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New Mobil 1 Extended VS German Castrol

This is a discussion on New Mobil 1 Extended VS German Castrol within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ...

  1. #81
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by {FzS}BlacKMagicK View Post
    Hey jad628, is there a WalMart near ya?

    They have it for 19.97 in a 5 quart container.
    Got one somewhat close (ten miles maybe). Auto Zone was only a couple of miles and I was going that way.

    Next time I'm at Wal-Mart I'll stock up if they have it. Thanks for the tip.

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    I have posted UOA's and VOA analysis of Mobil1 and get no response. I have provided links to Bobistheoilguy data for him and dismisses it as "worthless"...well friend BITOG is the largest deposit of lab test data in the world......beats the shit out of "race team" marketing hype for real world data.
    Listen oil blenders change formulas constantly.....what is tops one year may not be the next. Mobil1 was clearly a superior product for many years and I used it religiously. Just not the case today. Mobil1 has clearly changed its formula and others have equaled or bettered Mobil1 for our LSX engines. Use Mobil1 0-40 ...sure....it shears to a 30 weight after 500 miles so viscosity isn't an issue is it? Why does Pennzoil Platinum consistently and in a very wide variety of LSX based engines kick Mobil1 ass in wear metal results? Because it has a superior formula....that's why industry experts like Terry Dyson...who is an independent consultant on the payroll of many LeMans/NASCAR teams will/does endorse Pennzoil Platinum as the best off the shelf lube out there.....no secret and easy to find......and he isn't paid by any oil blender......guys....stick with the lab work and avoid marketing hype bullshit at all cost. Anybody that come and tells anybody else Product X is the best because look at these dyno pulls is a fucking fruitcake....dyno pulls mean dick.....sponsored race teams do not use the same oil you buy off the shelf.....anybody with a brain can figure that shit out.....they all run a blend and add packs that is not mass produced or the cost of a quart of oil would be $20....come on.........
    If Mobil1 goes back and puts it product first versus its profit and eliminates this watered down version of Mobil1 I'll be the first in line to switch back....until then I will continue to study the data, trends and stay informed with Blackstone Labs, Terry Dyson and my own UOA's. Fuck marketing shit.

  4. #84
    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    I have posted UOA's and VOA analysis of Mobil1 and get no response. I have provided links to Bobistheoilguy data for him and dismisses it as "worthless"...well friend BITOG is the largest deposit of lab test data in the world......beats the shit out of "race team" marketing hype for real world data.
    Listen oil blenders change formulas constantly.....what is tops one year may not be the next. Mobil1 was clearly a superior product for many years and I used it religiously. Just not the case today. Mobil1 has clearly changed its formula and others have equaled or bettered Mobil1 for our LSX engines. Use Mobil1 0-40 ...sure....it shears to a 30 weight after 500 miles so viscosity isn't an issue is it? Why does Pennzoil Platinum consistently and in a very wide variety of LSX based engines kick Mobil1 ass in wear metal results? Because it has a superior formula....that's why industry experts like Terry Dyson...who is an independent consultant on the payroll of many LeMans/NASCAR teams will/does endorse Pennzoil Platinum as the best off the shelf lube out there.....no secret and easy to find......and he isn't paid by any oil blender......guys....stick with the lab work and avoid marketing hype bullshit at all cost. Anybody that come and tells anybody else Product X is the best because look at these dyno pulls is a fucking fruitcake....dyno pulls mean dick.....sponsored race teams do not use the same oil you buy off the shelf.....anybody with a brain can figure that shit out.....they all run a blend and add packs that is not mass produced or the cost of a quart of oil would be $20....come on.........
    If Mobil1 goes back and puts it product first versus its profit and eliminates this watered down version of Mobil1 I'll be the first in line to switch back....until then I will continue to study the data, trends and stay informed with Blackstone Labs, Terry Dyson and my own UOA's. Fuck marketing shit.
    And the congregation says....AMEN!!!

    Sarge, out of curiosity what is your opinion of Havoline dino oil? I used four quarts of Havoline dino 10w30 with one quart of synthetic (either Mobil or Havoline usually).It worked fine for me for years, but I am humble enough to know that I had (and have) a lot to learn about the varying qualities of oil.

