Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 42

Horsepower, the whole story.

This is a discussion on Horsepower, the whole story. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; And "work done over time" is energy! And torque is doing the work. Work is the dot product of Force ...

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    And "work done over time" is energy!
    And torque is doing the work. Work is the dot product of Force and distance. Like, pushing something 1000 lbs 3 feet is 3000 ft-lbs of work. In rotational mechanics, 400 ft-lbs is 400 lbs applied to a 1 ft moment arm (or 200 to a 2', or 100 to a 4') all do the same work.

    But I digress, if you want to get some "work done over time" it is a lot easier to start with work....torque!

  2. #22
    Junior Member slp1122's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    oc/las vegas
    Posts
    79

    pewter
    2000 camaro ss

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    And "work done over time" is energy!
    And torque is doing the work. Work is the dot product of Force and distance. Like, pushing something 1000 lbs 3 feet is 3000 ft-lbs of work. In rotational mechanics, 400 ft-lbs is 400 lbs applied to a 1 ft moment arm (or 200 to a 2', or 100 to a 4') all do the same work.

    But I digress, if you want to get some "work done over time" it is a lot easier to start with work....torque!
    not sure what you're trying to say, but horsepower IS work/time (work done over time).

    energy is the capacity for work, it has NOTHING to do with time.

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    Quote Originally Posted by slp1122 View Post
    not sure what you're trying to say, but horsepower IS work/time (work done over time).

    energy is the capacity for work, it has NOTHING to do with time.
    Sorry, I deleted some TMI out of my post...deleted wrong. (I deleted the integration statement....Energy as the time integral of power. I was going to say that you could take 2 different power curves from a dyno...Integrate and get a better answer to which engine has the most power. Given the equation doesn't jump off the paper...better to feed into a data logger and pull into MatLab, Excel or something at run time. So you don't have to manually find/construct the function (likely piecewise) to work the integral.)

    E/t=W/t = P. Yes, energy is the capacity to do work. (Work-Energy Equation)

  4. #24
    Junior Member slp1122's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    oc/las vegas
    Posts
    79

    pewter
    2000 camaro ss

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    Sorry, I deleted some TMI out of my post...deleted wrong. (I deleted the integration statement....Energy as the time integral of power. I was going to say that you could take 2 different power curves from a dyno...Integrate and get a better answer to which engine has the most power. Given the equation doesn't jump off the paper...better to feed into a data logger and pull into MatLab, Excel or something at run time. So you don't have to manually find/construct the function (likely piecewise) to work the integral.)

    E/t=W/t = P. Yes, energy is the capacity to do work. (Work-Energy Equation)
    ah gotcha! makes sense now

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    I've been around a few forums, read various articles, and even talked to several Mechanical Engineers...

    But I never hear anyone, ANYONE, talking about the curves! Am I just missing it being spoken on.
    Given that first statement, I have no idea how you can claim the second. Unless you're on a forum that caters to BMW or 350Z kiddies, power under the curve is discussed alot. Perhaps you should do more reading. And IMO gearing and overall driveline setup is more important than power under the curve, as you can gear to your powerband. That reason is why a properly geared and stalled automatic car can outrun it's manual transmission counterpart, even when underpowered, peak or under the curve

    It's all about utilizing your power to the fullest extent. Many people build lots of power they cannot use, it's all being wasted with the rest of the inefficient vehicle setup.

    Finally, if we are going to talk power under the curve, where do we begin the average? Power at full throttle in the low RPM range is meaningless.
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 01-14-2009 at 09:27 AM.

  6. #26
    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    doylestown, Pa
    Posts
    6,818

    SILVER
    2004 CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by blue02Z View Post
    because an engine is measured at its peak hp, what it is capable of putting down. that is why we have the graph to see how well the power curve is. that is why we got peeps on here like Wesman(no offense Wesman:chair: ) who stronly dislike a turbo 4 because your "arhp" are dead usually untill they boost up.

    i prolly didnt answer your question but i tried
    I am w/ WESMAN on this one!

  7. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    I was talking about the general stuff. (I have been to more Stang and Nissan boards to view their discussions. Because it is entertaining as Hell.) And many talk about the drive line and getting the power to the ground. (As to why they got plowed.)

    I've read a few ARTICLES on hi-po engines (maybe not reading the right ones) I note they talk about power here and there in the rpm band, and I have heard that here and other places.

    But I never see anything on a quantitative measure for the whole. Where to measure I mentioned earlier. Where would be best to measure is in a 1/4 haul.

    I don't know why I haven't seen a simple program that measures speed, time, and uses entered car weight to show an applied performance curve. (Tapping the wheel sensor readings to show wheel spins. And it would be nice if you could enter your drive component specs. Then you could show HP and torque from flywheel to rear wheel.)

