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oil leak

This is a discussion on oil leak within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; 74,000 miles got pics of the oil leak http://s1140.photobucket.com/home/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leakhttp://s1140.photobucket.com/hohttp://s1140.photobucket.com/home/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leakme/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leak These are the pics i ...

  1. #1
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

    oil leak

    74,000 miles got pics of the oil leak

    http://s1140.photobucket.com/home/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leakhttp://s1140.photobucket.com/hohttp://s1140.photobucket.com/home/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leakme/dicksidulous/tag/z28 oil leak
    These are the pics i took of this z 28 that has a small maybe leak.
    it took me forever to figure out how to get em posted here so all comments questions advice opinions welcome as i read all the good advice from my other oil leak post
    ok
    Last edited by denegrader; 04-22-2011 at 07:11 PM.

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    I'd say its probably coming from the back of the oil pan where it meets the rear cover

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    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    I'd say its probably coming from the back of the oil pan where it meets the rear cover
    well yeah it seems to end there but the source mayby back of oil pan??
    check all the pics

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    No I mean where the pan meets the rear engine cover, not the bell housing. it looks a lot like the front timing cover and holds the rear main seal... but I think it will probably be leaking right where the cover meets the back of the block and pan

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    mark21742 may be right. It does look like a rear main. However it could be leakage coming from the valve covers, OPSU (Oil Pressure Sending Unit) or even the PCV.

    M6 or A4?


    Here is a pic and diagram of where it is located on the back of the engine behind the flywheel. The circles are the bolts required to remove the cover. You will also be required to lower (not remove) the oil pan in order to get the cover off. (yes a major PITA)






    You could also have a couple of other things that could be the cause of the leak here.

    OPSU is on the drivers side behind the intake. In the pic below look at the black piece with a green top and a wire harness coming out. That is it:



    These over time become brittle and can crack very easy. Ever time you give it a rev oil comes up and in normal circumstances put pressure onto the OPSU giving you a reading.


    The PCV starts off on the rear of the drivers side valve cover, goes behind the intake, splits, one goes to the rear of the passenger valve cover, the other goes up along side of the intake inot the PCV then on into the front of the intake. I doubt it is this because you would have to have some serious crank case pressure to have that much oil leaking. but it is a small chance you do.

  6. #6
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    No I mean where the pan meets the rear engine cover, not the bell housing. it looks a lot like the front timing cover and holds the rear main seal... but I think it will probably be leaking right where the cover meets the back of the block and pan
    cover wat kind a cover ya mean the engines not backed up to the bellhousing

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    cover wat kind a cover ya mean the engines not backed up to the bellhousing
    Look at my post the pic with the circles is the back of the engine after you remove the BH and flywheel.

  8. #8
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

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    ok ya checked the pics?
    ya mean to tell me this timing looking cover is an actual cover designed to hol d the rear main seal ans of course its also gasketed around the circumference tight?
    now my cars a 6 speed manual,
    and i do have to say it looks like it is comming from there this is between the engine and the transmission?
    now this could be that cove gasket failing and or the rear main?
    now originaly the mechanic said oil pan gasket which wouldnt it be even more labor to drop the pan?? So the tranny would have to be dropped?
    dont think its the opsu or pcv but isee its close to where that leak would could be.
    now maybe from sitting alot only 74,000 miles?
    not from driving hard?
    well dont look good.
    wats the labor rate to drop the tranny 6 speed?
    thanx

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    mark21742 may be right. It does look like a rear main. However it could be leakage coming from the valve covers, OPSU (Oil Pressure Sending Unit) or even the PCV.

    M6 or A4?


    Here is a pic and diagram of where it is located on the back of the engine behind the flywheel. The circles are the bolts required to remove the cover. You will also be required to lower (not remove) the oil pan in order to get the cover off. (yes a major PITA)
    Click for full size

    Click for full size



    You could also have a couple of other things that could be the cause of the leak here.

    OPSU is on the drivers side behind the intake. In the pic below look at the black piece with a green top and a wire harness coming out. That is it:

    Click for full size

    These over time become brittle and can crack very easy. Ever time you give it a rev oil comes up and in normal circumstances put pressure onto the OPSU giving you a reading.


    The PCV starts off on the rear of the drivers side valve cover, goes behind the intake, splits, one goes to the rear of the passenger valve cover, the other goes up along side of the intake inot the PCV then on into the front of the intake. I doubt it is this because you would have to have some serious crank case pressure to have that much oil leaking. but it is a small chance you do.

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    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Look at my post the pic with the circles is the back of the engine after you remove the BH and flywheel.
    well yeah zactly wat sellers did was change valve cover gaskets in hopes that would take care of oil leak.
    it didnt and i come along and get it.

