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New Mobil 1 Extended VS German Castrol

This is a discussion on New Mobil 1 Extended VS German Castrol within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I'm not sure you really understood what Sarge was saying. He never said conventional was better than syntetic and he ...

  1. #21
    Member VTR99's Avatar
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    I'm not sure you really understood what Sarge was saying. He never said conventional was better than syntetic and he did not recomend it nor have I ever heard him recomend it. As to your frying pan and freezer testing I would really recomend that you try getting and oil analysis test done. I would really like you to do an analysis on your M1 then try geraman castrol or pennzoil platinum then come back and tell us which one you recomend. Is M1 going to destroy your engine NO but there are better options out there for the price.
    I clearly understood what Sarge was saying, although the post did ramble quite a bit. I have no doubt that Pennzoil Platinum is a good quality synthetic with a similar price. Not sure where I would find German Castrol or what difference there is between what they sell here. Castrol has also been around for a long while, and has racing history. I have been running Mobil 1 since the mid to late 70's, and I have seen amazing results in high mileage engines that have been driven extremely hard. I have had great results with Mobil 1, especially in turbocharged engines. Mobil 1 synthetic has more real world race testing than all other brands combined. I see no credible evidence that any other oil or synthetic offers more protection at any price. If anything it is these other brands that offer ridiculous hype instead of real world performance. I clearly remember the Castrol Syntec commercial that claimed you could run an engine without oil for an extended period after using Syntec for a while..... Absolute pure rubbish! I can't think of anything that would make me respect their products less.

  2. #22
    Junior Member sreve's Avatar
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    GC is sold at the WS6STORE.com about $50 shipped. i have never tried it.
    it was developed for high end mercedes. something with the way they put it back together is supposed to make it superior. some people claim it will quiet an LSX motor down.

  3. #23
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    I clearly understood what Sarge was saying, although the post did ramble quite a bit. I have no doubt that Pennzoil Platinum is a good quality synthetic with a similar price. Not sure where I would find German Castrol or what difference there is between what they sell here. Castrol has also been around for a long while, and has racing history. I have been running Mobil 1 since the mid to late 70's, and I have seen amazing results in high mileage engines that have been driven extremely hard. I have had great results with Mobil 1, especially in turbocharged engines. Mobil 1 synthetic has more real world race testing than all other brands combined. I see no credible evidence that any other oil or synthetic offers more protection at any price. If anything it is these other brands that offer ridiculous hype instead of real world performance. I clearly remember the Castrol Syntec commercial that claimed you could run an engine without oil for an extended period after using Syntec for a while..... Absolute pure rubbish! I can't think of anything that would make me respect their products less.
    Ramble? I'm an old man....give me a break
    Yup....in the late 70's Mobil1 was a 100% PAO.....no longer true.....Mobil1 is not 100% PAO today......credible evidence? Try looking at all the UOA's....you'll stop waving that flag real damn quick.....No... Castrol has been in race cars much longer than Mobil1 has even existed and you are still waving that flag by the way? You drive a F1/LeMans do you? And why all the bable about conventional oil?
    Your still in the land of marketing arent you? Look at all the UOA's....do a search here or on BITOG....tons of data......absolute data that proved Mobil1 does not do better than the leading synthetics in protection of your motor....Cant wait until your next infomercial. GC has absolutely killed Mobil1 in every UOA I have seen in our motors. PP is equally dominate. No marketing bullshit....No "race car" endorsement lengths of time to some how justify us running an overpriced middle of the road oil like Mobil1....just pure scientific data. Hows that for a ramble?
    Last edited by Sarge; 09-02-2007 at 06:45 PM.

  4. #24
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    I have no doubt that Pennzoil Platinum is a good quality synthetic with a similar price.
    I don't think $2.00 a quart difference is similiar.


    Do you by chance work for Mobil 1?

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    Senior Member JonB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    I see no credible evidence that any other oil or synthetic offers more protection at any price. If anything it is these other brands that offer ridiculous hype instead of real world performance. I clearly remember the Castrol Syntec commercial that claimed you could run an engine without oil for an extended period after using Syntec for a while..... Absolute pure rubbish! I can't think of anything that would make me respect their products less.
    You see no credible evindenc because you have done no searching of UOA's like Sarge said. The evidence is out there you just have't looked. I've done my reasearch so I'm not going to do it for you as well because no matter what I or anyone else says you won't believe us so you must find out for your self. Again I ask you to do M1 against GC or PP and see the difference in UOA's.