    The main reason I stuck with Havoline was it seemed to produce better gas mileage that any other dino oil I tried, but the swaying factor for me to TRY Havoline was their spokesperson, Bob Hope. I admit it, when Bob was behind something I followed with blind faith.

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    Bob Hope has/had more credibility with me than these paid for race teams
    Havoline has shown to be very good oil. VOA's show some strong add packs for sure.
    I'm not a big mixing fan....sorta come from the school of research/UOA's and stick with the oil that the data reflects the best wear metal results....however I could never tell somebody not to mix......and your "brew" has no issues that I can see.....I mean all the SM rated oils...both conventional and synthetic are compatible...so go for it if it works for you.

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    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Bob Hope has/had more credibility with me than these paid for race teams
    Havoline has shown to be very good oil. VOA's show some strong add packs for sure.
    I'm not a big mixing fan....sorta come from the school of research/UOA's and stick with the oil that the data reflects the best wear metal results....however I could never tell somebody not to mix......and your "brew" has no issues that I can see.....I mean all the SM rated oils...both conventional and synthetic are compatible...so go for it if it works for you.

    Bob was the man, no doubt. A real American to make us all proud whether he knew anything about oil or not!!!

    Yeah, the number of vehicles I exceeded 100,000 miles with (and that 305 Caprice that went over 300,000) told me that while my Havoline mixture may not have been optimum, it certainly wasn't damaging. I was faithful with my oil changes too. 5000 miles max, it got changed....period. It did get better gas mileage than any other dino oil I used, which convinced me that oil does have a bearing on gas mileage because the other factors were consistent, only the oil varied.

    My only concern with synthetics was the rumor (I don't know if true) that they are not as capable of protecting seals in the engine as dino oil. When I first started using Mobil 1 in that 5.0L Mustang, a lot of guys were doing the same and living with 15,000 miles intervals. I NEVER bought into that. They claimed the higher price of the synthetic was minimized by the fact it outlasted three changes of conventional oil. I always thought that was a lesson in false economy. In my opinion, the same people who buy into that are the ones who don't check their oil level regularly. My brother used to be one of those. Within this year, he had an engine lock up in his Camry. The reason? No oil. When the mechanic inquired about the last oil change, it had been at a minimum 10,000 miles on dino oil. Now a Toyota may not be our first choice, but there is no doubt that a properly maintained Toyota engine will go over 100,000 miles, no problem. His went south before that and had been burning oil for many miles (he was a quicky lube type). It's obvious that his lack of maintenance caused this engine failure. Well, now my brother - who has never been mechanically inclined - has now learned how to change his own oil at the age of 48. Never did it before, but an engine replacement bill is a great motivator to help one learn their lesson.

    BTW, that 85 Caprice was a two-door!!! I rebuilt the 4-barrel at around 130,000 miles and I had to chisel - that's chisel - the carbon build up from under the back blade. It was that hard!!! The infamous camshaft lobe issue finally caused the demise of that engine I hear, but 300,000 plus miles on the original engine? Not bad.
    Last edited by jad628; 09-05-2007 at 06:13 AM.

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    To justify the cost delta between synthetics and conventional with extended OCI's doesn't/hasn't made sense to me day one. My issue with extended drains is this.....what about leaky air filters? What about shitty PCV valves? What about fuel dilution? Many things factor into the health of a oil that have absolutely nothing to do with the oil.....synthetics or conventionals sludge up when you introduce silicon (dirt), fuel dilution, crappy PCV...etc. So I just never bought into the extended OCI.
    Fact is...and there are a ton of UOA's reflecting this fact......more cars go longer (over100K miles) on conventionals than on synthetics. Now of course more cars run conventional oils....but todays conventional SM rated oils are the best we have ever had available to us. Yes "myths" are perpetuated on the internet as to the true capabilities of various oils.....this is why we have labs and data....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    To justify the cost delta between synthetics and conventional with extended OCI's doesn't/hasn't made sense to me day one. My issue with extended drains is this.....what about leaky air filters? What about shitty PCV valves? What about fuel dilution? Many things factor into the health of a oil that have absolutely nothing to do with the oil.....synthetics or conventionals sludge up when you introduce silicon (dirt), fuel dilution, crappy PCV...etc. So I just never bought into the extended OCI.
    Fact is...and there are a ton of UOA's reflecting this fact......more cars go longer (over100K miles) on conventionals than on synthetics. Now of course more cars run conventional oils....but todays conventional SM rated oils are the best we have ever had available to us. Yes "myths" are perpetuated on the internet as to the true capabilities of various oils.....this is why we have labs and data....
    Sounds like we agree that "extended" is a term to be avoided in our oil choice considerations. No matter what is used, regular oil changes are definitely a must. No oil marketing slogan should ever dispute that.

