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Lobe Sep.

This is a discussion on Lobe Sep. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; 237/242 .603-.609 112ls-----will It Work Good With A 3000 Stall, 3:73 @ Will The 112ls Threaten Valve/piston Clerance? What Computer ...

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    Lobe Sep.

    237/242 .603-.609 112ls-----will It Work Good With A 3000 Stall, 3:73 @ Will The 112ls Threaten Valve/piston Clerance? What Computer Mods Will I Need? Full Exh. Ls6 Int. Already In, Will Bigger Injectors, Fuel Pump, Fuel Rails & Aftermarket Ignition Be Needed? Help!!!

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    is this for the stock motor? you might need to notch the pistons.

    you will need to have a tune done. timing, fuel, the works.

    i don't see a need to upgrade the fuel system or ignition.

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    Ms3?

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    man I have a 238/242 .605/.610 110LSA cam and I did not have to notch pistons
    I know a guy with a 246/254 .615/.625 110LSA cam that did not have to notch pistons
    So you will be fine

    Fuel system should be fine as well as you stock coil's
    but I would get some NGK's and nice plug wires
    Mike Berry
    2000 TransAm WS6 A4
    ASC#6552

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    Quote Originally Posted by BerryWS6 View Post
    man I have a 238/242 .605/.610 110LSA cam and I did not have to notch pistons
    I know a guy with a 246/254 .615/.625 110LSA cam that did not have to notch pistons
    So you will be fine

    Fuel system should be fine as well as you stock coil's
    but I would get some NGK's and nice plug wires
    Dude, you cannot make a blanket statement like that. The duration is not the only thing that will decide if you have to flycut or not. The ramp rate has a lot to do with it. Would you be willing to pay for his motor if he installls this cam and it trashes his motor?

    On another note, the original cam you asked about looks like a MS3. If it is TSP has stated that you do not have to flycut if you use a stock gasket.

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    All I am saying is unless he has heads with bigger than stock vavle he should be fine with the MS3

    I just hate it when poeple ask if they have to fly cut with a small to medium size cam when hundreds of poeple have this cam and its works great

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    Quote Originally Posted by BerryWS6 View Post
    All I am saying is unless he has heads with bigger than stock vavle he should be fine with the MS3

    I just hate it when poeple ask if they have to fly cut with a small to medium size cam when hundreds of poeple have this cam and its works great
    I agree with you on the fact that a little research would have helped here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BerryWS6 View Post
    man I have a 238/242 .605/.610 110LSA cam and I did not have to notch pistons
    I know a guy with a 246/254 .615/.625 110LSA cam that did not have to notch pistons
    So you will be fine

    Fuel system should be fine as well as you stock coil's
    but I would get some NGK's and nice plug wires

    Those are HUGE cams. Must be strictly drag huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by QUIK SILVA View Post
    237/242 .603-.609 112ls-----will It Work Good With A 3000 Stall, 3:73 @ Will The 112ls Threaten Valve/piston Clerance? What Computer Mods Will I Need? Full Exh. Ls6 Int. Already In, Will Bigger Injectors, Fuel Pump, Fuel Rails & Aftermarket Ignition Be Needed? Help!!!
    The 112 has NOTHING to do with valve clearence issues. Valve lift will determine clearence issues NOT lobe seperation.
    Also your statement is WAY to general your missing muck info.........
    Such as motor size,stock heads,vehical,weight,tire dia.,& all motor......big bottle,ect.
    Not to mention what the usage....Daily driver weekend street racer or drag car.....???????????
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    The 112 has NOTHING to do with valve clearence issues. Valve lift will determine clearence issues NOT lobe seperation.
    Also your statement is WAY to general your missing muck info.........
    Such as motor size,stock heads,vehical,weight,tire dia.,& all motor......big bottle,ect.
    Not to mention what the usage....Daily driver weekend street racer or drag car.....???????????
    You sir are incorrect. Duration, ramp rate, and lobe seperation are what determines ptv. The cam he is asking about will clear on a stock gasket and unmilled head. However if you moved it to a 122 lsa it probably would not clear. The key point on determining ptv is IVO. The wider the lsa the farther you move the IVO up, therefore causing more likely PTV issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FASTSS View Post
    You sir are incorrect. Duration, ramp rate, and lobe seperation are what determines ptv. The cam he is asking about will clear on a stock gasket and unmilled head. However if you moved it to a 122 lsa it probably would not clear. The key point on determining ptv is IVO. The wider the lsa the farther you move the IVO up, therefore causing more likely PTV issues.
    Sorry but YOU better read some more info!!! On 800" 5.5" bore pro mod motors that run 4 stages of nitrous only use 118 lsa!!
    EVEN THE 632 THAT WE BLOW 650 THROUGH ONLY USES 116!! And that runs mid 6's in PSCA....
    Let me know who makes anything near 122 and what motor it could even run on. Then we'll all get a laugh.
    I guess you know Quik Silva since he stated nothing about what motor he has and weather it's stock also......
    Let me know too who even looks at what the cam is ground on to determine piston to valve issues. A first for me and everyone else at the machine shop.