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    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    No I mean where the pan meets the rear engine cover, not the bell housing. it looks a lot like the front timing cover and holds the rear main seal... but I think it will probably be leaking right where the cover meets the back of the block and pan
    yeah so this cover guesss is called cover that holds rear main seal
    well this babys gone and its back to the 5.0
    Last edited by denegrader; 04-22-2011 at 09:52 PM.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    ok ya checked the pics?
    A)ya mean to tell me this timing looking cover is an actual cover designed to hol d the rear main seal ans of course its also gasketed around the circumference tight?
    now my cars a 6 speed manual,
    B)and i do have to say it looks like it is comming from there this is between the engine and the transmission?
    C)now this could be that cove gasket failing and or the rear main?
    D)now originaly the mechanic said oil pan gasket which wouldnt it be even more labor to drop the pan?? So the tranny would have to be dropped?
    dont think its the opsu or pcv but isee its close to where that leak would could be.
    E)
    now maybe from sitting alot only 74,000 miles?
    not from driving hard?
    well dont look good.
    F)wats the labor rate to drop the tranny 6 speed?
    thanx



    A- It is not a timing cover. It just looks like one. I believe the cover gasket are metal and they rarely ever leak. Now the Rear Main Seal (RMS) will always leak before the cover 99.9% of the time. If a vehicle sits for very long duration (seen vehicles sit for a yr and have no problems, others start leaking on start up) the seals dry out and can shrink slightly, thus causing leaks.

    B-That is a major sign that it is RMS leak. The only other thing that is in the BH that could leak is the slave cylinder for the clutch. If it was that you would have trouble getting into gear before you saw that leak.

    C- see my response to A

    D- Changing the Oil pan is a major bitch. The front half is under the K member and the only way to get enough clearance for it to slip out is to drop the K-member. Now to get to the RMS you will need to drop the tranny, BH, clutch, and flywheel. No other way around it. If you have a "mechanic" do it, it's not cheap. You will be billed about 6-8 hrs of work. I can to it in about 4-5 with another person helping me. But that's because I've dropped mine 3 times so far. I know where everything is and what has to be done. It could be done at a home garage but it is much easier to do on a lift.

    E-These seals (RMS) go bad. Not anything you can really do about it. I will say they are much better then on the old engines. Those used to go every 50k miles it seemed.

    F- not cheap see my response to D

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    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    Well i,m sure your capable and have done it 3 times.
    Well at the moment im still in shock sorta.
    I do believe dropping pan not removing is a bitch!
    Why does pan have to be lowered in order to remove the rms and change rms cover gasket?
    I know the tranny would have to be dropped to change the r.m.s.
    wats in way of tranny befor it can be dropped?
    anyways yer talkina mech at a shop will charge,what for the whole job 8hours labor only?
    labor at what $100 an hour?
    How about r.m.s. softner conditioner couldnt hurt?
    well could sell it? hmmmmmmmm
    thanx later





    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    A- It is not a timing cover. It just looks like one. I believe the cover gasket are metal and they rarely ever leak. Now the Rear Main Seal (RMS) will always leak before the cover 99.9% of the time. If a vehicle sits for very long duration (seen vehicles sit for a yr and have no problems, others start leaking on start up) the seals dry out and can shrink slightly, thus causing leaks.

    B-That is a major sign that it is RMS leak. The only other thing that is in the BH that could leak is the slave cylinder for the clutch. If it was that you would have trouble getting into gear before you saw that leak.

    C- see my response to A

    D- Changing the Oil pan is a major bitch. The front half is under the K member and the only way to get enough clearance for it to slip out is to drop the K-member. Now to get to the RMS you will need to drop the tranny, BH, clutch, and flywheel. No other way around it. If you have a "mechanic" do it, it's not cheap. You will be billed about 6-8 hrs of work. I can to it in about 4-5 with another person helping me. But that's because I've dropped mine 3 times so far. I know where everything is and what has to be done. It could be done at a home garage but it is much easier to do on a lift.

    E-These seals (RMS) go bad. Not anything you can really do about it. I will say they are much better then on the old engines. Those used to go every 50k miles it seemed.

