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identifying heads?

This is a discussion on identifying heads? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I didn't see any threads discussing this exact question. I thought I would throw this out there. Do you identify ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    identifying heads?

    I didn't see any threads discussing this exact question. I thought I would throw this out there.

    Do you identify heads strictly by the casting number? The only reason I ask is I see so many ebay auctions listing heads as LS1, LS2, LS6, LQ this LQ that, 6.0L this 5.3L, Truck, Escalade, Vette, blah, blah, etc.

    Obviously any of the info I blow off as possibly right, but also could be completely wrong.

    So is a 243 cast head a 243 no matter what engine is was slapped on by GM?

    The question really applies to any casting number, I'm just picking on 243 in my example.

    i have no knowledge or experience in this area, so my head is spinning like crazy trying to understand the different heads, and such.

    I was trying to use Hi-Pos sticky for help, but found i was still in it deep over my head.

    Horsepower, Reading, Research, Options


    thanks

    kool-aide

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    LSwut tep98ws6's Avatar
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    Oh boy, I found a really great write up on this exact information last night and now I can't find it. I'll keep trying.

  3. #3
    933 and 806 - early LS1
    853 and 241 - late LS1
    243 - LS6, LS2, and some LM4 and LS4
    862 and 706 - LM7 and LR4
    799 - some LS2, some LM7, some LM4 , some LS4 and some LR4
    873 - early LQ4
    317 - late LQ4, LQ9
    035 - LQ9

    LR4 = 4.8
    LS4, LM4 and LM7 = 5.3
    LS1 and LS6 = 5.7
    LS2, LQ4, and LQ9 = 6.0

    LS1 used in Camaro, Firebird, GTO, and Corvette
    LS6 used in Corvette and CTS-V
    LS2 used in CTS-V, Corvette, GTO, and Trailblazer
    LQ4, LQ9, LM7, and LR4 all trucks
    LM4 SSR, Trailblazer, Isuzu
    LS4 Impala, Monte Carlo

    I think that's right... I'm probably forgetting something.
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 12-16-2009 at 09:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep98ws6 View Post
    Oh boy, I found a really great write up on this exact information last night and now I can't find it. I'll keep trying.
    ok, thank you. I will be glued to my seat waiting until you do, lol.

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    Member NoscamaroSS's Avatar
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    Heres a little more info:

    http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php
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    *Old Time* 10.90@ 125mph

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    Casting #'s:
    853 97-00 aluminum 5.7
    241 01-03 aluminum 5.7
    243 LS6 aluminum 5.7
    852 and 706 99 and up 4.8-5.3 truck heads
    873 99-00 LQ4 6.0 iron heads
    317 01 and up LQ4 6.0 aluminum heads
    035 02 and up LQ9 6.0 aluminum heads


    Casting Number 806 or 933
    LS1 (Perimeter Bolt)
    97-98 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 66.67cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 853 or 241
    LS1 (Center Bolt)
    99-00 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette (853)
    01+ 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette (241)
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 66.67cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 243
    LS6
    01+ 5.7L Corvette
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 64.45cc
    Intake Port Volume: 210cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 75cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 706
    LM4 / LM7
    99+ 5.3L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 61.15cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 1.89 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 852
    LR4
    99+ 4.8L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 61.15cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 1.89 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 317 or 035
    LQ9
    01+ 6.0L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 71.06cc
    Intake Port Volume: 210cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 75cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches


    LS6 exhaust ports are shaped like a D, LS1 exhaust ports are round.


    So far...
    Last edited by tep98ws6; 12-16-2009 at 09:39 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    933 and 806 - early LS1
    853 and 241 - late LS1
    243 - LS6, LS2, and some LM4 and LS4
    862 and 706 - LM7 and LR4
    799 - some LS2, some LM7, some LM4 , some LS4 and some LR4
    873 - early LQ4
    317 - late LQ4, LQ9
    035 - LQ9

    LR4 = 4.8
    LS4, LM4 and LM7 = 5.3
    LS1 and LS6 = 5.7
    LS2, LQ4, and LQ9 = 6.0

    I think that's right... I'm probably forgetting something.

    I guess what has me confused is what significance is the cast number. I mean if GM ran say 3 different heads and gave them 3 different part numbers, but where all the same cast number. Does this make them equal?

  8. #8
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep98ws6 View Post
    Casting #'s:
    853 97-00 aluminum 5.7
    241 01-03 aluminum 5.7
    243 LS6 aluminum 5.7
    852 and 706 99 and up 4.8-5.3 truck heads
    873 99-00 LQ4 6.0 iron heads
    317 01 and up LQ4 6.0 aluminum heads
    035 02 and up LQ9 6.0 aluminum heads


    Casting Number 806 or 933
    LS1 (Perimeter Bolt)
    97-98 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 66.67cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 853 or 241
    LS1 (Center Bolt)
    99-00 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette (853)
    01+ 5.7L Passenger Car and Corvette (241)
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 66.67cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 243
    LS6
    01+ 5.7L Corvette
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 64.45cc
    Intake Port Volume: 210cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 75cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 706
    LM4 / LM7
    99+ 5.3L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 61.15cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 1.89 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 852
    LR4
    99+ 4.8L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 61.15cc
    Intake Port Volume: 200cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 70cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 1.89 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches

    Casting Number 317 or 035
    LQ9
    01+ 6.0L Truck
    Material: Aluminum
    Combustion Chamber Volume: 71.06cc
    Intake Port Volume: 210cc
    Exhaust Port Volume: 75cc
    Intake Valve Diameter: 2.00 inches
    Exhaust Valve Diameter: 1.55 inches


    LS6 exhaust ports are shaped like a D, LS1 exhaust ports are round.


    So far...
    so...maybe this information helps me with my question. I seems the casting numbers are the same across part numbers and mean the world to identifying a head. I mean when you have someone pull every part off a car and start ebaying the heck out of it. It matters what the casting number is. Well that is if you are searching for a specific head or something like that.

    thanks for the fast find.

  9. #9
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoscamaroSS View Post
    Heres a little more info:

    http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php
    thanks i have seen that page too, but didn't really connect the dots.

    what i was trying to do was figure out if you could use the casting number as a sure fire way to get the heads you want.

    An example would be shopping ebay for a super cheap set of LS6 heads. I wanted to be able to ask for photos of the casting number to verify it is a 243 or 799 head. I was hoping the casting number was a super simple easy way to find the head i want.

    I mean i can't rely on some one posting info in their auction about where they got it from or what they think it fits. I mean shoot, every lists practically every part as an LS1 part, lol...

  10. #10
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    I'm also curious now about the exhaust ports. As mentioned above the LS6 243s are a D shape, while the LS1 241s are a round shape. I'm no rocket scientist but it would seem like a bad idea to drop the 243s on my LS1. I wouldn't have matching ports. Am I on track with this idea or looney.

    My goal was to lay in wait looking for that killer auction deal. You know, like that guy you know that got something for like 20 bucks and you said no freakin way man.

    I also need my daily driver. So if I ever did get my wife to agree. I would want a second set to send out for work so I have no down time. Kind of sucks, but my wife hates driving me to work when the car is out of order. And I can't justify the deep cost of aftermarket heads. I'm not building a race car, or even an 11s second toy. I just want to goof off some times. Heck who knows what i will do, but I'm sure it will involve something getting broken.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    no you want 243s on your ls1..for the simple fact that the 243s will flow much more on intake and exhaust compared to the ls1 castings...so D shape or not it will flow better exhaust wise...i believe they went to a D shape for exhaust flow characteristics...

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    LSwut tep98ws6's Avatar
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    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answe...s6-article.pdf

    go read down page 8-10 ... pretty good explanation on the ports ... i tried to copy & paste to quote but no such luck

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    I guess what has me confused is what significance is the cast number. I mean if GM ran say 3 different heads and gave them 3 different part numbers, but where all the same cast number. Does this make them equal?
    If the casting number is the same, the heads are identical. Where most people get confused is when GM uses the same casting number cylinder heads with different part numbers like you describe. The difference there is the parts installed on the heads, mainly the valves and springs.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    If the casting number is the same, the heads are identical. Where most people get confused is when GM uses the same casting number cylinder heads with different part numbers like you describe. The difference there is the parts installed on the heads, mainly the valves and springs.
    gotcha, so my idea of going by the casting number is a good way to go. thanks.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    no you want 243s on your ls1..for the simple fact that the 243s will flow much more on intake and exhaust compared to the ls1 castings...so D shape or not it will flow better exhaust wise...i believe they went to a D shape for exhaust flow characteristics...
    i will go check out the article posted.

    would you still go with 243s over the 241s knowing you would send them out for work?