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    I don't know why I haven't seen a simple program that measures speed, time, and uses entered car weight to show an applied performance curve. (Tapping the wheel sensor readings to show wheel spins. And it would be nice if you could enter your drive component specs. Then you could show HP and torque from flywheel to rear wheel.)
    Why on Earth would anyone need something like that? It sounds like you're trying to benchmark a vehicle's performance, and there is already something that measures that. It's not a program, it's called a racetrack.

  9. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    I've never had one in my back yard! You must have one, that happens to be free! Nice!

  10. #30
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,033

    SGM
    1998 Trans Am WS6

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    I am w/ WESMAN on this one!
    Me too

    Its like I always say - if you have two engines can both make identical peak power numbers, why would you want the smaller one with the crappy powerband and less torque?? Makes no sense, but ricers will try and justify their cause until the end of time.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    I've never had one in my back yard! You must have one, that happens to be free! Nice!
    Because this program you speak of would be free too, right? Don't have a local track? Buy a G-Tech, they're fairly accurate and can do everything you ask.

  12. #32
    JUISSED Midnight02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Age
    37
    Posts
    663

    Navy Blue Metallic
    2002 Camaro SS

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    Exactly! Perception dominates reality.
    That pretty much sums up the whole "peak horsepower" vs "real power" discussion.

    I think a measure that incorporated the average hp throughout the usable rpm range and then divided that figure into the car's weight would give us a more realistic indication of performance. That being said, even that figure wouldn't be able to take into account aerodynamics, suspension, gearing and a car's ability to put the power to the ground.

  13. #33
    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    doylestown, Pa
    Posts
    6,818

    SILVER
    2004 CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    Sorry, I deleted some TMI out of my post...deleted wrong. (I deleted the integration statement....Energy as the time integral of power. I was going to say that you could take 2 different power curves from a dyno...Integrate and get a better answer to which engine has the most power. Given the equation doesn't jump off the paper...better to feed into a data logger and pull into MatLab, Excel or something at run time. So you don't have to manually find/construct the function (likely piecewise) to work the integral.)

    E/t=W/t = P. Yes, energy is the capacity to do work. (Work-Energy Equation)
    Shit, I'm lost! Anyway, I got 580 horsepower and no traction! What you got?
    j/k

  14. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    Shit, I'm lost! Anyway, I got 580 horsepower and no traction! What you got?
    j/k
    That is all Math and Physics crap that you generally don't need to know to get it did!

    I am pushing 111 ponies with fat 22's and a big ole muffler!

  15. #35
    JUISSED Midnight02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Age
    37
    Posts
    663

    Navy Blue Metallic
    2002 Camaro SS

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    That is all Math and Physics crap that you generally don't need to know to get it did!

    I am pushing 111 ponies with fat 22's and a big ole muffler!
    That post is hilarious! Can you guys fine tune the calculation to include the performance increase I would get from a couple stickers and a really big wing on the back? I'm thinking I should already be good for an extra 20 rwhp, however I'll probably add a "NOS" sticker down the road to pick up a few extra hp.

  16. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    I think a wing increases HP by like 30 to 40. 40 if it is primed and not painted! Stickers...it depends on how cool the lettering is and if they are oval and metallic, and look all racy! NOS is an upper end sticker you should really put a Koni racing shock sticker to make sure you get those increases to the ground.

    Now carbon fiber laminates, they add HP and reduce the cars weight! Add some neon lights under the car and you have dangerous levels of The Fast and The Furious levels of speed!

  17. #37
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    mercersburg pa
    Posts
    6,443

    hugger orange
    2004

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    I think a wing increases HP by like 30 to 40. 40 if it is primed and not painted! Stickers...it depends on how cool the lettering is and if they are oval and metallic, and look all racy! NOS is an upper end sticker you should really put a Koni racing shock sticker to make sure you get those increases to the ground.

    Now carbon fiber laminates, they add HP and reduce the cars weight! Add some neon lights under the car and you have dangerous levels of The Fast and The Furious levels of speed!
    how about this wing


    or if thats not enough, we can just add afterburners!

  18. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS


  19. #39
    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    mercersburg pa
    Posts
    6,443

    hugger orange
    2004

    Quote Originally Posted by BowTied View Post
    you gotta love the 2x4 cross braces on the first one

  20. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    46
    Posts
    289

    Silver & Black
    99 Camaro SS

    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    you gotta love the 2x4 cross braces on the first one
    Absolutely smoooooov! He must be in the Framers Union!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Horsepower Combos - Horsepower Rules
    By Ed Blown Vert in forum Camaro / SS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 09:20 AM
  2. how much horsepower
    By 94redmaro in forum LT1
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-13-2007, 07:58 PM
  3. Looking for horsepower
    By Ziing Red 28 in forum General Help
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-09-2006, 05:15 PM
  4. how much horsepower
    By 99blueZ in forum General Help
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-16-2006, 09:11 AM
  5. horsepower
    By everett in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-09-2006, 08:14 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •