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LS1 & $4k towards rebuild. what to do?

This is a discussion on LS1 & $4k towards rebuild. what to do? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Well what all is needed to get that running? Its not assymbled yet is it?...

  1. #21
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    Well what all is needed to get that running? Its not assymbled yet is it?

  2. #22
    autoconnectionllc.com 02transamce's Avatar
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    2007 Corvette
    Ebony

    Longblock=fully assembled bottom end(block,pistons,rods,cam,ect)and heads.you will need a intake,oil pan,electronics,and accessories.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  3. #23
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    It'll come with the CTS-v oil pan and no intake. So all you have to do is swap your LS1 oil pan off the old motor, along with the oil pump pickup tube of course, and then throw your current intake and fuel system on.

    From there it's a piece of cake, everything plugs in just as the LS1 did and will even run on the LS1 tune, but a good LS6 bin file tune would be recommended, so that's another added cost. I'd say mail order Frost for that.

    With simple bolt ons, headers, exhaust, free mods etc...along with a mail order tune from Frost, these motors right out of the crate will make about 370ish rwhp.

    For the money it's hard to beat, new motor, no miles on it, and warranty to boot.

    For a car you want to get back on the road with minimal issues and cash outlay, and little down time, that's the route I would go.

    You want more power with bigger plans down the road I'd probably scrap the whole LS1-6 idea and start looking at fresh LQ short blocks from places like Texas Speed. A 402 is a nice start, and then build from there to your taste.

    With a $4,000 budget this probably isn't the route to take however, especially if you are paying for all the labor involved as well. For that money, if you can swap an oil pan, an intake, and pull/install the motor yourself,,,,that LS6 crate looks like the best option for you.

  4. #24
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    Thanks to Firebirdjones and 02transamce!!!

    ive been looking for someone to tell me this simple info for a long while now
    makes a hell of alot more sense now.
    however. would you suggest the tSP 402/408 over the TSP 427 LS7? or the LS3 6.2?

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    Thanks to Firebirdjones and 02transamce!!!

    ive been looking for someone to tell me this simple info for a long while now
    makes a hell of alot more sense now.
    however. would you suggest the tSP 402/408 over the TSP 427 LS7? or the LS3 6.2?
    You're welcome.

    The other swaps you suggest would require various changes, wiring harness adaptors, extensions, etc...and more extensive tuning that more than likely would require dyno time, no simple mail order would work for those other options.

    I'm not familiar with TSP's 427 LS7,,,but I would assume they have switched that over to a wet sump oiling system. Otherwise the dry sump setup would open up an entirely new can of worms for a swap.
    The LQ based 402/408 would still require your wire harness adaptors, all of which are available, plug and play, just a little added expense. I think they come either way, with a 24 or 58 crank reluctor wheel.
    The LS3 is about the same situation although I think in crate form it only comes in a 58 reluctor wheel, which requires that adaptor box mentioned to run with your existing computer, that's more added expense. Not to mention that both the 427 and LS3 based motors with the large square port heads will require a different intake, again more added costs. These are reasons why I've said these LS platforms aren't all that swap friendly. Just seems to get more involved, parts don't interchange easily, and it costs more money.

    You'll just have to decide how much you want to spend, how much swap trouble you want to deal with, as well as tuning, and then make a choice.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 01-01-2011 at 03:05 PM.

  6. #26
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    With the TSP LS7 you can also upgrade to include the LS2/LS7 conversion kit that will include the LS2 timing cover with camshaft position sensor, LS2 valley cover, LS2 lifter trays, LS2 timing set, and the necessary cam sensor and knock sensor harness extensions that will be necessary to install any LS2 or LS7*engine in an LS1 vehicle.
    As for dry/wet sump...They offer 4 crankshafts...one of which is for dry-sump
    And it come in both 24X and 58X
    So all i need to do is swap my LS1 oil pan off the old motor, along with the oil pump pickup tube and then throw a (Fast?) TB and intake and fuel system on it?
    Then dyno tune it?

  7. #27
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    With the TSP LS7 you can also upgrade to include the LS2/LS7 conversion kit that will include the LS2 timing cover with camshaft position sensor, LS2 valley cover, LS2 lifter trays, LS2 timing set, and the necessary cam sensor and knock sensor harness extensions that will be necessary to install any LS2 or LS7*engine in an LS1 vehicle.
    As for dry/wet sump...They offer 4 crankshafts...one of which is for dry-sump
    And it come in both 24X and 58X
    So all i need to do is swap my LS1 oil pan off the old motor, along with the oil pump pickup tube and then throw a (Fast?) TB and intake and fuel system on it?
    Then dyno tune it?
    Sounds like alot of stuff is changed to make it swap friendly.

    Is this a real LS7 with it's specific 12 degree heads or just a put together 427 with generic 15 degree square port LS3 heads??
    Because that's where the real advantage to this swap would be.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Sounds like alot of stuff is changed to make it swap friendly.

    Is this a real LS7 with it's specific 12 degree heads or just a put together 427 with generic 15 degree square port LS3 heads??
    Because that's where the real advantage to this swap would be.
    ^^^
    umm...
    its a ls7 427 made for the LS1 platform
    its on texas-speed. com (ls1tech sponsor)
    --->under 98-02 F-Body
    --->Assymbled Engines
    --->427 & 440 cid LS7
    i was looking at the short block (availiable in cast iron and aluminum)

    and on crateenginedepot they have...
    P/N 12610435 LSX FI Intake Manifold Assembly
    Gen IV fuel injecitno nylon manifold used onthe 2009 Corvette Z06 LS7 engine
    Fully assembled with injectors, 90mm ETC throtle body and gaskets
    For use only with LS7 and LSX/LS7-style cylinder heads
    ***Must use Controller kit P/N 19243066

    they also have the LS3, LS6, and 4-barrel carb intakes if i wanted to go that route..but thatll probably be more expensive

    what about ignition coils, coil brackets, shields, plug wires, gaskets?
    and what do you think i should get for the TB and Intake.?
    Last edited by BashamWS6; 01-02-2011 at 12:16 PM.

  9. #29
    Member youngrigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    what about ignition coils, coil brackets, shields, plug wires, gaskets?
    and what do you think i should get for the TB and Intake.?
    Coils you will be fine with your stock ones, plug wires as well. Gasket depends on motor and heads used. TB and Intake aslo depends on motor used but cant go wrong with a Fast 92

  10. #30
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    Internals will stay stock for a long long while If i even change em

  11. #31
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    1986 Turbo 944

    I am starting this thread alittle late. I am still some what new to engine building I have just finished my first one and am fixing some issues I ran into along the way. But I am a 26 yr old and certified Mech but still am learning everyday.

    The engine I just got done building, I did most of the assembly myself.

    I bought a block with forged rods and pistons for 1800, 243 heads I bought rebuilt with upgraded springs for a steal due the owner never picking them up for 450, The cam and valve train from comp cams cost me a good 2k for everything to be upgraded, new water pump and gasket sets was a chunk around 500 all together, then add the ARP bolts to the whole project because stock bolts are recommended one time only bolts from stretching to torque yield.

    All this minus the labor I would charge someone has been around 5 k parts alone.

    I would do what someone mentioned earlier and start from the bottom and build there. If you find a good set of heads later then you can always install them for little cost. You can always build up later as you get more parts, if you are looking to get running again, the biggest thing is to insure quality in the parts you are using. Stock parts work for the most part.

    Upgrade valve pushrods to hi-tech or similar, springs are always a good choice. Look at your connecting rods and bolts. Then go from there.

    Just my thought.

