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Looking for help with a Cam.

This is a discussion on Looking for help with a Cam. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I am about to buy a new cam for my LS1 and was interested to find out if anyone had ...

  1. #1
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    Looking for help with a Cam.

    I am about to buy a new cam for my LS1 and was interested to find out if anyone had any good ideas on what to buy. I have my own preference in brand names so I dont want to hear brand names being flung around, I would just like to see some advice from people that know what the numbers mean, and that will shoot me some numbers to consider.
    My set-up is a 2002 Z28 with the following....
    3.73 LSD, Built up A4, TCI 2800 Stall, EFI Live programmer, Stock rotating assembly, High Volume oil pump, Patriot LS6 Stage II 64cc heads, FAST 90/90, 60Lb injectors, High Volume fuel pump, Double Roller adj. chain, Comp Cams 1.85:1 Roller Rockers, Comp Cams Pushrods, Dynotech stainless header system with gutted cats, MSD Coils/Wires, NGK plugs 2 steps cold.
    I have two spray kits, one for dry set-up set at 75, and another wet plate kit set for 150. I plan on using the 75 for the street and the 150 at the track.
    As far as what im looking for in character is I dont plan on doing serious racing with it, maybe a few passes every summer but mainly I want all around good power/tq while showing at least 450 peak Hp and the ability to kick the majorities ass!
    I am a decent tuner so tuning for power and drivabilty isnt a problem.
    Thanks for the help.....

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wheeler99WS6's Avatar
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    I dont know a whole lot about N2o applications but I would say if you get a cam around 230 or maybe even mid 230 duration you would be close to the 450hp goal. probably more around 420rwhp since your an A4 but becuase your an A4 I would go with a 114 LSA , 112 would put you into your powerband faster but you already have a stall and gears for that and a 114 LSA is a little easier to tune. Now remember I dont know anything about N2O so I would keep getting opinions on the duration numbers before you buy a cam. I dont know if most guys run symetrical cams or split cams for N2O.

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    because you plan on using 1.85 rockers, you cam choices will be somewhat limited.
    the ls6 cam responds well to spray.
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

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    well I have a 233/239, .595"/.603" and it works just fine with my 100 shot

  5. #5
    To the power you want through an auto (naturally aspirated) you would need a cam in the upper 230 lower 240 duration area. You'll also have to rethink your combo as the Patriot heads don't make the kind of power other ported stock castings do. And that converter, even with the spray, needs to be way looser than 2800RPM. Preferably not TCI too Finally those higher ratio rockers won't work with pretty much any aftermarket cam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    To the power you want through an auto (naturally aspirated) you would need a cam in the upper 230 lower 240 duration area. You'll also have to rethink your combo as the Patriot heads don't make the kind of power other ported stock castings do. And that converter, even with the spray, needs to be way looser than 2800RPM. Preferably not TCI too Finally those higher ratio rockers won't work with pretty much any aftermarket cam.

    If Patriot heads dont have the flow for that kind of power then how is it that Chevy High Performance netted 506Hp with the LQ9 Patriot heads, healthy cam, 1.7:1 rockers, and a factory LS6 intake???
    I realize that the LS6 style heads are slightly different but the flow numbers are nearly identicle.
    Just asking....

    Thank you though for all the help.

  7. #7
    Nitrous Tuner LS2Tuner's Avatar
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    Call the actual cam manufacture to get there recommendation!! That is the only way to do it properly.
    You don't want brand names so I won't give you any. But buying a off the shelf grind off of someone recommendation or off of there cars performance is not the best option.
    It would help greatly also if you have the exact weight your at for them to get your stick right.
    Also the comment about the conv. being too tight is wrong. It will loosen right up plenty on the bottle out of the gate. The bottle NEEDS NO loose converter. Remember your adding more tq than hp.
    We run MANY cars with stock converters on big bottle with awesome luck.
    Loose converters and big bottle equals too much rpm on the big end and mph always goes down.
    Put some stock used V-6 springs in the rear and throw out your dry kit. Blow 150 all the time now that the suspension isn't stiff you might hook a little better on the street.
    Theres my 2 cents take or leave it.
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CamaroCrazyChris View Post
    If Patriot heads dont have the flow for that kind of power then how is it that Chevy High Performance netted 506Hp with the LQ9 Patriot heads, healthy cam, 1.7:1 rockers, and a factory LS6 intake???
    I realize that the LS6 style heads are slightly different but the flow numbers are nearly identicle.
    Just asking....

    Thank you though for all the help.
    That's nice. GMHTP made 530HP out of a similar budget H/C setup from another vendor...