    Do you know if the port shape has a good transition, like an overlap or anything that makes it Worth the shape change? What I am thinking of is of the D shape port was bigger than the header round shape. You would have fluid colliding and gettin all funky in the flow. But my guess would be if the round port on the header was bigger than the D on the head. You would get a change but maybe a more favorable change? I'm just making crazy guess since I have no idea what I am doing, and have never seen any of these parts.

    My only thought or interest in the 243s or 799s was to make an improvement with less shop cost. I mean sure I could spend the kids college fund on working over the 241s or just take like some 243s or 799s and have the deck cleaned and be done. I guess the real hunt is waiting ever so patiently for that deal to come by and strike when no one is paying attention, . yeah that could take forever. But understanding the casting numbers narrows the watch and keeps a focused eye.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep98ws6 View Post
    http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answe...s6-article.pdf

    go read down page 8-10 ... pretty good explanation on the ports ... i tried to copy & paste to quote but no such luck
    that was a fun read. i liked the side by side photo of the to exhaust ports. although i felt the article glossed over why they made the change. maybe the D shape is desired because of where the air comes from and the path it takes. Maybe the D is a better shape for the path of the flow, just a silly guess.

    it also seems as if the two ports are super close in size, well judging by the photo.

    thanks for the link. i wonder is the Z06 have port matched exhaust manifolds. I'm guessing they don't since the article was comparing LS1 to LS6 changes and that wasn't one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    that was a fun read. i liked the side by side photo of the to exhaust ports. although i felt the article glossed over why they made the change. maybe the D shape is desired because of where the air comes from and the path it takes. Maybe the D is a better shape for the path of the flow, just a silly guess.
    it also seems as if the two ports are super close in size, well judging by the photo.

    thanks for the link. i wonder is the Z06 have port matched exhaust manifolds. I'm guessing they don't since the article was comparing LS1 to LS6 changes and that wasn't one of them.
    You are right in this statement, The physics of airflow can be a difficult thing to explain as far as WHY?, Unless someone has their own Flowbench, we've gotta go by what GM and the Performance mags. tell us as far as the flow numbers. But the longer you immerse yourslef in this information, and study other cylinder heads and port designs, some of it will begin to make sense. Just my .02 .

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    i will go check out the article posted.

    would you still go with 243s over the 241s knowing you would send them out for work?

    Do you know if the port shape has a good transition, like an overlap or anything that makes it Worth the shape change? What I am thinking of is of the D shape port was bigger than the header round shape. You would have fluid colliding and gettin all funky in the flow. But my guess would be if the round port on the header was bigger than the D on the head. You would get a change but maybe a more favorable change? I'm just making crazy guess since I have no idea what I am doing, and have never seen any of these parts.

    My only thought or interest in the 243s or 799s was to make an improvement with less shop cost. I mean sure I could spend the kids college fund on working over the 241s or just take like some 243s or 799s and have the deck cleaned and be done. I guess the real hunt is waiting ever so patiently for that deal to come by and strike when no one is paying attention, . yeah that could take forever. But understanding the casting numbers narrows the watch and keeps a focused eye.
    yes i would still go 243s

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    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    that was a fun read. i liked the side by side photo of the to exhaust ports. although i felt the article glossed over why they made the change. maybe the D shape is desired because of where the air comes from and the path it takes. Maybe the D is a better shape for the path of the flow, just a silly guess.

    it also seems as if the two ports are super close in size, well judging by the photo.

    thanks for the link. i wonder is the Z06 have port matched exhaust manifolds. I'm guessing they don't since the article was comparing LS1 to LS6 changes and that wasn't one of them.

    LS1=200cc intake
    ls6=210cc

    LS1=70cc exhaust
    LS6=75cc

    LS1 66.67cc chamber
    LS6 64.45cc

  20. #20
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davebowtie View Post
    You are right in this statement, The physics of airflow can be a difficult thing to explain as far as WHY?, Unless someone has their own Flowbench, we've gotta go by what GM and the Performance mags. tell us as far as the flow numbers. But the longer you immerse yourslef in this information, and study other cylinder heads and port designs, some of it will begin to make sense. Just my .02 .
    how about i leave work in the rear view and just play games, .

    I agree thanks. I never had the opportunity to use any cool equipment. All I can't was a book, a professor that barely spoke English, and a migraine, and none of the fluids and dynamics we discussed used car examples.

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