    F- not cheap see my response to D

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    Senior Member wileyCoyote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    Well i,m sure your capable and have done it 3 times.
    Well at the moment im still in shock sorta.
    I do believe dropping pan not removing is a bitch!
    Why does pan have to be lowered in order to remove the rms and change rms cover gasket?
    I know the tranny would have to be dropped to change the r.m.s.
    wats in way of tranny befor it can be dropped?
    anyways yer talkina mech at a shop will charge,what for the whole job 8hours labor only?
    labor at what $100 an hour?
    How about r.m.s. softner conditioner couldnt hurt?
    well could sell it? hmmmmmmmm
    thanx later
    i don't think the pan comes our for a RMS replacement. i had mine replaced a couple months ago - and got new clutch and flywheel. doing the RMS is the prime time to replace those things since you have a M6. my original clutch went 150k miles, you're at a lot less, but you don't know the history of the car (how it was driven, etc.). bottom line is cars don't do well sitting for long periods - i think they die quicker that way, they have to be driven periodically to keep things lubed, from rusting up, etc. the reason for your leak is probably more because of age or because it was sitting for a long time...

  14. #14
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

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    ok yeah the cars only got 74,000 miles and sat had to 7 000 mile s a year average and yeah i agree a car sitting alot aint good for it.
    im so reluctant to do it at this low a molies and w/ clutch still good and all .
    maybe ill try some bars rms stop leak i heard it was good hey nothin to lose.
    Curious though what are the hours required for removal of the tranny?
    what is the cost of a new clutch?
    thanx













    Quote Originally Posted by wileyCoyote View Post
    i don't think the pan comes our for a RMS replacement. i had mine replaced a couple months ago - and got new clutch and flywheel. doing the RMS is the prime time to replace those things since you have a M6. my original clutch went 150k miles, you're at a lot less, but you don't know the history of the car (how it was driven, etc.). bottom line is cars don't do well sitting for long periods - i think they die quicker that way, they have to be driven periodically to keep things lubed, from rusting up, etc. the reason for your leak is probably more because of age or because it was sitting for a long time...

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    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    My 94 Corvette leaked at 54k miles. As pajeff, the stocker that GM put in there was junk. Even the cheap-o Mr. Gasket version was twice the product. That car sat for 1 winter and it leaked. It happens.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    Well i,m sure your capable and have done it 3 times.
    Well at the moment im still in shock sorta.
    I do believe dropping pan not removing is a bitch!
    Why does pan have to be lowered in order to remove the rms and change rms cover gasket?
    I know the tranny would have to be dropped to change the r.m.s.
    wats in way of tranny befor it can be dropped?
    anyways yer talkina mech at a shop will charge,what for the whole job 8hours labor only?
    labor at what $100 an hour?
    How about r.m.s. softner conditioner couldnt hurt?
    well could sell it? hmmmmmmmm
    thanx later

    Don't sell this because of a leak. Blown engine, then yeah, I could see, but not because of a leak. You pic looks clean compare to my R&P leak.

    In the pic of the RMS cover you see 2 arrows. Those bolts come up through the oil pan and into the RMC cover. I looked at the instructions again and you don't need to lower the pan. Those 2 bolts have to come out in order for the RMS cover to.

    Just how much oil is leaking? A quart a drive? a month? several weeks? This will tell you how seriously you need to address it. The first 2 yes, over several weeks, not so much. Rule out every other possible problem first.


    wileyCoyote is correct in that this is something you should do while replacing your clutch. You have do the same work. This is just one more step and a small one really.

    What the job entails - You have to remove the torque arm (TA), drive shaft, the tranny, (disconnect the hydraulic clutch hose that connects the master and slave cylinders and drain the tranny.). Remove the BH, clutch, pressure plate,and fly wheel and RMS cover. The seal is pushed into place from the inside of the cover. I know sounds simple right?

    Here's where it gets painful. Putting it all back on. You'll have difficulty in sliding the tranny back on the BH. You have to line up the shaft just right, usually at an angle at first and a lot of cussing. It can go in quick and easy or hard and painful. I had to replace my BH ($500) because I cracked it.

    Wow labor is F'ing expensive in Cali!!! Find another shop. It should go for about $500-$600. The seal is $10. Just remember they will always "suggest" that problems have to be fixed right this moment. Some mechanics are god some are bad. Point being, get a few estimations.

  17. #17
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
    2001 camaro z28

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    Well i used to do clutches my self last was a 6 cylinder 240z 15 years ago im an old man now and iant pullin any tranny dont really have the room otherwise i coud.
    my 5 .0 hada clutch and rms done in 2002 a shop here in cali did one for $475
    out the door.
    The 5.0 has a cable cluth acuation system and a quadrant not a hydraulic system.
    Question is the slave hooked to the bell housing or frame, cause disconnecting the hose will mean bleeding issues and like the 240z can be a b----!
    i used to pull the whole tranny w/ the bellhousing just get a clutch alignment tool and usually just slap it in but it was 20 years ago i aint so ambitious now.
    If after monitoring it which yer right i aint even driven it but 50 miles since i got it, and may be somwhat shootin from the hip, jumpin into conclusions,
    added 1 qt. seemed like only 50 miles but not sure.
    Ill monitor but if it is 50 miles a qt, then it must be rms throwing it out more so as i drive?
    that would be catastrauphic.
    if its hardly leakinmaybe bars stop leak.
    well ill call around here in cali for quotes for the job. ill keep it posted when i find out more
    thanx later



    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Don't sell this because of a leak. Blown engine, then yeah, I could see, but not because of a leak. You pic looks clean compare to my R&P leak.

