How much HP with the MS4 cam?

[Pontiaco]

Just wondering how much power will this cam will make with some good heads and intake on a stock bottom end 2002 t/a? getting ready to spend some $$$$. looking for 550 hp+

[SS201]

My 2002 Camaro SS has the MS4 cam, with LS6 intake, stock bottom and comp cam springs, valves and rockers. right now it is under tuned and I would guess im doing about 430'sh horses. I think 550 wouldn't be very far from but you would need a very good tune, maybe bigger heads. My SS has Pacesetter headers, drag cut out and Hooker exhaust. The guy who had it before me was a GM tech and used to run it on the strip. He said he was able to catch high 11's on the quarter with drag slicks and bigger fuel rail and injectors. My car only has 37K miles on it. I'm now deployed with the military and before coming here I had some issues with fuel and vacuum, which is the only reason my car is not tuned to max performance.
IMO its a good investment, im happy with the MS4's performance so far.

[SMWS6TA]

Raul, Do you have the rear and the suspension mods to support the increase in power?

Don't get me wrong, The MS4 is on my list of items to get, but if your running on the stock 10 bolt rear you have a very, very high chance of blowing the rear as soon as you put your foot to the floor above 430 RWHP. It if not if but when. Best bet is to do suspension and rear mods prior to putting power first. That way you have a solid foundation to build on, instead of fixing every time you go for a drive.


Frank (SS201) - Are you running it with stock heads? I'm about half way done with my suspension mods and am seriously looking at picking it up. But I know I can't do a heads/Cam combo so I'm going to be piecing it together until I get it all. How does it ride on the street? Mine is not a DD but I do drive it on the weekends.

[Pontiaco]

I'm getting a 12 bolt soon and a t56 from rockland standar gear,already have the exaust in it!
hey ss201,did it run ok with a/c?

[SS201]

Yeah mine is also a DD. The previous owner told me that with the MS4 it is the biggest lift cam you can do without having to switch out for bigger heads. It rides nice, you can definitely tell it has a big lift cam. I dont usually hammer down on the gas and it does fairly well on gas. It idles rough and shakes the engine on idle alone. I also have 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears mods with a 3600 Stall, its an A4 trans. I'm sure it has had something on the rear, I don't exactly know but it has been mod'd also. It's sub-frame connectors and stock suspension.

[SS201]

Yes, my SS works just fine, it idles down a bit when the A/C kicks in but I have not had any problems with it.

[Pontiaco]

wat's DD?

[INMY01TA]

DD= daily driver. I doubt you'll see 550rwhp. You'd have to use every trick in the book: 1 7/8 headers, Victor intake, electric waterpump, etc.

[35th-ANV-SS]

DD= daily driver. I doubt you'll see 550rwhp. You'd have to use every trick in the book: 1 7/8 headers, Victor intake, electric waterpump, etc.

And he still wouldn't get that much power.

[Pontiaco]

what you mean 35 anyv?

[RedSuperSport]

he means with just heads cam and intake it will be near impossible to get 550hp

[35th-ANV-SS]

If you want to get that level of power out of an LS1 you need to go the forced induction route or turbo route. You're not going to get 550rwhp staying naturally aspirated. With a MS4, heads, and intake I would guess high 400's.

[Pontiaco]

really? check this out, are they liying?
LS1 Engine Cam Test - Dyno Test Results - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine

[redbird555]

Ya a cam only ls1 is not going to make 550hp either at the flywheel or at the wheels. A couple stock bottom ls1's will hit 500whp with great heads, great cam and all bolt ons but its not the norm. With a t56 and ms4 cam id say 415-420 would be about the max true whp you would get with bolt ons. With an auto you would be around 400 at the wheels or around 500 crank. Get a set of decent heads and fast intake then easily add 40-50 hp to my figures above.

Also idk whose mechanic told them they'd need to change heads if they went with a bigger cam than the ms4 but I would get a new mechanic. The heads have nothing to do with ptv clearance unless for some reason the heads have a different deck height from stock. If you wanted to go bigger than the ms4 you would need to "flycut" the pistons which means cutting small reliefs into the top of the pistons to clear the valves.

BTW dont get caught up in the hype that since the ms4 is one the biggest cams you can run means its the best. There are a lot of factors that go into cam selection, so while the ms4 works well for weekend warriors who like their cars screaming high rpms down the track it probably wont be as well suited for everyday street driving. You can make almost as much peak power up top and gain much more under the curve to make it drive more street friendly around town with a smaller cam suited to YOUR engine setup than just slapping a big ass cam in there and hoping for the best.

[Pontiaco]

I have building engines for ever and I'm aware of all those things, I just like the nasty idle of the ms4 and if you read my first post I'm getting the best heads I can and intake, my first uestion was if the ms4 can hit the 550 hp mark?

[35th-ANV-SS]

No it cannot

[Pontiaco]

did you read the article on gm high tech performance? the have one making 541hp with a smaller cam

[35th-ANV-SS]

I would suggest you look at the section of this site that shows what people's mods are and shows the HP numbers.

[redbird555]

I did read your first post and I'll still stand by my claim that with mildly ported heads and an intake you will be around 440 ish at the tires which is a shy of 550 crank. You also never say if you want 550 at the crank or at the wheels? You also didnt say what kind of heads and intake you'll be using patriot heads are $1k 243 gm castings a little cheaper afr or trickflows are 2k all these heads will make much different power than eachother. To get 550 at the crank you would need a set of GOOD heads like afr, cnc ported or some damn good hand ported 243's all of which will cost a good chunk of change. If you like the thump of a big cam just get a smaller cam with more overlap at idle and a tighter lsa. The ms4 is made for high rpms and is not really suitable for a daily driven street car. I'd go mid-low230's duration with a 112 lsa.. it'll thump trust me. If you want 550 at the wheels your gonna need forced induction

BTW... when they did that cam dyno the engine had no accessories on it and used no exhaust system only open headers, all that takes a toll on how much power the motor would dyno.

[Pontiaco]

I'm getting the AFR's flowing 325, fast intake etc.. I'm sorry but I mean 550 + at the crank, at least for now!!!!