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Patriot or Edelbrock

This is a discussion on Patriot or Edelbrock within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; The ad says stock engine... But my understanding of a stock engine is just that. Stock. No aftermarket anything. Once ...

  1. #41
    Member fbodynut's Avatar
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    The ad says stock engine... But my understanding of a stock engine is just that. Stock. No aftermarket anything. Once you bolt something on the engine that didn't come from the factory as stock, then to me your no longer stock.
    That's just my op

  2. #42
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    Sounds correct to me
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I've kind of beat it up here on this site... Ya know it's odd too, out of all of the LSx sites, this one is the ONLY one that carries so much love for patriot heads.

    I don't like them because I have seen their mediocre results first hand.
    Not only that but they just don't perform at the track either. Dare I mention some of the quality issues they've had over the years? I'm not talking about nitpicking stuff here, I'm talking about serious problems like dropped valves, glued in valve guides, "new" heads sent out with .007" head deck variation, VERY POORLY welded chambers, etc etc That's just the crap that I've seen firsthand!

    Although I have no experience with the Edelbrocks, I've seen them up close at their booths. The flow numbers backup the reputation of Edelbrocks head lineup, and the flow numbers look about right for the visual impression they give. Again, like other Edelbrock heads, the quality is great. The flow and power potential, not so great.

    Edit: If you're looking for an inexpensive "budget" head that makes good power without problems look at Texas Speeds PRC line, or the Livernois stuff.
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 04-01-2008 at 11:46 AM.

  4. #44
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    Not only that but they just don't perform at the track either. Dare I mention some of the quality issues they've had over the years? I'm not talking about nitpicking stuff here, I'm talking about serious problems like dropped valves, glued in valve guides, "new" heads sent out with .007" head deck variation, VERY POORLY welded chambers, etc etc That's just the crap that I've seen firsthand!

    Although I have no experience with the Edelbrocks, I've seen them up close at their booths. The flow numbers backup the reputation of Edelbrocks head lineup, and the flow numbers look about right for the visual impression they give. Again, like other Edelbrock heads, the quality is great. The flow and power potential, not so great.

    Edit: If you're looking for an inexpensive "budget" head that makes good power without problems look at Texas Speeds PRC line, or the Livernois stuff.

    I agree about picking the PRC's or Livernois as well... Yep. As far as being specific, I know Kyle's heads (Na$ty-TA) had bad guides as well, and his seats lasted about 900 miles.

    There are acceptable failure rates for anything, it's just odd that after years of messing with this stuff, right now I am on the first set of suspect AFRs ever, but have seen literally over half of the patriot setups fall short on numbers.

    I'm not attacking what anyone is running, just posting this stuff for new buyers so that they can at least be advised.

  5. #45
    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbodynut View Post
    PRC??
    Texas Speeds' "Precision Race Components" line.
    Awesome budget stock casting heads.
    http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...MID=1&catid=40

  6. #46
    Just a souped up sunfire. Ryans99LS1's Avatar
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    +1 also talked to a local guy who was very happy with his PRCs

  7. #47
    I Like It Stroked 99Ls1fever's Avatar
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    +2 but they aren't cheap.....!

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    Just a souped up sunfire. Ryans99LS1's Avatar
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    I dont see 1200 as that bad for heads..

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    Member fbodynut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    Texas Speeds' "Precision Race Components" line.
    Awesome budget stock casting heads.
    http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...MID=1&catid=40
    Thanks, I took a look at them too.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever View Post
    +2 but they aren't cheap.....!
    Nothing for these late models is cheap. But what you got to look at is bang for the buck.

  11. #51
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    Soooo....is anyone out there running the 5.3 liter heads? I just talked to one of the guys at Texas Speed for a few. He said ported 5.3 heads make some good power with the right cam.

  12. #52
    Just a souped up sunfire. Ryans99LS1's Avatar
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    Well the guy i talked to loved his but i never got any dyno numbers from him. I plan on running those heads with a 228R. Im pretty sure ill make some good power with that set up.

  13. #53
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever View Post
    +2 but they aren't cheap.....!

    uhhhh

    They cost the same as Patriots.

  14. #54
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    i feel compelled to give the bad of each for the sake of the OP...

    high dollar AFR heads (dropped atleast $2500-3000 for 5rwhp gain over his old setup)...
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878319

    budget Patriot heads (who the hell knows what the deal is here, car is an A4 unlocked on his dyno)...
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886647



    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    While I am SURE that you can find low dyno'ing setups with AFR, Trick Flow, and more, that example really isn't the best one yet and I'll tell you why. Something is very likely wrong with the bottom end in that car. His numbers on compression seem consistent, but look low in comparison to two other cars done in the last 2 weeks after his that were stock (210-215 throughout). He was out of town for a few weeks but a leakdown test should be done within a week. He changed the oil right before the dyno, and when he cut his filter (which he commonly does) it was slam full of metal, and much of it looked both copper and bronze in addition to silver At any rate, if intrested, keep an eye on that thread it will be updated. And FWIW, it wasn't just heads, he added the heads, had them milled to bump compression, AND added a Fast90/90 setup to gain that 5 at peak and LOSE OUT under the curve. Poor guy.

    -update-

    That low-dyno'ing AFR setup that you found, did, in fact have a hurt engine.
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878319

  15. #55
    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    thanks for the update, Frost. thanks for the reply to my PM as well. currently looking into what i ran by you...

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    Patriot Heads are better than people on this web page are giving them credit for...!

  17. #57
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    im beating a dead horse here, i inquired about the patriot heads back when texas-speed used to sell them, they told me they stopped selling them because of quality issues, this was before PRC heads existed, i would take the words of a reputable shop

  18. #58
    I Like It Stroked 99Ls1fever's Avatar
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    If that is what you believe to be safe then do it . I run Patriots on a 540 hp n/a engine and have no problems and my brother runs them on a 402 with 530 hp so I haven't had any problems so either the Texas Speed guy is byist or back then they were poor quality cause now I have never had any problems with them. I just wouldnt use PRC 5.3 l heads on a Ls1. I prefer LQ9 heads or LS6 heads my preferance....

  19. #59
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    made 447rwhp with a set of PRC 5.3s, custom cam, through a 9" rear last week on a stock bottom end LS1.

    Let's see that SAE graph of you making 540, that's hard to swallow even with good heads. While you are at, post the SAE graph of your brother's at 530 too.

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    Ive told this story on other forums but I bought my PP St2 heads in october 07. I bought them assembled and fresh out of the box they were off all over the place and came with no flow sheets like advertised. First the spring heights were off on 14 springs as much as .10 -.35, next I ordered 59cc chambers which were marked on the box, and after cc'ing the head what I had were 62's, the chambers were not CNC'd like they advertised they were stock, the port job looked pretty good and the only thing that was right was the 2.055/1.57 valve sizes.


    SO, I bit the bullet and had them fixed and now they do flow a little better than advertised, but it wasnt until I dumped another 425.00 bucks into them for additional hand porting and to correct all of the issues they had out of the box.

    These are all issues on why someone would be missing HP...........

    I guess I would have been one of those guys bitching about lack of power with these heads, but thats not my case, the car makes gobs of power, NOW.... Im bitching about having to go back in and fix problems that should of been handled by Patriots quality control guy.
    Last edited by GTOREP; 07-09-2008 at 08:22 PM.

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