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help me out guys am i making the right choices?

This is a discussion on help me out guys am i making the right choices? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; i am gonna do a heads and cam swap and it`s a DD and wanted to know if thease are ...

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    Junior Member Adam_WS6_'s Avatar
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    help me out guys am i making the right choices?

    i am gonna do a heads and cam swap and it`s a DD and wanted to know if thease are good choices? it`s a com cam 228 228 .588 .588 113 and the heads are Patriot CNC Stage 2 Ported Heads 59 cc umm all the valvtrain springs push rods rockers. long tubes kooks ,, full tune ls7 clutch all the nessery hard wear fly whell and all that .... lower controll arms relo brakets. tower brace, all in stalled 6200.. from Speedinc

    they said any were from 420 to 440 rwhp with that cam?


    is that a good dd cam and long trips,,,,


    i drive the piss outta this car all most every day. it`s a purtty much stock m6 ws6 01...

    ohh and the car gots 29k miles..

    oh i for got to put a pro 5.0 too with that price $6200 am i getting ripid off are is that a fair price
    ?

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_WS6_ View Post
    i am gonna do a heads and cam swap and it`s a DD and wanted to know if thease are good choices? it`s a com cam 228 228 .588 .588 113 and the heads are Patriot CNC Stage 2 Ported Heads 59 cc umm all the valvtrain springs push rods rockers. long tubes kooks ,, full tune ls7 clutch all the nessery hard wear fly whell and all that .... lower controll arms relo brakets. tower brace, all in stalled 6200.. from Speedinc

    they said any were from 420 to 440 rwhp with that cam?


    is that a good dd cam and long trips,,,,


    i drive the piss outta this car all most every day. it`s a purtty much stock m6 ws6 01...

    ohh and the car gots 29k miles..

    oh i for got to put a pro 5.0 too with that price $6200 am i getting ripid off are is that a fair price
    ?
    sounds about right...


    about $1,300.00 for the heads...
    about $800.00 for clutch and fly wheel
    about $800.00 for cam and springs...
    maybe $100.00 for the pushrods...
    another $500.00 for the rockers...
    probably about $300.00 for the tune...

    so close to $4,000 in parts...

    that is a good amout of work to install all that... i'd say it's a pretty fair price...

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_WS6_ View Post
    i am gonna do a heads and cam swap and it`s a DD and wanted to know if thease are good choices? it`s a com cam 228 228 .588 .588 113 and the heads are Patriot CNC Stage 2 Ported Heads 59 cc umm all the valvtrain springs push rods rockers. long tubes kooks ,, full tune ls7 clutch all the nessery hard wear fly whell and all that .... lower controll arms relo brakets. tower brace, all in stalled 6200.. from Speedinc

    they said any were from 420 to 440 rwhp with that cam?

    so far you are on the right track for a strong street setup that is still DD friendly...

    my suggestions:
    1) get the cam on a 112 LSA not 113.
    2) also, get an Ls6 Oil Pump and Ls2 timing chain for when you do the cam swap.
    3) sell whatever intake you have and get either a FAST90 or FAST92, and have it ported. i gained 35rwhp/10rwtq over the Ls6 i swapped on my car
    4) pass on the rockers...
    5) other headers will be cheaper and offer very close to the power gains that kooks would. i personally cant justify spending $$$ for a name. im running the Ebay stainless XS headers i got for $340 bucks...
    6) price seems high for all that + install (some you can do yourself)...

    as for making 420-440rwhp, if you get a FAST yes you will be in that range. im running the Patriot Stage II Ls6 'style' heads (59cc), ported FAST 90, a comp 224 .581 112lsa cam, Long Tubes and True Duals and im putting down 443/402...(car is a 6spd)...

    best of luck with your build...
    2000 SS - The Wicked Witch: °°Cammed 'n Slammed°° 458rwhp/410rwtq
    Quote Originally Posted by Bowtie_girl30
    I was hoping to just hump her up the exhaust cause she is so damn sexy....
    "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    so far you are on the right track for a strong street setup that is still DD friendly...

