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LS1 & $4k towards rebuild. what to do?

This is a discussion on LS1 & $4k towards rebuild. what to do? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by BashamWS6 Im not rushing into anything. Im sort of anal when it comes to this shit. Took ...

  1. #221
    Junior Member blackmagicturbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    Im not rushing into anything. Im sort of anal when it comes to this shit. Took me 5 months to find my car because i picked everything apart and over analyized. But this is the way i look at it.
    A- invest into the suspension of the car thats engine will take a shit shortly...its in the garage

    B- sell it and buy another ls1 (stock power again) and start from scratch with a ls platform that i planned to replace anyways

    C- sell it and buy whole different car loose the ws6... Which id rather not

    D- replace with a larger more powerful engine and get that platform in there and build up the rest of the car to support that kind of power (yes i realize this is backwards) but im not going to take it to the stip on a stock rear and tranny. Tempting yes but i think i can keep my foot light enough to keep it intact until i can get everything up to par

    E-???
    youll be fine!! ls3 then ? lol

  2. #222
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    One final question, Black magic if don't want to answer that's cool. But sounds like your turning work. If he came to you with the parts he listed, how much would you charge to give hime back a turn key ls3 car?
    Last edited by Jay37; 01-16-2011 at 08:42 PM.

  3. #223
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagicturbo View Post
    bashamws6 seems to know what he wants ,and ive seen plenty of stock a4 and m6 cars handle 400+ hosepower with stock rears for a long time, it just depends on how you drive it ..

    this car has been on the same stock rear for over a year now and its on a trans brake and slick with 2 stages .. just sayin there not as weak as people think

    Not a good idea.

  4. #224
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Not a good idea.
    Plus 1 I am NOT GOING TO ATTACH MY NAME to a car like that. just saying, what if it blows... Who is going to want work from you? In business you can't risk it. In personal work it's YOUR money, not your REPUTATION.

  5. #225
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    Basham. I agree you seem to be wise, and have a handle on things. Just do me a favor, talk to some people face to face before you make any calls, thats all. Later.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay37 View Post
    Basham. I agree you seem to be wise, and have a handle on things. Just do me a favor, talk to some people face to face before you make any calls, thats all. Later.
    Like i said. Im pretty anal about this
    And i will definantly make a stop by GREAD Tuning before they do anywork.

  7. #227
    Junior Member blackmagicturbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay37 View Post
    One final question, Black magic if don't want to answer that's cool. But sounds like your turning work. If he came to you with the parts he listed, how much would you charge to give hime back a turn key ls3 car?
    1400 dollars is more than enough to basically switch out a motor and add some electronics ,, it doesnt take that long for an EXPERIENCED camaro or firebird builder to put that together ...

  8. #228
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    2002 Camaro Z/28 Pewter

    The t56 may lose a bit of time compared to a stalled auto but thats what he has in the car so to compare the cost of a 4l80e and stall isnt far imo unless he had a stock 4l60e where an upgrade is a must. Jay I'll agree with you that this car should not be a track car and will EVENTUALLY pop the 10 bolt as to how long it takes who knows. But anyway I dont see it being more than 1300 to swap the motor either as long as basham supplies all the parts my buddy had one on his camaro done and they charged 500 but it was a direct motor swap. The things that will kill him are the fuel upgrades eventual rear end pcm tune, motor mounts ya know all the little shit. But most of that minus the ls3 adapters would be present in any engine swap. Basham what is actually wrong with your car if your driving it until august surely the motor isnt internally hurt.

  9. #229
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    started making a ticking noise....figured a bent pushrod or bad lifter..
    then it turned into a clunking so we took it to the dealership
    needs a rebuild.. bud they quoted a rebuild at $4800..

  10. #230
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    The t56 may lose a bit of time compared to a stalled auto but thats what he has in the car so to compare the cost of a 4l80e and stall isnt far imo unless he had a stock 4l60e where an upgrade is a must. .
    I believe what 35th was getting at is the fact that the T56 isn't a strong tranny in stock form for drag racing,,,not that it loses a bit of time.

    The output shafts in these things are a bit weak, and they snap after some repeat drag racing abuse if you are really driving the car to it's potential, I'm not talking granny launches at 3,000 rpms. You really need the viper (400 turbo style) output shaft.
    Another issue with them are the weak 3-4 shift forks, and the cheesy plastic bushings for quieter operation that mushroom under pressure. The sincros are another issue. When you really get after these things, popping clutches and banging gears, these weak areas start to show even in a stock engine. Add more power and the problems multiply.

    All in all, they really need to be gone through and beefed before alot of track use.
    Then there is the issue of other safety things that really should be considered. A car with this much power, on a sticky tire and faster than 11.49 requires a blow proof bellhousing per NHRA rules. As far as I'm concerned a blow proof should be used on any stick car that sees track time no matter how fast it is.
    A good driveshaft is another must. You don't want to go pole vaulting down the track when the stocker twists like a pretzel.

    You guys have already touched on the rearend. I've had the 10 bolt let go at speed (going into 3rd) in spectacular fassion and nearly put the car into the wall, not to mention oiled down the track and scared the crap out of the guy in the other lane.
    Do you really want that to happen to you? I'd recommend ditching the 10 bolt first and foremost. You are just tempting fate.

  11. #231
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    2002 Camaro Z/28 Pewter

    I was referring to jay's post about it being slower than a stalled 4l80e which wouldnt even really be a possibility here but your are right the t56 isnt the stoutest unit ever build. But they are rated to 450lbs of torque and many people run the stock unit without issue however with the high power levels it will probably go eventually. As long as he doesnt beat the crap out of the car too much it should be ok for now the 10bolt will break long before it does which would be my concern because breaking of t56's seems to be hit and miss from stock power to 500hp.

