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My Head/Cam Install

This is a discussion on My Head/Cam Install within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Okay so I recently decided to swap the heads and cam in my 2000 Camaro SS M6. The car currently ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member splitfinger09's Avatar
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    My Head/Cam Install

    Okay so I recently decided to swap the heads and cam in my 2000 Camaro SS M6. The car currently has 60,000 miles. I am doing all the work myself and this is the first time ive ever done anyting this major to the vehicle. Current mods are ls6 intake, kooks LT's, SFC, LID and TSP true dual exhaust. Any advice or input on my setup or anything that could make the job easier feel free to post. I currently am on day 2 and have pulled the heads and the pulley and will be attempting to pull the cam tonight when I get off work. I am also using LS1howto.com. Is this the best write up there is? Thanks for all the help in advance. Pics coming soon!

    Setup I chose.

    TrickFlow As Cast 220cc Cylinder Heads- 3.90 Bore
    Fully Assembled Including .650 Lift Springs
    Mill to Desired Compression-61cc
    Hardened Pushrods
    228/230 .588/.592 112 LSA Camshaft
    Comp Trunion Kit
    GM MLS Head Gaskets
    ARP Head Bolts
    FAST Intake Gaskets
    Front Cover Gasket
    Front Cover Seal
    Waterpump Gaskets
    GM Crank Bolt
    Powerbond 25% Underdrive Pulley with Gates Belts/GM Bolt- F Body
    Comp Drop In Hi Performance Lifters
    Katech C5R Timing Chain
    Melling Hi Volume Oil Pump for LS Engines
    SVO 42lb/hr Fuel Injectors
    GM MLS Exhaust Manifold Gaskets
    Poly Motor Mounts
    Is there anyting else I should do while I have the engine stripped down to this point? Thanks


    Last edited by splitfinger09; 10-28-2010 at 09:19 PM.

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    Junior Member incbed's Avatar
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    2000 Z28 M6 Y3F

    I would look into getting a set of Katech connecting rod bolts.

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    Senior Member splitfinger09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incbed View Post
    I would look into getting a set of Katech connecting rod bolts.
    for $200 is this worth the money in my setup. what will I gain by installing these?

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
    for $200 is this worth the money in my setup. what will I gain by installing these?
    piece of mind is what you will get ..it is usually one of the first things to let go with our engines..the 98s especially

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    Member jb3golf's Avatar
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    DO THE ROD BOLTS!!!! Please don't put all that power into your engine and NOT change the ROD BOLTS. This is a key part to install. This is insurance to make sure your bottom end is sturdy and reliable. Katechs are nice (convenience wise), but if you don't want to spend that kind of money, just get ARP bolts and be done with it.

    I installed ARP's in my 98' Z28 and it was well worth it. Let us know what you figure out.

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    Junior Member incbed's Avatar
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    I also have the ARP 2000 connecting rod bolts,,I chose those because I have been a long time user of ARP products,,,but it appeared you you have the money (based on your list above) to buy the Katechs which are supposedly better than the ARP.

    BUT who really knows ,,my guess is they are just as good as the other.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    You guys do realize that it's generally a good idea to have the rods resized when installing new bolts. It's pretty much the industry standard. Even recommended by ARP themselves, if you read the instructions they usually supply with the bolts.

    Going through all that (new bolts and resize rods) also generally requires a rebalance of the engine as well. Building alot of engines and working around machine shops I've been through this alot.

    That's not to say you can't simply install bolts and get away with it. But it's not something I would personally recommend. If I were that worried about rod bolts in an engine, I'd probably just go through the whole short block and upgrade with better rods and pistons to begin with.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    You guys do realize that it's generally a good idea to have the rods resized when installing new bolts. It's pretty much the industry standard. Even recommended by ARP themselves, if you read the instructions they usually supply with the bolts.

    Going through all that (new bolts and resize rods) also generally requires a rebalance of the engine as well. Building alot of engines and working around machine shops I've been through this alot.

    That's not to say you can't simply install bolts and get away with it. But it's not something I would personally recommend. If I were that worried about rod bolts in an engine, I'd probably just go through the whole short block and upgrade with better rods and pistons to begin with.
    i did not know that

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    from katech's site

    "Gen 3 / 4 Rod Bolts Extensive testing by Katech for GM’s LS1 ASA engines showed the production rod bolt to be the weak link in the stock bottom end in the LS1 engines. Our rod bolt is the best you can get and fits production connecting rods without having to re-hone them to size. New for 2008, our connecting rod bolt has been redesigned to include the LS7."


    so it looks like for the katech ones no need to resize

  10. #10
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Don't mean to rain on anyones parade. I'm sure there are success stories out there with simply installing rod bolts on the LS engines. Just not something I recommend doing without going through the other machining processes.