  12. #32
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    ^^^
    umm...
    its a ls7 427 made for the LS1 platform
    its on texas-speed. com (ls1tech sponsor)
    --->under 98-02 F-Body
    --->Assymbled Engines
    --->427 & 440 cid LS7
    i was looking at the short block (availiable in cast iron and aluminum)

    and on crateenginedepot they have...
    P/N 12610435 LSX FI Intake Manifold Assembly
    Gen IV fuel injecitno nylon manifold used onthe 2009 Corvette Z06 LS7 engine
    Fully assembled with injectors, 90mm ETC throtle body and gaskets
    For use only with LS7 and LSX/LS7-style cylinder heads
    ***Must use Controller kit P/N 19243066

    they also have the LS3, LS6, and 4-barrel carb intakes if i wanted to go that route..but thatll probably be more expensive

    what about ignition coils, coil brackets, shields, plug wires, gaskets?
    and what do you think i should get for the TB and Intake.?
    Okay, I went to their website and looked around, here's my take.

    As far as the long blocks go, they do offer a 427 but it's LS3/L92 based so it doesn't have the larger bore,,,and doesn't come with real LS7 12 degree heads, it comes with LS3/L92 15 degree heads. They want $8200
    In my opinion, it's just a put together 427 with a small bore and so so heads.

    The 418 is also LS3 based with the same size bore, and also comes with the same LS3/L92 heads. They want $7859.

    In my humble opinion, it's not worth another $300 for a measly 9 cubes. You aren't getting the LS7 specific heads anyway with these packages, the bore size is the same, so the power difference will be very little if any at all.

    To see real power with a 427 package I would do the LS7 12 degree heads, I don't see that as a complete package. You would have to do a short block 427 and top it off with those heads (more money). I'd use the real 427 block for it's 4.125 bore instead of the smaller version. Or better yet use the LSX block, it can be taken to 4.250 if you like, or keep it at 4.125 and have plenty of rebuilds in the future.
    Those short blocks are $5695 for the 427 and $6095 for the LSX. $400 more dollars for a block that costs $2100 bare looks pretty good to me, with a larger bore, and room to grow. That's just my opinion if you are looking for cubes.

    Otherwise I'd probably just do a 402/408 LQ based build. With the right heads and cam it can easily top 500 rwhp. Depends on what you are looking for. There are so many scenarios it'll make your head spin. It's all a matter of budget.

  13. #33
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    Just read through all this and the op seems to be mia.

    In my opinion, if your not going to biuld the engine, then why not just buy a car someone else biult. that would probably save even more money than a crate engine.

    Personally, I was going to biuld an LQ4 but. the money to performance has not matched the old small blocks yet. I mean were talking about paying 5g for a short block. My knowledge with these engines is limited. I would really like to see what you guys can come up with for under 5g. I know when a ran numbers on the lq4 it jumped past that in a hurry. Especcially because in order to be worth it it has to make an ls2 look like a punk. Personally I still can't justifie going all out on a ls engine YET, I do pick up pennys too. haha.
    Last edited by Jay37; 01-02-2011 at 03:35 PM.

  14. #34
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    The LQ4 is basically the LS2 it's just in cast iron form instead of aluminum.

    The advantage to the LQ4 is for one,,,it's cheaper,,,,brand new bare block for $750. Probably the cheapest LS block out there to start with. You can build it cheaper than an LS2 aluminum version just from the block cost alone, but the rest of it is virtually the same.
    The other advantage is the cast iron block can be bored .030 at least. So there is room to grow later when it's refresh time.

    The draw back is that some don't like the extra 60-75 weight penalty. Not that big of a deal to me verses the other benefits.

    I do agree on the performance standpoint of money compared to the Gen 1 small blocks. It's still a bit pricey to build an LS motor. They haven't had the luxury of being around for 50+ years yet.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Okay, I went to their website and looked around, here's my take.

    As far as the long blocks go, they do offer a 427 but it's LS3/L92 based so it doesn't have the larger bore,,,and doesn't come with real LS7 12 degree heads, it comes with LS3/L92 15 degree heads. They want $8200
    In my opinion, it's just a put together 427 with a small bore and so so heads.

    The 418 is also LS3 based with the same size bore, and also comes with the same LS3/L92 heads. They want $7859.