    As for hype really who gives a rats ass they all do it. M1 has just as much hype as any other brand. Your own words "Mobil used to claim that you could go 25,000 miles between oil changes with Mobil 1. They no longer say this, because no matter how good your oil resists breakdown, combustion leaves abrasive deposits that contaminate oil." I guess that's not hype.

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    Junior Member sreve's Avatar
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    wow! we got us a flame war getting a real good start.
    i'll be right back i'm going to QT for some marshmellows

  7. #27
    Member Z ROADSTER's Avatar
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    Ya'll just let the blind led the blind , & the ignorant !!!

  8. #28
    Member VTR99's Avatar
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    You see no credible evindenc because you have done no searching of UOA's like Sarge said. The evidence is out there you just have't looked. I've done my reasearch so I'm not going to do it for you as well because no matter what I or anyone else says you won't believe us so you must find out for your self. Again I ask you to do M1 against GC or PP and see the difference in UOA's.
    Point me to your source of evidence, I am open minded and always willing to change my opinion when solid proof is presented. Saying "I've done my reasearch so I'm not going to do it for you" after I have made my case is the same as saying you really don't have a case.

    As for hype really who gives a rats ass they all do it. M1 has just as much hype as any other brand. Your own words "Mobil used to claim that you could go 25,000 miles between oil changes with Mobil 1. They no longer say this, because no matter how good your oil resists breakdown, combustion leaves abrasive deposits that contaminate oil." I guess that's not hype.
    The fact is that Mobil 1 did not break down as claimed even at 25,000 miles, in some cases it became too contaminated by engines that did not burn clean enough. You consider their reexamination of the product recommendations hype? That's pretty laughable when you consider Castrol claimed it protected engines when there was no oil present. I believe Castrol retracted their claim after they were threatened with a lawsuit when the results could not be duplicated.

    According to AMSOIL, Castrol is not really a true synthetic even though they charge synthetic prices for Syntec which is really a cracked hydrocarbon.

    according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.

    Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "Worlds Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.

    The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule, and builds it till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures.

  9. #29
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    Point me to your source of evidence, I am open minded and always willing to change my opinion when solid proof is presented. Saying "I've done my reasearch so I'm not going to do it for you" after I have made my case is the same as saying you really don't have a case.



    The fact is that Mobil 1 did not break down as claimed even at 25,000 miles, in some cases it became too contaminated by engines that did not burn clean enough. You consider their reexamination of the product recommendations hype? That's pretty laughable when you consider Castrol claimed it protected engines when there was no oil present. I believe Castrol retracted their claim after they were threatened with a lawsuit when the results could not be duplicated.

    According to AMSOIL, Castrol is not really a true synthetic even though they charge synthetic prices for Syntec which is really a cracked hydrocarbon.
    Friend Mobil1 did the exact same thing last year as Castrol did in the article you reference. Mobil1 is not a 100% PAO either today! Nor is Pennzoil Platinum.....RedLine is and some of Amsoil's product line. But do not be fooled...100% PAO really doesnt mean shit anyway.
    The guys and myself are trying to get you to use the search button....we have studied and posted miles of data on this subject here at LS1.COM. Where most gearhead sights just allow "My oil is the best" and marketing hype...we dont do that here.....when somebody comes along making absolute claims of supriority with any brand of oil on LS1.COM....we'll they have their work cut out for em as this forum knows the difference between butt dynos and marketing hype versus real world data and your gonna have a helluva a time.....OK....I'll hit the search button for you....get a big cup of coffee and let us know what you think after a very long read....Links in the threads by the way.......Spectrum analysis of Mobil1 in the 3rd thread compared to a conventional I think you'll enjoy
    I'm a Oil Junkie
    Another oil question!!!
    Interview with Royal Purple Prez
    royal purple gave 8 hp on tv show? how many switched?
    Mobil1 100% Synthetic Not
    mobil 1 or royal purple?
    which oil weight do you use
    When to change to Synthetic Oil?