    Reason being, those ARP bolts have a very high tensile strength, and require a much higher torque rating to reach the desired bolt stretch ARP wants to see. This generally distorts the rod, (which is why they want to resize the rods) which is cutting the cap down, bolting it together to the torque spec with the ARP bolts, and re-honing the big end to proper size making it round again.

    Without doing this, (if the rod is distorted) you tend to get uneven bearing wear, which can cause other issues. May work for a while. I doubt the success stories have logged 50,000 miles or more since just installing rod bolts and flying with it.

    Just food for thought.

    If Katech is getting away with it, then I would think their bolts are a weaker version of the ARP's. Porbably not requiring torque specs much more than stock bolts. In which case I'd have to wonder what makes them any stronger than the stockers. Don't know. Maybe just the material they are made of.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 10-20-2010 at 09:15 AM.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Don't mean to rain on anyones parade. I'm sure there are success stories out there with simply installing rod bolts on the LS engines. Just not something I recommend doing without going through the other machining processes.

    Reason being, those ARP bolts have a very high tensile strength, and require a much higher torque rating to reach the desired bolt stretch ARP wants to see. This generally distorts the rod, (which is why they want to resize the rods) which is cutting the cap down, bolting it together to the torque spec with the ARP bolts, and re-honing the big end to proper size making it round again.

    Without doing this, (if the rod is distorted) you tend to get uneven bearing wear, which can cause other issues. May work for a while. I doubt the success stories have logged 50,000 miles or more since just installing rod bolts and flying with it.

    Just food for thought.

    im just posted what katech said...there bolts arent arp and i dont know any specifics ..but katech is usually pretty good about being upfront

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    im just posted what katech said...there bolts arent arp and i dont know any specifics ..but katech is usually pretty good about being upfront
    I understand, and I don't know what is different about Katech bolts. I'm just throwing this out there from personal experiences. I just have a hard time straying from what I've been taught so I'll stick to it

    Mods just steamroll ya know, one thing leads to another, it never ends

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    Senior Member splitfinger09's Avatar
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    would now be a good time to replace the motor mounts? ive heard of people doing this, but not to sure what it helps.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
    would now be a good time to replace the motor mounts? ive heard of people doing this, but not to sure what it helps.
    omgzz yes!!!!!

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I understand, and I don't know what is different about Katech bolts. I'm just throwing this out there from personal experiences. I just have a hard time straying from what I've been taught so I'll stick to it

    Mods just steamroll ya know, one thing leads to another, it never ends
    i hear that....about 2k worth of suspension mods just to be able to put some power to the ground for my stall install drop 2k for a $800 part...only makes sense to gearheads

  16. #16
    Senior Member splitfinger09's Avatar
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    okay so now im even more comfused about the rod bolts lol would it just be best to leave them alone?

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
    okay so now im even more comfused about the rod bolts lol would it just be best to leave them alone?
    i wouldnt leave them alone .....you have three options...1. get the arp bolts and that is it. 2. get the arp bolts and resize the rods like you are supposed to (thanks firebird). 3. get the katechs and that is it ................i would do some searching on tech and see what people say about just slapping the katechs on and calling it a day ...they are the shop that built the c5.r and c6.r engines..so most trust what they have to say.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
    okay so now im even more comfused about the rod bolts lol would it just be best to leave them alone?
    That's up to you. According to Kaytech it's okay to change them without resizing. I personally don't follow that thought process but to each their own.

    It also involves removing the oil pan, and more than likely you'll have to jack the motor up or remove the K-member. I can't see myself squeezing in there without at least doing that. And quite frankly, I wouldn't do it with the engine in the car anyway, I'm not that ambitious and don't like working around tight areas or working on the bottom of the engine upside down.

    If it makes you feel any better I shift mine at 6500 without flinching and even occasionally have run to 6700 a few times. Doesn't really bother me on small blocks that have a relatively short stroke to spin them up on stock bottom ends.

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    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    I agree w/firebirdjones!.... set the rev limiter @ 6700 & call it a day!.. you'll be ok.... that
    cam's not gonna make much power after that anyway!

  20. #20
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRANS-DAD View Post
    I agree w/firebirdjones!.... set the rev limiter @ 6700 & call it a day!.. you'll be ok.... that
    cam's not gonna make much power after that anyway!
    tell that to the already weak connecting rods that have years and mileage on them...if you hit 400rwhp then it is advised to change them on our cars

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