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Patriot heads and cam feedback?

This is a discussion on Patriot heads and cam feedback? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I've been wondering about PP heads myself. The price tag is tempting. And I'm sure that they are good heads ...

  1. #21
    RED98WS6
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    I've been wondering about PP heads myself. The price tag is tempting. And I'm sure that they are good heads for the money. But some of the guys over at ls1tech.com are putting down 430...440...and even 450 at the wheels with the AFR 205 mongoose heads. I have yet to see PP heads get numbers even close to those. Forget flow numbers, as far as I'm concerned, they are meaningless.

  2. #22
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED98WS6
    I've been wondering about PP heads myself. The price tag is tempting. And I'm sure that they are good heads for the money. But some of the guys over at ls1tech.com are putting down 430...440...and even 450 at the wheels with the AFR 205 mongoose heads. I have yet to see PP heads get numbers even close to those. Forget flow numbers, as far as I'm concerned, they are meaningless.
    Yes...some get all caught up in who's heads flow better than others and you are correct...that is not the sole determining factor...Rhino brought up a point that I have observed myself....Patriot's finished product is second to none in quality.....

  3. #23
    RED98WS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge
    Yes...some get all caught up in who's heads flow better than others and you are correct...that is not the sole determining factor...Rhino brought up a point that I have observed myself....Patriot's finished product is second to none in quality.....

    I might take a closer look at the PP heads. It sounds like they've come a long way in quality. I just wish someone would post up some graphs of what these heads will do...

  4. #24
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED98WS6
    I might take a closer look at the PP heads. It sounds like they've come a long way in quality. I just wish someone would post up some graphs of what these heads will do...
    I've got my dyno runs from last wek posted up here on ls1.com in the nitrous section....I posted N/A and on the juice....hell...email ol Gunnar...tell him you want charts/graphs and overheads....I don't blame you one bit.....here is Gunnars email.....tell him ol Sarge said howdy... Gunnar@Patriot-Performance.com

  5. #25
    seriousblack
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    Flow numbers are important to me. I need to consider getting the most performance @ the track without sacrificing Driveability for street duty l I.E. low end & Mid range Torque & Power. The AFR Mongoose heads sounds like a winner to me !! Thanks brother

  6. #26
    Rhino21149
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    You talk about serious numbers -- Just remember that what started this thread was talk about an article where a patrio heads a and cam package delivered over 520 plus.

    When you hear of other people who get a lot less you have to ask just what they had Patriot do: like almost all these companies, they sell various levels of head work porting along with stock or upgraded valve size and some of those lesser quoted #s might be for the lower cost heads or where the owner went with some other cam than recommended.

  7. #27
    seriousblack
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    I understand and agree i.e. Stage I, II, III Heads. It all boils down to what the car will be used for and how much power you want to make within whatever parameters you set. AND HOW MUCH CASH $$$$ you have.......

  8. #28
    Rhino21149
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    You know, while it really is all about money, you can find bargains. I spent more than my ZO6 cost new on the supercharged 427 C5R I put in it -- and a year of hassles that caused me to nearly give up a couple of times until I got it sorted out so it would behave like a real car. I went top grade everywhere and just never even thought of short cuts. On the other hand, nothing as civilized and streetable can touch it, and I love it now that its done (but there were times I was sure mad as hell).

    But my son and I have less than $15 in the FE 408 in our 98 Camaro and the engine is putting down 600 RWHP with only a 75-100 shot of nitrous and we haven't really tapped into it. This is much more the hot rod spirit- try to get the most bang for the buck.

    One thing I do believe is: ask the manufacturer and stick with his recommendations. Crowler made most of my internals and ended up making a custom grind cam for me that did wonders.

    I figure Patriot probably knows hows to spend your money well if you ask . . . the mistake would be to buy and mix and match yourself -- they have to know more than you. So if you go that route, I'd tell them what you want and then follow what they tell you.

  9. #29
    RED98WS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousblack
    I understand and agree i.e. Stage I, II, III Heads. It all boils down to what the car will be used for and how much power you want to make within whatever parameters you set. AND HOW MUCH CASH $$$$ you have.......

    Or as someone pointed out above, how much cash do you want to spend and not necessarily how much you have. For me, drag racing is all about getting more bang for your buck.

