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LS6 heads?

This is a discussion on LS6 heads? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; engine power systems cams,smaller durations numbers grate power.stock ls6 made 430 hp-415 tq with baby eps cam....

  1. #101
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    engine power systems cams,smaller durations numbers grate power.stock ls6 made 430 hp-415 tq with baby eps cam.

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    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnboy View Post
    Get it and find out , I have a lot of experance with LSX cars, those are to big for street cam , poor idel, stalling , stinking , ect to me thats not a DD street cam
    "Experience"

    Poor idle? I'll elaborate on this for you. Perhaps you're referring to the engine not creating enough vaccum to run power steering/power brakes.

    Stalling? Not if it's tuned properly

    Stinking? As in not burning excess fuel? Not sure where you're getting this from? Again, if tuned properly and creating enough spark, this won't be an issue. Hell, you can even throw of few gallons of cam 2 in it, so it'll be nice and "sweet"

    That's not a DD street cam to you? Perhaps not to you, but to others it may be. If my commute wasn't 100+ miles, round trip, everyday, I'd drive a TRex camm'ed LSx car, no problem. Most people on here claim to have alot of experience with these cars. I've got 11 years of research on these cars... but still, im no expert.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Eh, with a good tune it can be. I run that duration profile camshaft in a 454, also on a 110 but with .650+ lift.
    I can easily daily drive the car, it's very docile in traffic, but I also have a few more cubes to soak up that camshaft.

    It does not however make enough vacuum to support the power brakes, even with an extra reservoir. I had to switch over to hyrdaboost.
    This

  3. #103
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    I'm still surprised that there has been nobody to comment on my factory heads... nobody can help me out to figure out what they are?

    Maybe Lawnboy can help me, seeing as how he has alot of "experance"

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    Lot of know it alls on here but i bet you dont go with those cams, I know plenty of guys that did, only to take the cam out for a smaller more streetable cam

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightmareWS6 View Post
    Really? Some people say it is, some say it isnt. What is it really? Why would it be or not be good on the street? This car will be taken to the track some so it's not just for street use. And it will be a DD for a little while but only for a few months while I either save up to buy or fix my current DD.

    I'm coming up with a parts list of what all I'm going to do with it. This wont all be done at once but over time since I'm working with a poor college kid's budget lol with a minimum wage job. Then I guess that would be the point of reference for what would be good to do with the car.
    if you lose vacume to the point where u dont have power breaks thats not streetable

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Eh, with a good tune it can be. I run that duration profile camshaft in a 454, also on a 110 but with .650+ lift.
    I can easily daily drive the car, it's very docile in traffic, but I also have a few more cubes to soak up that camshaft.

    It does not however make enough vacuum to support the power brakes, even with an extra reservoir. I had to switch over to hyrdaboost.

    EHHH your talking a 454 , thats a ok cam for a big ci engine , we are talking about 346ci

    my cam is about the stock size camshaft thats in a LS7 427 for a 427 is average to small, for 346-362 is a bigger cam, in fact a lot of the design profile i used is based on smaller LS7 cams, because GM knowes what there doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Holy moly that's a huge spread on duration. That's more suited for a pair of cylinder heads that suck on the exhaust side,,,,or maybe someone that wants to run stock exhaust manifolds and really needs the extra help to get it out.
    *You got it and thats why it works so good in a stock head LS1 combo.

    it was really designed for Forced induction LS1/LS6/LS2 engines , the extra exhaust duration is all thats needed The blower forces the charge in , and filling small cyclinders with a D1/F1 procharger.

    I also set this cam up to work in NA cars with different specs,
    I used a 220/235 in a stock cube (364ci) LS2 made 820 hp.

    Small cams set up on the "right" profile make a better choice for street cars any day ,

    and what might look small on paper can act big with right motor combo

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    Quote Originally Posted by garygnu65 View Post
    engine power systems cams,smaller durations numbers grate power.stock ls6 made 430 hp-415 tq with baby eps cam.
    Yes Sir EPS (Geoff) owner is a awasome cam expert , we talked a few times and i Run one of his 215-230 cams, i learned a lot from him.
    He designed the TR Cheater cam for thunder racing by the way!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnboy View Post
    if you lose vacume to the point where u dont have power breaks thats not streetable
    I can't disagree with you on this one, however the feedback I've gotten from TRex owners, with the blip of the gas, there is no problem with power steering. As far as the power brakes go, the owners have told me they just stay "in sync" with the gears, in motion. The slower you go, stay in the gear that's low, no problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnboy View Post
    and what might look small on paper can act big with right motor combo
    And I am a firm beleiver in this as well. Hell, there's a video of a white camaro MS3 cam running a dark colored camaro with an MS4 cam, and the MS3 outmuscles the MS4 down this back road in a race. Can't remember how long it was, but the point was "the biggest cam doesn't always win". Why? Because, just like you said, it's all about combination, not big numbers.

    However, Thunder Racing specifically designed and grinded this cam to work with factory heads, port and flow characteristics. 450RWHP, cam-only with supporting mods? That's impressive! Whether the rest can be handled as a DD is on the owner... but this will more than likely be my next cam.

  10. #110
    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Lawnboy, what kind of heads do I have?

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    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    Damn man, you've been blowing this thread up, until now? This should be more than enough time to google it

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    I'm still surprised that there has been nobody to comment on my factory heads... nobody can help me out to figure out what they are?

    Maybe Lawnboy can help me, seeing as how he has alot of "experance"
    Thats a eazy one! , a 862 is a 5.3 head i guess your running around 11.2 to one compression if its on a LS1 and milled a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    I can't disagree with you on this one, however the feedback I've gotten from TRex owners, with the blip of the gas, there is no problem with power steering. As far as the power brakes go, the owners have told me they just stay "in sync" with the gears, in motion. The slower you go, stay in the gear that's low, no problems.