    my suggestions:
    1) get the cam on a 112 LSA not 113.
    2) also, get an Ls6 Oil Pump and Ls2 timing chain for when you do the cam swap.
    3) sell whatever intake you have and get either a FAST90 or FAST92, and have it ported. i gained 35rwhp/10rwtq over the Ls6 i swapped on my car
    4) pass on the rockers...
    5) other headers will be cheaper and offer very close to the power gains that kooks would. i personally cant justify spending $$$ for a name. im running the Ebay stainless XS headers i got for $340 bucks...
    6) price seems high for all that + install (some you can do yourself)...

    as for making 420-440rwhp, if you get a FAST yes you will be in that range. im running the Patriot Stage II Ls6 'style' heads (59cc), ported FAST 90, a comp 224 .581 112lsa cam, Long Tubes and True Duals and im putting down 443/402...(car is a 6spd)...

    best of luck with your build...
    i agree with B... with the exception of #4 ONLY if you are getting roller rockers... if you are getting roller rockers then hell yeah they are worth it...

    also... i'm wondering what suspension mods you have done...

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    Member NorthwoodDavid's Avatar
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    And say good-bye to that 10boltlol

    Other than that i will sound awesome with a 112lsa IMO

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    I'd say that price is fair. My suggestion would be to use PRC heads instead but that's topic for another debate.

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    Junior Member Adam_WS6_'s Avatar
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    What Is The LSA Top End?? Is There That Big Of A Change From 112 Lsa 113.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_WS6_ View Post
    What Is The LSA Top End?? Is There That Big Of A Change From 112 Lsa 113.?
    i suggest reading this wonderful material...
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327734

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Please dont buy the ebay headers though. I bought a set and RMA'd them after I saw how shotty they were. I hadn't even seen the craftsmanship of a set of LTs like Kooks or ARHs yet and I knew they were crap. RMA'd, got my cash and got a set of used Kooks.

    If you want cheap headers, get a set of ceramic coated Pacesetters.

    Just my $.02

    -Eagle

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    Junior Member Adam_WS6_'s Avatar
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    great info SSwt00SS thanks......


    well am i missing anything eles? boyz?

    from what i under stan i think i might have one bad ass whip.. with a weak links..

    weak link is the 10 bolt .. with that set up will it hit 420WRHP? with a great tune?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    Please dont buy the ebay headers though. I bought a set and RMA'd them after I saw how shotty they were. I hadn't even seen the craftsmanship of a set of LTs like Kooks or ARHs yet and I knew they were crap. RMA'd, got my cash and got a set of used Kooks.

    If you want cheap headers, get a set of ceramic coated Pacesetters.

    Just my $.02

    -Eagle
    i can't speak for the "newest" batch of ebay headers, but i got my XS stainless steel LT's off ebay back in 2006, and i have yet to encounter a single issue with them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_WS6_ View Post
    great info SSwt00SS thanks......


    well am i missing anything eles? boyz?

    from what i under stan i think i might have one bad ass whip.. with a weak links..

    weak link is the 10 bolt .. with that set up will it hit 420WRHP? with a great tune?
    you could port and polish the TB for the Ls6 intake that you have, but coming from personal experience you would easily reach 420rwhp by going w/a FAST 90. since the FAST92 has come out FAST90's are dropping in price. i dont see the reason to waste anymore money to help the Ls6 intake 'breathe', IMO...

    also verify what length pushrods you need. chances are you will need to go w/Comp Poly 7.4" pushrods. do not reuse the stockers...

    yes, your tune will have a lot to do with how well the driving manners of the car on the street and strip, respectively...

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    i can't speak for the "newest" batch of ebay headers, but i got my XS stainless steel LT's off ebay back in 2006, and i have yet to encounter a single issue with them...
    I got mine this year, and they can't hold a candle to the Kook's quality, craftsmanship, welds, primary size... nuttin.

    If you saw the ebay stuff next to a set of Kooks, you'd know what I'm talking about.

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    I got mine this year, and they can't hold a candle to the Kook's quality, craftsmanship, welds, primary size... nuttin.

