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Highest legal N/A power for California?

This is a discussion on Highest legal N/A power for California? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Firebirdjones I feel for the hotrodders that have to comply,,,it's ruining the hobby for alot of people. ...

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I feel for the hotrodders that have to comply,,,it's ruining the hobby for alot of people. And for those that make big power and still pass emissions,,,my hats off to ya,,,it's not easy to do.
    Actually in most states OBD-II has been a godsend. Many states like here in Maryland have very different testing methods for OBD-I and OBD-II. The OBD-I tests are quite strict, requiring both visual and dyno testing - same requirements as CA. With OBD-II all they do is vacuum test the gas cap, check for warning lights on the dash, and then finally scan the PCM for DTCs and completed system monitors. Many people have pulled up in cars cammin so hard that raw gas spits out the tailpipe and pass because of a tune that deletes certain DTCs

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    Actually in most states OBD-II has been a godsend. Many states like here in Maryland have very different testing methods for OBD-I and OBD-II. The OBD-I tests are quite strict, requiring both visual and dyno testing - same requirements as CA. With OBD-II all they do is vacuum test the gas cap, check for warning lights on the dash, and then finally scan the PCM for DTCs and completed system monitors. Many people have pulled up in cars cammin so hard that raw gas spits out the tailpipe and pass because of a tune that deletes certain DTCs
    Thats nice, I wonder why they haven't used a sniffer on those yet???

    When it was here in Ohio,,,they used a sniffer on anything that required an e-check,,,,OBD II or not. Man were people throwing a fit. After about 2 years it was totally removed all together. Been gone for several years now,,,and I haven't heard any talk of it coming back. Although we moved away from the city to avoid it anyway.

    It seems all the states have various ways to do it,,,probably has to do with government funding and how much the state wants to spend on it and all that other bologna.

    With the direction things are going I wouldn't be surprised if it all becomes uniform accross the board within the next 20 years,,,,,by then these camaros will be antiques and exempt from any testing,,,,,

    In Arizona,,,only Maricopa county and Yuma counties have testing,,,which pretty much means Phoenix and it's suburbs,,,and down around Tuscon. So while house searching we went north and stayed out of Maricopa county,,,,found Prescott, loved the area and bought a house.

  3. #23
    Junior Member sspeedracer's Avatar
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    not sure what "e-check" is but in california smog inspection varies by county. Most, but not all counties, perform an entire sniffer and visual inspection. Otherwise its just OBD2 plug in and check for error codes.

    Removing or moving the catalytic convertor(s) on any car in the US is illegal under CFR as mandated by the EPA. However, emissions enforcement is left up to each state. Some enforce and some don't.

    Emission reduction and control is very important and its hilarious when car enthusiasts complain about not being allowed to shit in the air that other people breath. Ever since the early 70's its always been some idiots complaint about lower horsepower and performance. Yeah right.

    I'm not going to get into a flame war with any anti-environment, global warming's not real, petrol loving bone head. But Before someone flames away about big bad emission controls and limits, think about the current state of performance. What cars were available before emission controls that got 500 or even 600 FWHP and 20+mpg? None, not even close.

    Consider why the US is ranked behind countries like Argentina, United Arab Emirates, India, Philippines, Italy, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and China, in the development of alternative fuel infrastructure? Do you realize that Saudi Arabia is ahead of us in the use of alternative vehicles? At least we have Mexico and Iraq beat. Feels good knowing that the US is dependent on buying (or stealing) oil from countries that want to kill us.

  4. #24
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sspeedracer View Post
    not sure what "e-check" is but in california smog inspection varies by county. Most, but not all counties, perform an entire sniffer and visual inspection. Otherwise its just OBD2 plug in and check for error codes.

    Removing or moving the catalytic convertor(s) on any car in the US is illegal under CFR as mandated by the EPA. However, emissions enforcement is left up to each state. Some enforce and some don't.

    Emission reduction and control is very important and its hilarious when car enthusiasts complain about not being allowed to shit in the air that other people breath. Ever since the early 70's its always been some idiots complaint about lower horsepower and performance. Yeah right.

    I'm not going to get into a flame war with any anti-environment, global warming's not real, petrol loving bone head. But Before someone flames away about big bad emission controls and limits, think about the current state of performance. What cars were available before emission controls that got 500 or even 600 FWHP and 20+mpg? None, not even close.

    Consider why the US is ranked behind countries like Argentina, United Arab Emirates, India, Philippines, Italy, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and China, in the development of alternative fuel infrastructure? Do you realize that Saudi Arabia is ahead of us in the use of alternative vehicles? At least we have Mexico and Iraq beat. Feels good knowing that the US is dependent on buying (or stealing) oil from countries that want to kill us.
    LOL,,,your quote about the cars now having 600 HP and passing emissions compared to cars of 30 years ago has one big flaw,,,,,,,price differences.