  12. #232
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    2002 Camaro Z/28 Pewter

    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    started making a ticking noise....figured a bent pushrod or bad lifter..
    then it turned into a clunking so we took it to the dealership
    needs a rebuild.. bud they quoted a rebuild at $4800..
    Basham if there is a clunking noise and it truly needs a full rebuild that motor probably wouldnt last more than a week in its current condition let alone months if its still running all these weeks later my guess is that it doesnt need one, but maybe its a simpler issue.

  13. #233
    Member youngrigo's Avatar
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    Looks like im going to need a new motor too! Took it to the track saturday and didnt end well....
    1967 Camaro - LS1 T56 project
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  14. #234
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    I was referring to jay's post about it being slower than a stalled 4l80e which wouldnt even really be a possibility here but your are right the t56 isnt the stoutest unit ever build. But they are rated to 450lbs of torque and many people run the stock unit without issue however with the high power levels it will probably go eventually. As long as he doesnt beat the crap out of the car too much it should be ok for now the 10bolt will break long before it does which would be my concern because breaking of t56's seems to be hit and miss from stock power to 500hp.
    Again, my T56 broke at 12K miles, which took me 6 years to accumulate that many miles so that just shows one how little I use to drive my car.

    If it can break on me with STOCK power, it can break on anyone, at any time.

  15. #235
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    2002 Camaro Z/28 Pewter

    Yes it can absolutely break on stock power as I said, but then again people do break built 4l60e's, 4l80e's, 12 bolts and 9" rearends on power that shouldnt even push the limit on those units. Is it the norm and does it happen often? No def not sounds like maybe you got a faulty part in the transmission that had a defect from the factory.The t56 is rated at 450ft lbs and the 4l60e is rated at 350ft lbs a stock ls1 cannot even begin to push 450lbs of torque. This is more of a worry here because he will be making more power but I wouldnt be all up in arms to overhaul the tranny because a few break on stock power. if that was the case people with 400rwp and a 12bolt would be constantly worrying at the track because a few others have broken them at that hp level.

  16. #236
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    It's the shock loads at the track. The worst part about them is probably the tiny output shaft, it's the size of the little 350 turbo/4L60E.
    If you aren't really dumping the clutch above 3,000 rpms, or the car simply doesn't hook, they tend to last.

    You get a car that bites, dump the clutch at 4,000 rpm or more,,,chances are good you'll twist the little output shaft or snap it in half. I've seen that happen with stock power. Not really due to a faulty shaft, they just aren't that strong, and the shock load is rough on them.

    Track conditions, how you drive, how often you visit the track all plays a roll. For me, the stock T56 and the stock 10 bolt are ticking time bombs if you are a weekend worrior. I'd prefer to bullet proof it all before any mishaps occur. I've broken alot of stick shift junk, I prefer to avoid it if I can.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I spoke to the owner of RPM transmission and he said he gets T56's in ALL THE TIME that have broken keys, bent shift forks, broken output shafts, etc from people with just bolt-on power and less. Which is not pushing the limit of the rated tq.

    This is one transmission shop out of thousands across America repairing T56's...probably often.

    So yes, I would say it's a common occurrence and that's why everyone here knows the weak links of the T56...because people post about their issues all the time.

    It's also more common than not that people break their 10-bolt on stock power. Do a search on here or over on Tech. The threads are countless on this information and from people speaking from real life experience.

    Are some running low ET's with stock tranny's and 10-bolts? Yes, there are a few.

    The fact is, no matter what everyone says here, we all get on our cars or we wouldn't own them...period.

    I don't care what GM rated something. They also made my speedometer go up to 155MPH. I guess that means I can take my car up to that speed and leave it there for long periods of time without repercussions...

    I'm not saying to go out and overhaul the whole car...but I would be prepared to have cash saved up to replace/upgrade for when it does happen...which could be anytime basically.

  18. #238
    Junior Member blackmagicturbo's Avatar
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    same goes for an engine with a warranty lol ,,just cause it has a warranty doesnt mean it wont blow up ...

  19. #239
    Member Jay37's Avatar
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    I don't want to keep the pissing going but, it is a 7.5 INCH 28 SPLINE axle... thats about as small as a V-8 equipped car qets. It's not my biuld or name.


    Also IMO every car should be track rated. If it will see a dyno it prolly needs to see a track. If your going to spend the money to TUNE it. Wouldn't you want to TUNE the WHOLE car? Even if it is not track destined, it is a good place to TEST everything, and make sure you don't twist or break something in a spot where you don't want to twist or break something.

    Also I was always taught before your going to cut corners on something you better know how to do it the right way.


    Also Mr. Grigo, what happened. please tell.

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    Member youngrigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay37 View Post
    Also Mr. Grigo, what happened. please tell.
    Im hoping for just a blown head gasket.... Took the car to the track and on my 4th run after it was done and heading back it started feeling wierd so i pulled over turned it off, checked the oil and everything looked ok. Turn it back on and now a whole bunch of white smoke kinda smelling like coolent. so call a tow truck get the car back home turn it on again to get it in the garage and now the motor is surging bad like if i would have had a cam in it and a whole bunch of white smoke.... But no knock! so im hoping (wishfull thinking) that its just a head gasket...

    I have yet to take a look at anything.. probably do it this weekend. Drain the oil and see what it looks like. then remove the heads and see what that looks like.

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