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Patriot heads and cam feedback?

This is a discussion on Patriot heads and cam feedback? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Has anybody heard anything about the patriot performance cam and head set up in the december '04 issue of chevy ...

  1. #1
    Member SKULLZ's Avatar
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    Red face Patriot heads and cam feedback?

    Has anybody heard anything about the patriot performance cam and head set up in the december '04 issue of chevy high performance? The articel boasts 522 hp and 466tq at the fly wheel. I was curious what rwhp i would be looking at, I figured the 15-20% loss but was looking for some real world numbers. Sorry i couldnt find the link to the articel.


    Thanks

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I'm running Pat heads and comp cam setup...putting down over 400 to the wheels....I know they are having a helluva sale right now.....damn fine folks at Patriot and great product.....
    http://ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288

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    Member SKULLZ's Avatar
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    Thanks Sarge, what kind of intake manifold are you using with your set up? Did you go to a bigger throttle body as well?

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    LSX Fast Intake and Shaner Ported TB (to be picked up tommorow).....

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    Member SKULLZ's Avatar
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    cool set up, thanks Sarge

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    Senior Member MadSeason's Avatar
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    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...148_0504_test/ I think this is the article you were looking at

  7. #7
    seriousblack
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    Question

    New to this; Anybody out there have any technical expertise in regards to Performance heads and flow numbers vs. Driveabilty-my car is used for street/strip duty. I'm contemplating buying the new GMPP LS6 "CNC" Ported Heads part # 88958665, they have the same port volumes as their Race only heads; 250cc Intake/ 85cc Exhaust "BUT" they maintain the stock production 65cc Chambers @ 10.5:1compression ratio. I currently have an SLP Cam .576/571" lift, 234/228 @ .050 duration w/113 LSA with Comp Cams Valvetrain upgrades; Pro-Magnum Roller Rockers, Beehive springs, Titanium retainers,Magnum Pushrods. SLP said I need ported heads to get the full potential of the cam's performance. Thanks in advance!

  8. #8
    Rhino21149
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Z28'99
    The articel boasts 522 hp and 466tq . . . I figured the 15-20% loss but was looking for some real world numbers. Sorry i couldnt find the link to the articel.


    Thanks
    My experience is that F- and Y-bodiues have closer to 11-12% losses to the rear wheels with a 6-speed, about 14% with an automatic.

    I have a set of Patriot IIIs with porting and polishing by Justin Engineering, they were tested in GMHP or some mag at 540 RWHP on a 5.7 liter, at something like 7200 RPM, but that was very very extreme, non street engine.

    I run a Crowler high-ramp custom design/grind cam (they'll design and grind to your spec for undonly about 3 times the cost of a standard cam) that is 228/235-.590/.615, (value timing is designed for a SC) that is a bit more extreme than their standard Stage III. Naturally aspirated, the engine put out 495 RWHP at 6300, but remember that is a 427 cubes.

    I've seen the standard Patriot package deliver 425-445 RWHP depending on other mods, simply as a bolt-on for several C5s (a local shop ran a special, they had about 6 takers) -- which is about 480-495 HP flywheel, al with headers, cats and full cat-back exhaust, and fully street legal.

  9. #9
    seriousblack
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    Cool

    Thanks for the info on the Patriot heads i'll look into those if the LS6 "CNC" Ported heads are too $$$$$ i'm sure they will be alot considering they also have Hollowed stain steel Intake valves and sodium filled exhaust valves.

  10. #10
    Rhino21149
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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousblack
    Thanks for the info on the Patriot heads i'll look into those if the LS6 "CNC" Ported heads are too $$$$$ i'm sure they will be alot considering they also have Hollowed stain steel Intake valves and sodium filled exhaust valves.
    My son has my old '98 Camaro, which I gave him d knows more about cars than I do and frankly I could not keep the Vette at the point it is without his knowledge. He's put in a 408 FE LS6 from Horsepower engineering in Houston, 11/25:1 C.R. that puts out more HP normally aspirated than my C5R did normally asipirated. Not cilvilized or really easy to drive, but brutually efficient.

    He put AFR big-port heads on it instead of the Pat IIIs. They weren't avaialble when I put together my engine -- only the AFR small port heads were available so I went with the Pat IIIs at the time.