    But from what I've seen the Patriot heads seem to be the worst of the budget heads. They certainly don't flow as advertised, they dyno less, and they sure as shit don't perform at the track. There are MUCH better heads out there at the same price.

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    wow, if Patriot heads arent that good, then how in the world am i putting down 437/404 with Stage II Ls6 Style 59cc heads/FAST 90 and a little 224 cam...? i got the heads brand new for $900 assembled. whats better out there at THAT price, my friend...?
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    Nitrous Tuner LS2Tuner's Avatar
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    You answered your own ?.
    You get what you pay for!
    Getting your stock heads to outflow and assembling them with Better parts for the the same price if not cheaper.

  11. #11
    Nitrous Tuner LS2Tuner's Avatar
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    You answered your own ?.
    You get what you pay for!
    Getting your stock heads to outflow and assembling them with Better parts for the the same price if not cheaper.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    wow, if Patriot heads arent that good, then how in the world am i putting down 437/404 with Stage II Ls6 Style 59cc heads/FAST 90 and a little 224 cam...? i got the heads brand new for $900 assembled. whats better out there at THAT price, my friend...?
    That kind of power at full weight and you should see 120MPH traps near sea level. My guess is if you ever ran it, which I doubt, that it didn't come anywhere near that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    That kind of power at full weight and you should see 120MPH traps near sea level. My guess is if you ever ran it, which I doubt, that it didn't come anywhere near that.
    being that i have the stock 10-bolt and stock 3.42 gears you are right (soft launches so i dont blow the rear), 120 mph trap is out of the question. i have trapped 114-115mph when i did run the 1/4mi at KCIR last July in a mid 90° weather and a track temp of 130°+...

    this was also with the Ls6 intake on the car and SLP LM catback at the time (now have the FAST 90 and TSP TD's installed) and my numbers then were 409/386. i was up in KC at that time painting and porting my FAST 90...

    i have not been back to a 1/4mi track since July to test out my current setup...

    anything else you care to comment/inquire about, let me know...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    anything else you care to comment/inquire about, let me know...
    Those results seem right inline with everything I've seen with the Patriot headed cars. Hopefully you'll see some better air and the additional mods/power will translate into a respectable ET/trap.

    Edit: I can't get on Patriot's site here at work. But I can tell you that Patriots DOES NOT sell a stage II LS6 head will additional milling for $900 PRC and Livernois's heads do what they say they do (flow, power, and track times) and they do it for the same price as Patriot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    Those results seem right inline with everything I've seen with the Patriot headed cars. Hopefully you'll see some better air and the additional mods/power will translate into a respectable ET/trap.

    Edit: I can't get on Patriot's site here at work. But I can tell you that Patriots DOES NOT sell a stage II LS6 head will additional milling for $900 PRC and Livernois's heads do what they say they do (flow, power, and track times) and they do it for the same price as Patriot.
    i will gladly keep you informed...

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    TEA does as good or better than anbody else with their porting of stock castings IMHO. Google Total Engine Airflow. A little more than than Patriot/PRC heads but worth it. LS6 are $1799 stage II. 5.3's a little less.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SOMbitch View Post
    TEA does as good or better than anbody else with their porting of stock castings IMHO. Google Total Engine Airflow. A little more than than Patriot/PRC heads but worth it. LS6 are $1799 stage II. 5.3's a little less.
    I used to think the same way too with their reputation and all. However I just saw a set of their 5.3's flow much less than advertised (advertised at 310cfm vs 296cfm actual at .600"; rest of lifts were just as poor). This is on a bench where AFR, PRC, and GTP flowed exactly as advertised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    being that i have the stock 10-bolt and stock 3.42 gears you are right (soft launches so i dont blow the rear), 120 mph trap is out of the question. i have trapped 114-115mph when i did run the 1/4mi at KCIR last July in a mid 90° weather and a track temp of 130°+...

    this was also with the Ls6 intake on the car and SLP LM catback at the time (now have the FAST 90 and TSP TD's installed) and my numbers then were 409/386. i was up in KC at that time painting and porting my FAST 90...

    i have not been back to a 1/4mi track since July to test out my current setup...

    anything else you care to comment/inquire about, let me know...
    That money you blew on Patriot heads would have been better spent towards a rear end. imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    I used to think the same way too with their reputation and all. However I just saw a set of their 5.3's flow much less than advertised (advertised at 310cfm vs 296cfm actual at .600"; rest of lifts were just as poor). This is on a bench where AFR, PRC, and GTP flowed exactly as advertised.
    Never seen'em on a bench but a friend with an A-4, an upper 22x/22x cam, LS6IM, pacesetters and TEA ported LS6 heads is running mid 11's. I would be happy with that. Don't remember his dyno #'s but I'll find out.

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