    I appreciate your efforts in this Sarge. I have learned a lot about oil from you over the last year or so. This site can be a true learning experience for those who will shut up long enough to be taught a thing or two. I was not a complete novice, but I'm humble enough to know when I could learn more.

  9. #89
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    If Mobil1 goes back and puts it product first versus its profit and eliminates this watered down version of Mobil1 I'll be the first in line to switch back....until then I will continue to study the data, trends and stay informed with Blackstone Labs, Terry Dyson and my own UOA's
    It looks like the problem here is that you are confused about the product, and that may be Mobil's fault. Mobil 1 is watered down as you say, but Mobil 1 SuperSyn is still the same old Mobil 1. It is no more expensive than it ever was, and when you adjust for inflation it's actually cheaper. No one seems to understand why the price of Mobil 1 dropped to about $20 for 5 quarts.... They simply kept the name and made it a blend. It's sorta like beer, they just added another grade between the premium product.

    I have looked at the information provided, but you don't seem to take into consideration viscosity vs. HP. Where does it say that full synthetic Mobil 1 loses it's viscosity at 500 miles? This is absolutely impossible with any full synthetic! I would seriously doubt any test making such a claim, because it goes against physics.

    Use Mobil1 0-40 ...sure....it shears to a 30 weight after 500 miles so viscosity isn't an issue is it?
    Actually a straight 30 wt provides very good protection. Please provide the link, and the name of the lab making this claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Fuck marketing shit.
    amen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    It looks like the problem here is that you are confused about the product, and that may be Mobil's fault. Mobil 1 is watered down as you say, but Mobil 1 SuperSyn is still the same old Mobil 1. It is no more expensive than it ever was, and when you adjust for inflation it's actually cheaper. No one seems to understand why the price of Mobil 1 dropped to about $20 for 5 quarts.... They simply kept the name and made it a blend. It's sorta like beer, they just added another grade between the premium product.

    I have looked at the information provided, but you don't seem to take into consideration viscosity vs. HP. Where does it say that full synthetic Mobil 1 loses it's viscosity at 500 miles? This is absolutely impossible with any full synthetic! I would seriously doubt any test making such a claim, because it goes against physics.



    Actually a straight 30 wt provides very good protection. Please provide the link, and the name of the lab making this claim.
    Where does it say Mobil1 shears? Try reading all the links and look at the flashpoints! READ THE UOA'S!!!!! To say synthetics are not capable of shearing is retarded. Please go educate yourself and get out of this "dream world"....Physics? Good god son you are posting about a subject you know exactly ZERO about. Read up on Viscosity Index Improvers.....HTHS and TBN.
    http://www.thebestsyntheticoil.com/pdf/g1971.pdf

    Quit asking for any information until you provide some information other than marketing bullshit.

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  13. #93
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    More Mobil1 shearing documentation...........
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post753710
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post726151

    Do it yourself....I'm tired....and this is stupid.....your trolling arent you

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    So you give me another forum and opinions as evidence, with the only legitimate link on the first one being Mobil 1 data...

    http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Lu...bil1_5W-30.asp

    The next link you provided;

    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post968392

    Contains a report on Mobil 1 in a GM 3.5L I-5 using Mobil 1 5W-30, and states...
    "Your oil change interval was brief at 1,811 miles leaving your wear metals quite low when compared with universal average wear metals"
    The report goes on to say "Average wear is based on an average oil change of 5,650 miles for this type engine. With your 3.5L engine wearing perfectly you could add more miles to your oil changes without hurting anything, but that is entirely up to you. For now, no problems found."

    Sounds like a glowing advertisement for Mobil 1. And then we see
    "I doubt it sheared that much in 1K. Instead, we see issues with Blackstone reports all the time."
    The next 2 links are entirely opinion, and more undocumented test reports with forum opinions.