    And I am a firm beleiver in this as well. Hell, there's a video of a white camaro MS3 cam running a dark colored camaro with an MS4 cam, and the MS3 outmuscles the MS4 down this back road in a race. Can't remember how long it was, but the point was "the biggest cam doesn't always win". Why? Because, just like you said, it's all about combination, not big numbers.

    However, Thunder Racing specifically designed and grinded this cam to work with factory heads, port and flow characteristics. 450RWHP, cam-only with supporting mods? That's impressive! Whether the rest can be handled as a DD is on the owner... but this will more than likely be my next cam.

    Yeah back in the day when Absolute Speed was around , They were porting heads for all kinds of venders , LG , vette doctors, a shope in CT , and M2 in NJ hes a CNC machine shope he still uses AS port designs.

    As for a big duration cam like the ones your talking about , it designed to get those 220 cfm and 190 cfm ports to flow, Yes it will work , but you will end up with a cam thats not really streetable, your better off with a set of good ported or AFR's and a smaller camshaft , nice long tubes to go with it ,

    the cam only to me is a short cut , but not the best cut

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnboy View Post
    EHHH your talking a 454 , thats a ok cam for a big ci engine , we are talking about 346ci

    my cam is about the stock size camshaft thats in a LS7 427 for a 427 is average to small, for 346-362 is a bigger cam, in fact a lot of the design profile i used is based on smaller LS7 cams, because GM knowes what there doing
    GM designs their camshafts to be smooth idling and rather tame for a reason. Biggest reason being the mass public that buys these cars don't want doors shaking at a stoplight. Another is for emmissions reasons, they still have to pass smog. So they are limited in what they can do. It doesn't mean they know what they are doing, they are just working within the confines of the law. All this doesn't mean that a larger cam wouldn't work or wouldn't make more power.

    I realize the cube difference. Even in a 346 it's not all that big. I've run a 248/254 in a gen 1 350 sbc without issues, and it was a daily ride for me for 3 years.
    Even the 242/248 in my 454 only holds 3.5 inches of vacuum idling in gear, and 6 inches in neutral. So even in that engine it acts rather large. I've got a custom ground cam on the shelf I'm planning to stick in that's even bigger.
    We also run a custom cam in my fathers 455, with 268/272 at .050 numbers and it's also primarily a street car. I tuned it also, and it idles all day in traffic at 750 rpms, with a carb no less.

    With a good tune, these cams can be made to drive rather nicely. If they are stalling, loading up, stinking, then the tune needs work.
    It's not that they are too big for the street, It's a matter of what the person wants to deal with. For me a ~240ish at .050 cam is middle of the road. For others it's too big, and for some it's too small.

    Some want to make power with these 346's without digging into cylinder heads. That requires a 230ish-240ish camshaft to hit roughly 400 rwhp.
    Smaller cams can make similar power with a good cylinder head but that combo costs more money. It will idle smoother and produce more vacuum, but to some that's not really a concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawnboy View Post
    if you lose vacume to the point where u dont have power breaks thats not streetable
    Naaa,,,you just compensate with hyrdaboost

    I've found that I need about 12-13 inches to support a vacuum power brake system. A bit lower and an extra reservoir is needed.
    It doesn't take much of a camshaft to drop that low.

    My firebird with a 400 cubed motor has a 218-224 at .050 cam, and it barely holds 13 inches at idle. It works the brakes fine but it's nothing close to the 18 inches of vacuum it had with a stockish camshaft. Any lower and an extra reservoir is needed.

    Hydraboost is the way to go even when plenty of vacuum is present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Naaa,,,you just compensate with hyrdaboost

    I've found that I need about 12-13 inches to support a vacuum power brake system. A bit lower and an extra reservoir is needed.
    It doesn't take much of a camshaft to drop that low.

    My firebird with a 400 cubed motor has a 218-224 at .050 cam, and it barely holds 13 inches at idle. It works the brakes fine but it's nothing close to the 18 inches of vacuum it had with a stockish camshaft. Any lower and an extra reservoir is needed.

    Hydraboost is the way to go even when plenty of vacuum is present.
    If that cam would kill my power brakes, then what would be a good alternative that will keep my brakes working normally and safely but will still give me an evil sound get me around the 400bhp mark cam only with supporting mods?

    And what's hydraboost?

  17. #117
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    Firebirdjones is a Big cam lover, you cant argue with him, adding other equipment to make up for poor vacume because of a large cam install. Believe me those are big camshafts for the street , LS cars dont need cams that big to make good power.

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    Ok. Well that still doesnt answer the question about what would be a good cam then.

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    a 218/233 or a 220/230 or 224/224

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightmareWS6 View Post
    If that cam would kill my power brakes, then what would be a good alternative that will keep my brakes working normally and safely but will still give me an evil sound get me around the 400bhp mark cam only with supporting mods?

    And what's hydraboost?
    If you want to keep the vacuum assisted power brakes, I'd stay around the mid 220's to about mid 230's at .050. If you spread the lobe seperation that will also help produce more vacuum, as you won't have the overlap associated with tight lobe angles.
    Also manual trans cars are more forgiving when it comes to vacuum and power brakes. It's the auto's where it gets a bit tricky.

    Hydraboost setups are power brakes that are hydraulically assisted from the power steering pump. It was and still is standard issues on most 3/4-1 ton trucks for the last 40 years.
    It's now being retrofitted to many street rods and muscle cars. Not only does this eliminate any need for vacuum brakes, but the power assistance is phenominal. I have 2 vehicles with hydraboost.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 03-29-2010 at 02:28 PM.

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