    In the real world you would NEVER run anything over 116 and that is still VERY high. It would be so lazy on the motor.......Now it would run on a 500 shot though!!

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    Senior Member Street Lethal's Avatar
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    Lift has little effect on piston to valve clearance. Duration and VE's is what you want to be on the lookout for....
    Last edited by Street Lethal; 01-18-2007 at 02:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Lethal View Post
    Lift has little effect on piston to valve clearance. Duration and VE's is what you want to be on the lookout for....

    Exactly Besides working at a machine shop I sold motor parts at the speed shop for 8 years......
    And I NEVER had anyone ask including all the manufactures what lsa it was cause they were trying to determine weather they had enough piston to valve clearence!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    Sorry but YOU better read some more info!!! On 800" 5.5" bore pro mod motors that run 4 stages of nitrous only use 118 lsa!!
    EVEN THE 632 THAT WE BLOW 650 THROUGH ONLY USES 116!! And that runs mid 6's in PSCA....
    Let me know who makes anything near 122 and what motor it could even run on. Then we'll all get a laugh.
    I guess you know Quik Silva since he stated nothing about what motor he has and weather it's stock also......
    Let me know too who even looks at what the cam is ground on to determine piston to valve issues. A first for me and everyone else at the machine shop.

    In the real world you would NEVER run anything over 116 and that is still VERY high. It would be so lazy on the motor.......Now it would run on a 500 shot though!!
    So what you are saying is that LSA has no affect on where the IVO is?

    By the way the 122 was just an example of how widening the LSA would affect the VE. I know good and well that a 122 LSA wouldn't be worth a shit on a NA motor. But there are more cams out there than you think that run a wider LSA than what you are thinking. I know of a couple that were designed for the new LS7 that run a 118. One of the factory cams for the LS6 runs a 117.5.

    Oh and by the way, you admitted that you were wrong on the fact that lift determines PTV here:


    Originally Posted by Street Lethal
    Lift has little effect on piston to valve clearance. Duration and VE's is what you want to be on the lookout for
    ....

    Exactly Besides working at a machine shop I sold motor parts at the speed shop for 8 years......
    And I NEVER had anyone ask including all the manufactures what lsa it was cause they were trying to determine weather they had enough piston to valve clearence!!
    True that you may have never been asked the LSA on a cam when determining the PTV, but if they didn't ask for the IVO, how in the world did they determine whether it would fit or not?

    The IVO is a function of LSA and Durataion. True I would never spec a cam out by LSA, it should just fall where it may by placing the VE's and duration like you want them, but it will have an effect on the PTV with a given duration.

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    By the way the stock LS7 cam is a 120. I guess Gm is full of idiots huh? And we all know how lazy a LS7 is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FASTSS View Post
    By the way the stock LS7 cam is a 120. I guess Gm is full of idiots huh? And we all know how lazy a LS7 is.
    Well FASTSS actually it is a none published spec. And we just rolled one over on the tell tale wheel and it's 121.
    But the ONLY reason for that is the duration #'s.
    But you already knew that. It's freaking 211 and 230 @ .050"
    Which is a VERY LARGE spread. So to get away from all that overlap which would NEVER pass emissions they had to put it on a 121 lsa. So once again the ONLY reason they did that was for vac.,emissions, & and to clean up the LARGE spread.
    That's the ONLY way they could get the high horse power #'s for publishing and advertisement.

    No one puts aftermarket grinds like that other than the manufacture!!!
    That's why they(LS motors) love tight lsa's and build soo much more power!! It wakes them up like NO tomarrow. Most manufactures only offer 116 being the highest not to mention NO where near a the spread of duration on that stock cam!!!
    Heres a list you can view for the examples....... As you can see unless your going for that baby cam with stock idle it will be on a 112,110, or 108.
    http://www.holley.com/types/Chevrole...c%20Roller.asp

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    LG Motorsports G7X3: $350 shipped
    used in dyno test only
    228/240@.050 .622/.644 lift 118LSA (1.8RAR)
    __________________
    By the way, I never said that there was a performance advantage to a wide LSA. The only reason I brought it up was as an example of how a wide LSA could advance The IVO to the point of PTV interference.

    BTW I got the 120 from Katech.

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    Nitrous Tuner LS2Tuner's Avatar
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    No big deal........ Just have to remember where we are and how many kids are on here every day that are already lost!! Now they are walking into the speed shop asking for a 120 or 118 cam. If you talk to any of the BIG companys or look in their catologs........Look at the MOUNTAIN motor solid rollers and they'll have that 118.
    And that LG cam has way more of a spread than needed also. No point!!

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    Kind of hard to argue with the results of LG's cam though. You have to remember that the reason for the large split of that cam is that is was designed for LS7 heads, which have relatively poor exhaust flow(compared to the intake).
    The split on Katechs Torquer cam for the LS7 is 24degrees. 220x244.

    Personally I trust them to know what the hell they are doing

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    k well I guess COMP,CRANE,& LUNATI are confused. Maybe they'll start copying these small fly by night companys.

    We will continue building race motors with out any confusion on what lsa we need or run to gain power.

    I'm done with this obviously you arenb't going to see the light.

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