    If you saw the ebay stuff next to a set of Kooks, you'd know what I'm talking about.

    -Eagle
    I've seen both many times. My polished XS headers look better in my opinion. Only $299 too.

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    I don't think there is much debating that he'll make better power with a ported FAST 9X and matched TB combo, with the 85MM LS6 MAF. The fact of the matter is though that he's getting all that - intake for 6200. Lets say he can get the intake for 700, the TB for 350, the MAF for 150, getting the intake porting is another 250. So he's now shelling out another ~1500 bucks (I think I put all those prices a bit low too).

    Install stays the same... all that stuff has to come off, so they gotta bolt something else in there. However, all of THAT stuff is stuff that most people could do in their driveway. A cam install is not. So he'd probably be better off to take that 1500, and get a heads and cam package from someone (Summing will sell you a package with trickflow heads, rockers, pushrods and cam for 3000), and move from the uber kooks to a pair of headers a little cheaper and he's probably better off, and for about the same money. Maybe slightly more for the install job to swap the heads, but he can then do the intake stuff himself later, and then he'll have a good 475ish at the wheels.

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    Personally, if he's looking for that kinda of power, I wouldn't skimp on the parts. A couple hundred extra isn't bad for the best of the best. You'll probably regret buying cheaper parts later on too...I know I would. If he doesn't wanna or can't spend the money for the Kooks or ARH, I'd say get the OBX. There only 500 and are hella nice and fit grade from my experiences (non f-body though).
    Also, SSwt00SS, I don't see why you say don't get rockers. The stockers are only roller fulcrum and a set of roller tip, roller fulcrum will definitely help out a little.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Ok, again. The OBX e-bay headers are terrible for the LS1.

    CLICK HERE to see what the set of OBX headers look like that I RMA'd. Primaries are tiny (1.5"), collectors are of terrible construction (pipes & welds were not cleaned up after assembly booger welds, mig wire, sawzall ends on the primaries...), Y-pipe merge was equally terrible, etc etc etc....

    PLEASE dont buy OBX headers for a motor like this, make sure you're getting a quality set of headers.

    -Eagle
    Last edited by Eagle; 04-16-2008 at 08:53 PM.

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    Personally, if he's looking for that kinda of power, I wouldn't skimp on the parts. A couple hundred extra isn't bad for the best of the best. You'll probably regret buying cheaper parts later on too...I know I would. If he doesn't wanna or can't spend the money for the Kooks or ARH, I'd say get the OBX. There only 500 and are hella nice and fit grade from my experiences (non f-body though).
    Also, SSwt00SS, I don't see why you say don't get rockers. The stockers are only roller fulcrum and a set of roller tip, roller fulcrum will definitely help out a little.
    i take it from the viewpoint that the $$$ spent is not worth the little hp he might pick up. $500 for maybe 7rwhp at most is money that could be used towards getting a FAST90 or 92 and seeing more gains for money spent. it was my personal opinion, that's all...

    however by all means if i am incorrect, please inform me. i dont mind being corrected...

    also, i would skip on the MAF if i were him. its been proven time over that the stock MAF will support all the power he will make after doing a H/C swap.

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    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    Also, SSwt00SS, I don't see why you say don't get rockers. The stockers are only roller fulcrum and a set of roller tip, roller fulcrum will definitely help out a little.
    roller rockers are worth the money... forget getting a different ratio as well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    Also, SSwt00SS, I don't see why you say don't get rockers. The stockers are only roller fulcrum and a set of roller tip, roller fulcrum will definitely help out a little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    roller rockers are worth the money... forget getting a different ratio as well...
    but you have to realize that, most current aftermarket cams have lobes that are too aggressive to run a higher lift rocker.

    typically, cams that allow the use of the rockers tend to have low lift to begin with. i dont see it worth spending the $$$ for rockers just to increase lift...

    he should just buy a cam with the lift already built in, to save money...

    plus, most aftermarket LS1 camshafts have pretty aggressive lobe profiles and ramp rates which might make the idea/use of going to rockers not an option...

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