    In the pic of the RMS cover you see 2 arrows. Those bolts come up through the oil pan and into the RMC cover. I looked at the instructions again and you don't need to lower the pan. Those 2 bolts have to come out in order for the RMS cover to.

    Just how much oil is leaking? A quart a drive? a month? several weeks? This will tell you how seriously you need to address it. The first 2 yes, over several weeks, not so much. Rule out every other possible problem first.


    wileyCoyote is correct in that this is something you should do while replacing your clutch. You have do the same work. This is just one more step and a small one really.

    What the job entails - You have to remove the torque arm (TA), drive shaft, the tranny, (disconnect the hydraulic clutch hose that connects the master and slave cylinders and drain the tranny.). Remove the BH, clutch, pressure plate,and fly wheel and RMS cover. The seal is pushed into place from the inside of the cover. I know sounds simple right?

    Here's where it gets painful. Putting it all back on. You'll have difficulty in sliding the tranny back on the BH. You have to line up the shaft just right, usually at an angle at first and a lot of cussing. It can go in quick and easy or hard and painful. I had to replace my BH ($500) because I cracked it.

    Wow labor is F'ing expensive in Cali!!! Find another shop. It should go for about $500-$600. The seal is $10. Just remember they will always "suggest" that problems have to be fixed right this moment. Some mechanics are god some are bad. Point being, get a few estimations.

  18. #18
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    Well i used to do clutches my self last was a 6 cylinder 240z 15 years ago im an old man now and iant pullin any tranny dont really have the room otherwise i coud.
    my 5 .0 hada clutch and rms done in 2002 a shop here in cali did one for $475
    out the door.
    The 5.0 has a cable cluth acuation system and a quadrant not a hydraulic system.
    Question is the slave hooked to the bell housing or frame, cause disconnecting the hose will mean bleeding issues and like the 240z can be a b----!
    i used to pull the whole tranny w/ the bellhousing just get a clutch alignment tool and usually just slap it in but it was 20 years ago i aint so ambitious now.
    If after monitoring it which yer right i aint even driven it but 50 miles since i got it, and may be somwhat shootin from the hip, jumpin into conclusions,
    added 1 qt. seemed like only 50 miles but not sure.
    Ill monitor but if it is 50 miles a qt, then it must be rms throwing it out more so as i drive?
    that would be catastrauphic.
    if its hardly leakinmaybe bars stop leak.
    well ill call around here in cali for quotes for the job. ill keep it posted when i find out more
    thanx later

    That is a lot of oil. $450 is not bad.

    The slave is actually connected to the tranny. The hose goes through the BH. As long as you haven't done the clutch hose mod then you won't have the much to bleed. And yes bleeding the clutch is a mofo!

  19. #19
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    My 94 Corvette leaked at 54k miles. As pajeff, the stocker that GM put in there was junk. Even the cheap-o Mr. Gasket version was twice the product. That car sat for 1 winter and it leaked. It happens.
    Well there ya go then low mileage car that sat may not necesarily be a better buy than one w/ high miles prime examples.
    240,000 on my old daily driver 89 5.0,
    i,m just so pissed cause this car is so clean in and out you would never even know anything could possibly be wrong.
    i,m am feeling like jinxed like its a sick trick as they knew that it had issues and instead of being up fron you know they knew being so clean it would sell itself it did to me anyways.
    Well ya know how it is ya think its a good deal so ya got ta jump as yer afraid someone else will get a better deal than you can get so ya go.
    Kinda sad way to aquire a car but ya figure better than takin chance on a 35,000 new camaro.
    Guess i shouldve been more skeptical , but hard to be when a woman sellin it in an expensive part a town and its so clean.
    Well she was quiet though,and sold it to me at a shopping center not at her house. wats saying all used cars are as is???? Some things never change, just pisses me off to no end. Buy a used car ya buy a problem.
    Guess just drive my old 5.0 1 car forever.
    no more pretty faces z28, 350 z ne w camro corvette ect.
    Cause guess anything any car can be broke and not know it.
    all i did is buy trouble

  20. #20
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    these shots look like it is comming from the rear main seal and cover gasket maybe
    how much im losing ill find out let me know if yer able to see these pics

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