    The big-port AFRs for the Ls engines are awesome. I'm not sure that they flow better than the Pat IIIs I have after the Justin Engineering porting, but I think Justin is no longer in business so you can't get them anymore, butthe AFRs have a full 1/2 inch of deck thickness - bulletproof if you supercharger or nitrous, or just worry like I do . . .

    I'd recommend looking at them. They actually cost less than the heads I got by the time I paid for the porting and polishing, too.

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    Pewter Metallic
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    I have always wanted to know about these heads as well, I just put my cam in now I need a set of heads to work with it, might give these guys a call, $1400 for a set of heads is not bad.--Tony

  12. #12
    seriousblack
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    Remember You Get what you pay for $$$$$$ I 've heard of problems with there castings and returns. Check out the AFR LS1 Mongoose Heads @ SpeedInc.com. I don't know the pricing but i am looking into it getting them the flow numbers are impressive.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Just got my heads back from Patriot.
    They did a ton for me. I sent them back to have them milled, and they put new springs on, new bigger valves, and milled them .020".
    Great service, and the heads flow 314/228 at .600". Not bad at all for $1100 I think it is.
    From what I understand, Patriot has had problems in the past, but they have done what they can to correct those problems.
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    Lowered, HID's, tinted.

    1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS.6 #1747 SOLD
    531.1 RWHP 481.3 FT/Pounds all motor.

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    Member silverTA2002's Avatar
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    Patriot heads are a decent head, and a low price leader.

    For $400 more, I decided to go with TEA 1.5 heads. They should be here tomorrow.

    I didn't want to take any chances. TEA always seems to perform. Patriot is kinda hit or miss sometimes.
    2002 Trans Am 6sp, SLP lid, Holley filter, Shaner S3 TB, Jet Hot long tubes and cats, FRA, HP tuners, Hotchkis STB and LCAs. TEA stage 1.5 5.3 heads, Comp 220/224 114 +2, UMI Boxed SFCs, Edelbrock PHR. Moser 9" 4.11 gears.

    **FOR SALE**: http://www.ls1.com/forums/f38/fs-02-silver-t-heads-cam-headers-9-fl-60478/

  15. #15
    seriousblack
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    Thanks for the update -good to know they improved if I decide to go with the Patriots instead of the LS1 Mongoose heads by AFR. Especially if you got them for $1100.00 !!!

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    If I had the money, I would have gone with AFR hands down. Might still someday.....years away.

    They are good heads. The work is good, the customer service is GREAT. For the price, can't be beat.

  17. #17
    seriousblack
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    How do those Head flow numbers effect your car's low end Torque and horsepower for everyday driving? (If you use it as a daily driver)

  18. #18
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos
    Just got my heads back from Patriot.
    They did a ton for me. I sent them back to have them milled, and they put new springs on, new bigger valves, and milled them .020".
    Great service, and the heads flow 314/228 at .600". Not bad at all for $1100 I think it is.
    From what I understand, Patriot has had problems in the past, but they have done what they can to correct those problems.
    So often we forget it is metal. Nothing more. Who sells you the metal the cheapest is so often the "winner".... So when things are not 'right"....customer service is the winner.....Patriot and Gunner has that hands down.....IMHO....

  19. #19
    Awaiting Activation Liquifire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge
    So often we forget it is metal. Nothing more. Who sells you the metal the cheapest is so often the "winner".... So when things are not 'right"....customer service is the winner.....Patriot and Gunner has that hands down.....IMHO....
    I agree with some of what you wrote but would just like to add that although the metal itself may be the same, a lot goes into the assembly and workmanship of the metal. These are moving parts after all, so it isn't as if all heads are exactly the same. Not to mention R+D......fwiw.

  20. #20
    Rhino21149
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    I had really good results with Patriot III heads on my vette, but then although they looked good from Patriot I had them polished by Justin Engineering and then the vale seats checked and chambers cc'd and so forth by the builder: still, I am very satsified with Patriot.

    My son and I have AFR CNC's big-port heads on our Camaro's 408 LS6 and they =are clearly great heads, but as delivered they really needed to be polished to finish them up. The CNC left roughly 1/8 inch flat "ripples" insides of the ports that we have polished and moothed off before mounting them. They fit great and make good #s.

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