    Who in the hell is going to afford a $100,000 vette with 600 HP,,,,everybody???? I don't think so. Not while 40 year old muscle cars are still somewhat afforable for the average hotrodder,,,cheaper to work on,,,,easier to diagnose,,,,hold more value,,,, and are all around a blast to drive.
    Playing with these new cars may be cleaner,,,,but there is a huge price difference,,,not everyone can afford to play with them.

    As far as global warming,,,,I suggest going to the library and doing some research,,,,alot of what you hear on TV is nothing but hype,,,and more hype in cali than anywhere. There are at least a dozen (that I can remember) natural ozone eating processes that happen 24-7,,,,that we can do nothing about. We as a whole are only a very small percentage of it. What the government is doing now is not going to stop the ozone from disappearing sorry to say. Meanwhile it's money out of your pockets. We are one of a few if any country that even has "e-checking" (which by the way is emissions checks)
    Those other countries you mentioned that have alternative fuels aren't doing it so much for the environment like they are trying to pound in our heads, they couldn't care less about the environment. Of course living in a conservative tree hugging state like California I wouldn't expect you to see it any other way.
    Half of my family was born and raised out there in Sacramento, still have family there. I'm all too familiar with it.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 01-22-2008 at 09:05 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sspeedracer View Post
    Ever since the early 70's its always been some idiots complaint about lower horsepower and performance. Yeah right.
    My 85 Z28 was really loaded down with performance surpressing emissions items. Removal of the computer controlled carb and distributor (replaced with identical non computer controlled units), removal of the catalytic converter, EGR, and complete AIR system gained over 1 second ET and 5 MPH in the quarter. The car STILL passed the dyno emission testing.

    And we're behind the other countries you list in alternative fuels due to the fact the WE created the market for petroleum based fuels nearly a century ago, and built our infrastructure around it. Those other countries you list came into the game late, and their entire economy isn't as heavily based upon it as we are.

    Finally in reality we are not nor should we be completely dependant upon foreign oil. We could be completely self-sustaining if we wanted to. However certain political agendas prohibit us from using our own resources We bought Alaska for the sole purpose of oil prospects - let us take advantage of it!

    Sorry dude, but you just cannot post propaganda like that and claim that you don't want to get into a flamefest

  6. #26
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    My 85 Z28 was really loaded down with performance surpressing emissions items. Removal of the computer controlled carb and distributor (replaced with identical non computer controlled units), removal of the catalytic converter, EGR, and complete AIR system gained over 1 second ET and 5 MPH in the quarter. The car STILL passed the dyno emission testing.

    And we're behind the other countries you list in alternative fuels due to the fact the WE created the market for petroleum based fuels nearly a century ago, and built our infrastructure around it. Those other countries you list came into the game late, and their entire economy isn't as heavily based upon it as we are.

    Finally in reality we are not nor should we be completely dependant upon foreign oil. We could be completely self-sustaining if we wanted to. However certain political agendas prohibit us from using our own resources We bought Alaska for the sole purpose of oil prospects - let us take advantage of it!

    Sorry dude, but you just cannot post propaganda like that and claim that you don't want to get into a flamefest

    I agree Marc,,,,all good points, alot of political crap behind all this isn't there???

    I desmogged a couple cars I had from the mid to late 80's and found similar results as you have.

    I also purchase a 70 formula 400 in California some years back,,(still have the car) and it too had to be smog tested before it "LEFT" the state of california another bullcrap money making scheme. What I found interesting is here is a pre smog era car, with a large motor, and the only thing even relating to emissions on the car was a charcoal canister,(california built cars only in 1970,,,,go figure) and this thing passed the sniffer test with flying colors. Even the tech came over and commented on how clean that old car was......just goes to show even the old cars can be clean, even by california's standards,,,,lol

  7. #27
    Junior Member sspeedracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Who in the hell is going to afford a $100,000 vette with 600 HP,,,,everybody???? I don't think so.
    Hahaha what vette was available in the 70's with 600HP? You're worse than comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing fantasy to fact. How much do you think a 600HP vette would have cost in the 70's if one existed? More than 100K? It would be out of our reach in either case. Silly example you used.

    Compare cars with similar HP rating from the 70's and factor in inflation. Cars today have better performance, better milleage, lower emissions for less money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    As far as global warming,,,,I suggest going to the library and doing some research,,,,alot of what you hear on TV is nothing but hype,,,and more hype in cali than anywhere.
    I don't waste my time watching TV, Instead I waste it trying pointing out your complete lack of knowledge. What research have you done? According to the sound of it none. There is not a SINGLE peer reviewed technical paper arguing against global warming. Name one thats peer reviewed. Sure you can use "The Google" and find arguments for and against. But most is bull shit until scientists actual review and prove it out.