    There are a shitload more....but I think this will keep you busy for awhile....

  10. #30
    car enthusiast djvaly's Avatar
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    I do Mobil 4-20 on my 402 ls2 now. works great, ultra syntetic motor oil, changing every 5k or so.

  11. #31
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Never heard of that stuff!

  12. #32
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    Sarge, Thanks for the links.... Really. I did read through them, and what I see is 99% opinion. I'm not some kid who got involved in racing a couple years ago. After reading all the links you provided, I come away with the feeling that you are just a liberal who doesn't like big corporations. Please correct me if I'm wrong here? Companies like Mercedes, and Formula 1 teams don't use Mobil 1 because they were paid to do so or because they get free products, they use it because it has been proven to be the very best lubricant they can buy to protect their product. There is plenty of research to back this up. Mobil makes a number of different blends and types of synthetics and oils. Even Mobil never claimed Mobil 1 is 100% PAO. What they mean is full synthetic base (Mobil 1 SuperSyn). Regardless of what anyone would like to think Mobil is the leader in synthetic oil technology for a reason, and that reason is not marketing hype.

    In one thread you claim
    Todays SM rated conventionals are as good as synthetics for 3-5 thousand mile Oil Change Intervals firstly
    . This is simply not true, because conventionals do combust and leave deposits. Full synthetics do not. Blends appear to have most of the benefits of synthetics. Synthetics also offer superior startup lubrication, and as most research claims this is when most wear occurs. With turbocharged engines conventional oils should not even be considered...


    The Mobil 1 oil in this test indisputably ran for 18,000 miles; 12,000 miles without a filter change.
    http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

    In this Horsepower Comparison Chart Mobil 1 clearly dominates, and this could be another reason winning racers choose Mobil.

    http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oi...nst_oils.shtml

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Do you have any UOA's proving your theory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    I clearly remember the Castrol Syntec commercial that claimed you could run an engine without oil for an extended period after using Syntec for a while..... Absolute pure rubbish! I can't think of anything that would make me respect their products less.
    not saying you can run an engine w/o oil but at the dealership i used to work at a tech needed an engine to lock up for warranty or some b/s and he drained the oil and started it. it ran for 30 min. at least and it had only used dino oil.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Do you have any UOA's proving your theory?
    i used to use mobil 1 back in the day. but it is way overpriced and pp and amsoil kick the shit out of it

  15. #35
    Member VTR99's Avatar
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    not saying you can run an engine w/o oil but at the dealership i used to work at a tech needed an engine to lock up for warranty or some b/s and he drained the oil and started it. it ran for 30 min. at least and it had only used dino oil.
    Pretty hard, if not completely impossible to believe. At the very least this dealership must be one of the most dishonest in the country. Most engines won't run more than a couple minutes without oil. I would be willing to bet no engine has ever run 30 minutes without oil. Anyone remember the Prolong Viper supposedly running in the desert without oil? How about 13 seconds when tested against their claim!

    The manufacturers of the ProLong engine additive were dealt a smack in the face by a Consumer Reports Magazine report into their product. CR attempted to reproduce the "no oil" test where all the oil was drained out of an engine which had been treated with ProLong, and then the engine was run. CR managed a maximum of 13 seconds running out of each of two engine before they seized up, welding the pistons to the barrels. The case was brought to a Federal Commision for prosecution for false advertising claims.
    http://www.thebestoil.com/updates.asp

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/09/pslcmp.htm

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/04/972303...padminicmp.htm

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    Sarge, Thanks for the links.... Really. I did read through them, and what I see is 99% opinion. I'm not some kid who got involved in racing a couple years ago. After reading all the links you provided, I come away with the feeling that you are just a liberal who doesn't like big corporations. Please correct me if I'm wrong here? Companies like Mercedes, and Formula 1 teams don't use Mobil 1 because they were paid to do so or because they get free products, they use it because it has been proven to be the very best lubricant they can buy to protect their product. There is plenty of research to back this up. Mobil makes a number of different blends and types of synthetics and oils. Even Mobil never claimed Mobil 1 is 100% PAO. What they mean is full synthetic base (Mobil 1 SuperSyn). Regardless of what anyone would like to think Mobil is the leader in synthetic oil technology for a reason, and that reason is not marketing hype.