    In my humble opinion, it's not worth another $300 for a measly 9 cubes. You aren't getting the LS7 specific heads anyway with these packages, the bore size is the same, so the power difference will be very little if any at all.

    To see real power with a 427 package I would do the LS7 12 degree heads, I don't see that as a complete package. You would have to do a short block 427 and top it off with those heads (more money). I'd use the real 427 block for it's 4.125 bore instead of the smaller version. Or better yet use the LSX block, it can be taken to 4.250 if you like, or keep it at 4.125 and have plenty of rebuilds in the future.
    Those short blocks are $5695 for the 427 and $6095 for the LSX. $400 more dollars for a block that costs $2100 bare looks pretty good to me, with a larger bore, and room to grow. That's just my opinion if you are looking for cubes.

    Otherwise I'd probably just do a 402/408 LQ based build. With the right heads and cam it can easily top 500 rwhp. Depends on what you are looking for. There are so many scenarios it'll make your head spin. It's all a matter of budget.

    so let me see if i get this
    your suggesting the 454 LSX? bored to 4.250
    then put the 12 Degree Heads from a LS7?
    is the 454 LSX a cast iron block?

  16. #36
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    so let me see if i get this
    your suggesting the 454 LSX? bored to 4.250
    then put the 12 Degree Heads from a LS7?
    is the 454 LSX a cast iron block?
    Well not exactly, that's just one scenario. I probably wouldn't bore it to it's max either. I'd like to leave room for a later refresh. That's a $2100 block, I wouldn't want to have to buy another one too soon

    Yes it is cast iron,,,and much heavier than an LQ based cast iron block.

    You don't have to do the 12 degree LS7 heads,,,I was just commenting that the 427 offered, and being somewhat advertised as an LS7 427 doesn't actually come with the LS7 12 degree heads. Just a set of L92/LS3 heads,,,in which case doesn't really make it any better than the 402/408/418 combos being offered.

  17. #37
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    Well I wanna stay aluminum so... Is there any heads better than those 12 degrees?
    Ls1camino says I'm caught up in the LS7 craze. I just wanna be different (which will probably be more expensive but still)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The LQ4 is basically the LS2 it's just in cast iron form instead of aluminum.

    The advantage to the LQ4 is for one,,,it's cheaper,,,,brand new bare block for $750. Probably the cheapest LS block out there to start with. You can build it cheaper than an LS2 aluminum version just from the block cost alone, but the rest of it is virtually the same.
    The other advantage is the cast iron block can be bored .030 at least. So there is room to grow later when it's refresh time.

    The draw back is that some don't like the extra 60-75 weight penalty. Not that big of a deal to me verses the other benefits.

    I do agree on the performance standpoint of money compared to the Gen 1 small blocks. It's still a bit pricey to build an LS motor. They haven't had the luxury of being around for 50+ years yet.
    My bad man... I never have been good with using words and such haha. I meant to say if I was to biuld an LQ4 it would have to make a stock LS2 look like a punk... So after market LQ4 vs stock LS2, I fell in love with the 05 06 goats, that why I say that.

  19. #39
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    basham, With all respect man. Most guys start with the small stuff, one piece at a time. A well matched top end kit,(heads, cam, headers, ect.) and good tune on your LS1 will go far. It will go farther than you might think, and be more of a goal vice dream. Talk to some of these guys that have done it and they will tell you, a 400+ engine is quite the street machine. Back in the day, when I was a lad I would just throw in gears, MillerMagic posi, stall, headers, tune, and shave the weight. That was it. an engine is just part of the battle if your really trying to go fast.
    Last edited by Jay37; 01-02-2011 at 08:54 PM.

  20. #40
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    jay.
    Yeah i planned to stay ls1 for a few more years however i need a rebuild and quoted at 4800...i said holy fuck. So i figure get some bigger cubes and go from there.
    Does anyplace sell the 427 with the bigge bore and the 12 degree heads?
    Or would you suggest piecing together the 454, with some heads?

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