    On the other hand the United Nations report (which included scientists from several major petrol companies) concluded that global warming was in fact very real and human activities were causing it. This is considered the most conservative report available. Not some liberal, tree-hugging, sky is falling, conspiracy theory as you would like to believe. Unless of course you think UN scientists are full of shit also. But then again, you probably know more than them 'cause you go to the library. Bahahaha.

    The ONLY argument left within the science community is how long we have to correct the course before there is no going back. The years vary between 2012 and 2050.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Those other countries you mentioned that have alternative fuels aren't doing it so much for the environment like they are trying to pound in our heads, they couldn't care less about the environment.
    Hahaha funny paranoid stuff you belch out.
    Who is trying to pound what in your head? maybe its time start wearing your tinfoil cap again. All other countries (with the exception of Greenland and Iceland) are doing it to reduce their reliance of fossil fuel and the economic risk of depending on foreign energy. The cleaner air is a nice side effect of saving money. Nice job trying to argument against that.

    Leave the heavy lifting to those who have actually know what were talking about. Stop giving gear heads a bad name by perpetuating your ignorance.

  8. #28
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Thats exactly what I was expecting from you..

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sspeedracer View Post
    I don't waste my time watching TV, Instead I waste it trying pointing out your complete lack of knowledge. What research have you done? According to the sound of it none. There is not a SINGLE peer reviewed technical paper arguing against global warming. Name one thats peer reviewed. Sure you can use "The Google" and find arguments for and against. But most is bull shit until scientists actual review and prove it out.
    If you would get your information from a more credible source you might find evidence to the contrary. Stop reading CA newspapers, watching ABC/NBC, or visiting any of those extreme liberal sites that I'm sure you visit. Those "sources" are extremely politically motivated, and more often than not reflect far left views. Even the BBC has tackled and debunked the Global Warming issue. Given their track record, that speaks a lot. Has any CA news source verified the existance of Manbearpig yet?

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    Senior Member TransAm11973's Avatar
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    heres a good idea..........move

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    There's no way I'd believe that without a dyno sheet, and then I would still be skeptical. As a matter of fact, it's at LEAST 20rwhp higher than anything I have ever seen anywhere with those mods; and that's after tuning.
    He has a dyno sheet, and i was there when he dynoed, and then i raced him after words. Hes got the power it says.

  12. #32
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    post it. Never even heard of a stock engine, stock cam, stock heads, and stock intake with OR without tuning (as you say he is) making 370rwhp. I say post the sheet. I will also say that he almost certainly has the strongest LS1 in the WHOLE WORLD. Post the sheet so somebody knows you aren't just blowing smoke.

  13. #33
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    Global warming is real weather you chose to except it or not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    post it. Never even heard of a stock engine, stock cam, stock heads, and stock intake with OR without tuning (as you say he is) making 370rwhp. I say post the sheet. I will also say that he almost certainly has the strongest LS1 in the WHOLE WORLD. Post the sheet so somebody knows you aren't just blowing smoke.

    I made 350TQ and about 340ish HP with just: SLP CAI,SLP Mass, and SLP stock exhust from the factory.. on a dyna pack 4000.. At synergy motorsports in newark Cali... I think with LT And the other mod's he has listed I'd prob. be somewhere in that range.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARP211 View Post
    Global warming is real weather you chose to except it or not...
    Hows come all you guys live in California,,,,I see a connection here

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by WARP211 View Post
    Global warming is real weather you chose to except it or not...
    You're a moron. Not only because you're buying into the Global Warming issue, but because you don't know the difference between weather and whether, and except and accept. Once you can get your communications skills above a 3rd grade level, maybe someone might listen. California sheeple...

  17. #37
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    You're a moron. Not only because you're buying into the Global Warming issue, but because you don't know the difference between weather and whether, and except and accept. Once you can get your communications skills above a 3rd grade level, maybe someone might listen. California sheeple...
    I noticed that too,,,,but I was biting my lip

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    I'm shooting for 500HP at the crank.. And i will make it pass smog for all you non-believers out their.. Believe it or not..? And they do have cars modded out here that pass the sniffer.. As far as long tubs go they are illegal to have yes and the cats you cannot relocate.. but with the car drop and having aftermarket cats like radom technology.. its possible... is it legal? no.. But when you smog your own cars anything is possible
    Last edited by WARP211; 02-01-2008 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    You're a moron. Not only because you're buying into the Global Warming issue, but because you don't know the difference between weather and whether, and except and accept. Once you can get your communications skills above a 3rd grade level, maybe someone might listen. California sheeple...
    dude i'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone.. Thats just my IMO..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Hows come all you guys live in California,,,,I see a connection here
    Cuz the weather is better than anywhere else in the united states.. oops besides hawaii..

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