    In one thread you claim . This is simply not true, because conventionals do combust and leave deposits. Full synthetics do not. Blends appear to have most of the benefits of synthetics. Synthetics also offer superior startup lubrication, and as most research claims this is when most wear occurs. With turbocharged engines conventional oils should not even be considered...




    http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

    In this Horsepower Comparison Chart Mobil 1 clearly dominates, and this could be another reason winning racers choose Mobil.

    http://www.performanceoilnews.com/oi...nst_oils.shtml
    Me a liberal? Not hardly....I own businesses and as you say I myself have been involved in muscle cars and motor sports as a hobby for over 30 years. I am perplexed and confused as what you call "opinion" as many links VOA's/UOA's and spectrograph's are included from myself all over this forum and your to lazy to use the search button.....or prefer to stay ignorant of facts.....to say conventional burn and synthetics do not is just incredible and shows your total lack of any basic knowledge of the subject at hand. Yet you continue to post marketing material. Sir you must be dismissed here as you have zero credibility and offer nothing more than marketing fodder where I have provided you with data.....and lots of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    Pretty hard, if not completely impossible to believe. At the very least this dealership must be one of the most dishonest in the country. Most engines won't run more than a couple minutes without oil. I would be willing to bet no engine has ever run 30 minutes without oil. Anyone remember the Prolong Viper supposedly running in the desert without oil? How about 13 seconds when tested against their claim!



    http://www.thebestoil.com/updates.asp

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/09/pslcmp.htm

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/04/972303...padminicmp.htm


    Note-The government's lawsuit against Z-Max was dropped citing evidence that their own investigators found to be true & credible . The government ended up having to pay all court cost & gave their approval for Z-max to continue their product advertising claims.
    Bubba needs to up-date his erroneous data.

  18. #38
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    Tell you what I'll do....Lets have a discussion and back it up with anything but marketing hype shall we? Lets start with Mobil1 protects your engine better.....how about analytical data from the lab on many engines.....I'll link to BITOG for these as I may for some VOA's and other links......game?
    LS1 here.....look at the significant drop in bearing wear when he went from Mobil1 to Havoline....
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post928538

    I got a shitload of these ......also you say conventional SM rated oils are inferior for some reason....you further state conventional don't flow as well in the cold.....lets look shall we.....
    Mobil1 5-30 pour point of -48c and a cSt of 64.8 @ 40c.
    Pennzoil Platinum 5-30 pour point of -45c and a cSt of 59.7 @40c
    Quaker State Conventional 5-30 pour point of -33c and a cSt of 64.1 @40c

    Now what does this data ( from the manufacturers very own PDS sheets) tell us....
    well the conventional poured in liquid form all the way down to -33c....folks that is fricking 28 degrees Fahrenheit below zero......but more importantly the conventional has a lower cSt at 40c.....so if you live in the north pole then I would suggest ( as I always have) a good synthetic which will flow down to -50 below zero farneheit.....bottom line is this....cold start flow for SM rated conventionals are on par with any sysnthetic...use the cSt and find out your selfs! So that bullshit is just that....bullshit....I don't know many LSx'er running around the North Pole do you?

    This will be a good start.....I got lots of UOA's reflecting higher wear numbers with Mobil1 versus Pennzoil Platinum/Amsoil etc. I thought you would like the LS1 switching from Mobil1 to Havoline the best though
    I await the marketing departments response.

  19. #39
    Senior Member JonB's Avatar
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    To each there own. Theres no point to this what so ever. M1 is a good oil, along with gc and pp. It has been proven that gc and pp shows less wear when a UOA is done that is all we have been saying. Just because gm recomends it does not mean its the best. Gm also recomends changing your coolant 5years or 150,000 miles spark plugs and wires at 100,000 miles. I bet you don't stick to those recomendations. Anyway like I said before to each there own, I bid you good day.

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    Senior Member JonB's Avatar
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    I feel we need to ligthen the mood a little in here so I'll qoute Sarge


    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Lets put on our real world pants and think about this for a second.

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