    Finally we have another glowing report on Mobil 1. This time at 5,000 miles, and again suggesting LONGER oil change intervals with Mobil 1 5W-50.

    Followed by the peanut gallery accusing Mobil 1 of shearing to 40wt at 5,000 miles, not 500! Pretty outstanding performance by Mobil 1 in my opinion. I don't know anyone who goes 5,000 miles between oil changes.

    And you expect me to take your criticism seriously? Pretty hilarious.... and you accuse me of trolling. You're right about one thing, my knowledge of physics is somewhat limited to first hand experience in over 30 years of building and racing high performance bikes and cars. I have a BA in Computer Science, and I'm a former stock broker. My wife is the physics and chemistry expert. She holds a PHD in chemistry.
    Last edited by VTR99; 09-05-2007 at 11:57 AM.

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  16. #96
    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    So you give me another forum and opinions as evidence, with the only legitimate link on the first one being Mobil 1 data...

    http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Lu...bil1_5W-30.asp

    The next link you provided;

    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post968392

    Contains a report on Mobil 1 in a GM 3.5L I-5 using Mobil 1 5W-30, and states...
    The report goes on to say "Average wear is based on an average oil change of 5,650 miles for this type engine. With your 3.5L engine wearing perfectly you could add more miles to your oil changes without hurting anything, but that is entirely up to you. For now, no problems found."

    Sounds like a glowing advertisement for Mobil 1. And then we see

    The next 2 links are entirely opinion, and more undocumented test reports with forum opinions.

    Finally we have another glowing report on Mobil 1. This time at 5,000 miles, and again suggesting LONGER oil change intervals with Mobil 1 5W-50.

    Followed by the peanut gallery accusing Mobil 1 of shearing to 40wt at 5,000 miles, not 500! Pretty outstanding performance by Mobil 1 in my opinion. I don't know anyone who goes 5,000 miles between oil changes.

    And you expect me to take your criticism seriously? Pretty hilarious.... and you accuse me of trolling. You're right about one thing, my knowledge of physics is somewhat limited to first hand experience in over 30 years of building and racing high performance bikes and cars. I have a BA in Computer Science, and I'm a former stock broker. My wife is the physics and chemistry expert. She holds a PHD in chemistry.
    I'm confused about how your wife's degree has anything to do with your knowledge on this subject. Maybe she told you what to say, I don't know.

    But I'm pretty sure I can say that you having a BA in Computer Science and being a former stock broker has absolutely no bearing on your qualifications to discuss lubrication issues, so why bring it up?

    I've been a soldier, a cop, studied martial arts, raised bonsai trees, been hopelessly involved with shooting sports, even been on a few golf courses, but I have very few collared golf shirts. See what I mean?

    Sarge is a known quality here. You are not...yet. Maybe you should consider that before you try to joust with a well-respected Moderator. Just some friendly advice, okay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jad628 View Post
    But I'm pretty sure I can say that you having a BA in Computer Science and being a former stock broker has absolutely no bearing on your qualifications to discuss lubrication issues, so why bring it up?
    I agree, yeah pretty much that's my profile too, and I wouldn't talk motor oil science unless I knew what the f is going on... some people just don't know when to stop. my 2 cents.
    it's you jad arguing with me over some software engineering subject cause you happen to hit a website and read about etc... this thread is starting to sound like trolling ...

  18. #98
    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djvaly View Post
    I agree, yeah pretty much that's my profile too, and I wouldn't talk motor oil science unless I knew what the f is going on... some people just don't know when to stop. my 2 cents.
    As far as I'm concerned, Sarge's word is good enough for me. VTR99 still has to earn that. Hopefully all will be okay.

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    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djvaly View Post
    I agree, yeah pretty much that's my profile too, and I wouldn't talk motor oil science unless I knew what the f is going on... some people just don't know when to stop. my 2 cents.
    it's you jad arguing with me over some software engineering subject cause you happen to hit a website and read about etc... this thread is starting to sound like trolling ...



    Dj, me arguing about software will happen immediately before they serve commitment papers on me!!!

    Homey don't know software!!!

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    it's u = it would be like
    ajhahahhha that wuz funny!

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