  10. #30
    RED98WS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousblack
    Flow numbers are important to me. I need to consider getting the most performance @ the track without sacrificing Driveability for street duty l I.E. low end & Mid range Torque & Power. The AFR Mongoose heads sounds like a winner to me !! Thanks brother

    I guess what I am saying about flow numbers is that I don't trust them, especially if they are from the head manufacturer regardless of their reputation. I pay more attention to dyno charts than anything. And even that can be misleading...

  11. #31
    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED98WS6
    I guess what I am saying about flow numbers is that I don't trust them, especially if they are from the head manufacturer regardless of their reputation. I pay more attention to dyno charts than anything. And even that can be misleading...
    if all things are equal......how can dyno charts be misleading????

  12. #32
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    I've been watching this thread and it's getting pretty popular, for anyone who's interested I'm currently getting Patriot LS6 heads, 59cc on my hawk. I had 346 rwhp on just a cam, ls6 intake, and catback. I'm adding a ported throttle body, headers, and ORY to the setup along with the heads and getting a dyno tune. Will have numbers soon hopefully. The car has been in a shop for 2 weeks now awaiting the arrival of the heads. Money wasn't an issue for me, I could of went with any head and I chose these after seeing how well they've done in the last 6 months. I'll post up the dyno numbers by Saturday if I'm lucky, cross your fingers for me.

  13. #33
    Member JMBLOWNWS6's Avatar
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    Well since I just ordered a set and got them cheaper new for less than 1050 shipped here is my impressions. I needed a 72cc head for my forged 347. I ran into a deal that offered mt free Ross pistons and Free eagle rods. So I did some work for the guy and got all the parts. Now that being said I would have to lower my compression for a blower application. I went ahead a bought the LQ9 patriots stage III with the biggest intake and exhaust valves they offer. Now that fact being I couldnt get a stage 3 head from anyone for less than 2k was a factor. The other 1k goes towards my new fuel system. But for the price and after talking to patriot for a bit I am satisfied that they will perform. Its a two week lead time. But for those who dont have a ton of $ this is a fair deal. Plain and simple. Yes you get what you pay for. Depends on what your goals are.

  14. #34
    Rhino21149
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED98WS6
    I guess what I am saying about flow numbers is that I don't trust them ...:
    .

    I agree. Flow #s are worth paying attention to, but alot of people suddenly seem to be obsessing over them. Flow DOES matter, but so do other things: the amount of swirl (which, by its nature, is hard to get in combination with high flow #s), the amount of flow at small openings (as the valve starts to open and the acceleration of the intake pulse, and the exhaust flow (which people measure but you seldom see anyone worrying about it: on SC applications, particularly those with a Roots or Screw (positive displacement) type blower, it matters a lot more since the intake WILL flow, regardless of its limits.

    If it was just about flow, then when you get the AFR heads, get the big port (225): They flow test better than the 205. But they give no low end torque in a small block (6 liters or less).

    It's also worth considering that nearly everyone is taking each manufacturer's word for their flow #s. Who knows if, how, and how well they tested them? Tests and testing methods vary, and flow testing not something that every shop can do, and certainly not a test that is easy to repeat consistently at different sites run by different technicians. One man's 335 might be anothers 322.

  15. #35
    seriousblack
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    Thanks for the suggestion re; Contacting the manufacturer (Good Idea) I'll call SLP and ask them what heads (if they have a preference and port volumes they recomend using for the cam I installed from them. I remember them telling me the particular cam I ordered required modified heads -Thanks

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  17. #37
    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadSeason
    I've been watching this thread and it's getting pretty popular, for anyone who's interested I'm currently getting Patriot LS6 heads, 59cc on my hawk. I had 346 rwhp on just a cam, ls6 intake, and catback. I'm adding a ported throttle body, headers, and ORY to the setup along with the heads and getting a dyno tune. Will have numbers soon hopefully. The car has been in a shop for 2 weeks now awaiting the arrival of the heads. Money wasn't an issue for me, I could of went with any head and I chose these after seeing how well they've done in the last 6 months. I'll post up the dyno numbers by Saturday if I'm lucky, cross your fingers for me.
    Well the results are in, with a starting point of
    346 RWHP and 323 Torque I gained 69HP and 68 Torque Netting
    415 RWHP and 391 Torque

    I'm pretty satisfied considering it was a 91 degree day in the shop and I didn't get to pick the cam out, it came in the car when I bought it. It's the SLP 51013, not the newest but gets the job done along with my purchase of the Patriot Heads (LS6 2.02 1.57 59CC 11:1) and Hooker Headers I'd say it's a pretty nice gain. The A/F is spot on and power under the curve is awesome. Sure does feel good even with the stock gears.

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