can take it back to the original mail order tune and start over. But whatever you do, when messing with the Air/Fuel ratio, don't go above 14, u start to lean it out and that can cause predetonation (bad BOOM-not good). Most tunes I have seen try to stay anywhere between 12.5-13.2.

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    Garage Intensity Candice's Avatar
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    I just got off the phone with Todd at Thunder Racing!

    He told me the 224/224 112LSA camshaft will be a very good choice.
    Basically he just confirmed that all the rest are very good choices aswell.

    He did however suggest i get new lifters because the engine has 80k miles on it. Just for insurance.

    About the tune - it is probably best doing what you're saying.. To first get a mail-order tune, then work from there with HPTuner. But it costs so much money...

    I will keep doing some research.

    My questions for this thread has been answered with excellence!
    Lots of creds to all of you for leading me onto the right path

    Take care!

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    Preferred Member CWW17's Avatar
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    no more pictures then?

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