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Heads/cam

This is a discussion on Heads/cam within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I need to revive this with a head question...from my understanding I want to keep the car as close to ...

  1. #21
    Member 1998 T/A's Avatar
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    I need to revive this with a head question...from my understanding I want to keep the car as close to stock compression as I can and from my understanding a 65cc chamber size should be ok. I'm having trouble comprehending the intake sizes I need and from what I understand exhaust size is not as crucial as intake. I may be wrong. The setup is as follows...stock bottom end, ls6 intake bought, all the necessary add one timing chain oil pump etc...the cam pack from Texas speed will include pushrods and springs probably do ls6 rocker arms and the cam is most likely gonna be 224/228 maybe a little bigger. Let me know what you guys think.

  2. #22
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1998 T/A View Post
    I need to revive this with a head question...from my understanding I want to keep the car as close to stock compression as I can and from my understanding a 65cc chamber size should be ok. I'm having trouble comprehending the intake sizes I need and from what I understand exhaust size is not as crucial as intake. I may be wrong. The setup is as follows...stock bottom end, ls6 intake bought, all the necessary add one timing chain oil pump etc...the cam pack from Texas speed will include pushrods and springs probably do ls6 rocker arms and the cam is most likely gonna be 224/228 maybe a little bigger. Let me know what you guys think.
    Ls6 rocker arms are exactly the same as ls1 rockers. Only ls3 and ls7 rockers are different. You need both an intake and exhaust that breathes well otherwise with the mods you are doing will not reap the most it could. The ls6 intake for your application is good just make sure you have an aftermarket lid as well. The only way to keep stock compression is to keep stock heads or get aftermarket ones in the same chamber size. The 243/799 heads bump the compression a bit but not enough to become an issue with pump gas. Increasing compression on a naturally aspirated gives you about an increase of 4-5% hp per point fyi and your motor can handle pretty easily 11.0 to 11.5:1 on pump gas so I wouldn't be too worried with the chamber size on the heads unless you went to 58 cc or something similar. Staying in the 64 cc range for heads would give you a nice bump in power though.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 11-18-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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  3. #23
    Member 1998 T/A's Avatar
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    Ok...on the chamber size does that set your Rev limiter capabilities and what would be a good chamber size to start with? Car is going to be street strip maybe 4-5 trips to the strip if that.
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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1998 T/A View Post
    Ok...on the chamber size does that set your Rev limiter capabilities and what would be a good chamber size to start with? Car is going to be street strip maybe 4-5 trips to the strip if that.
    For you 64 or 65 cc would be a good starting point the compression will help low down acceleration and overall power. Basically for your application if you slapped on some 243 heads that would get you there. You could go with thinner gaskets too if you wanted more compression. This also gives you the option of having your milled heads for even smaller chambers if you wanted later. You'd have around 10.6 -10.7:1 compression with just switching to the 243s.

  5. #25
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    I just talked to a guy over at Texas-speed and he kinda steered me into 5.3 heads 220cc intake and probably 62cc chambers. With a 228r cam but he said the MS3 would be a good cam and personally he had one said it was good on the highway and strip

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1998 T/A View Post
    I just talked to a guy over at Texas-speed and he kinda steered me into 5.3 heads 220cc intake and probably 62cc chambers. With a 228r cam but he said the MS3 would be a good cam and personally he had one said it was good on the highway and strip
    It comes down to what you are wanting out of the car and how much you want to spend. If you want to the most with what you have I would get ported 243s and a custom cam to match. The ms3 is old news there are plenty of way better cams out there that aren't as hard on the valvetrain.

  7. #27
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    I definitely get what you are saying with the MS3 but when it comes down to the heads most power will be derived up top with the 243 and more down low with the 5.3 heads am I wrong on that? Also price is a factor...they can put together a package for me with heads and cam for around 2400 with the 5.3 heads and 1700 for the 243 if I supply my own 243 heads and from what I'm seeing on ebay for 243's it's maybe 150 to 200 more to go with the head and cam package from TS...has anybody had good times with the tourqer v3??

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    What's your budget?

  9. #29
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    No more than 3k for parts...the kit with the heads from TSP comes with heads assembled push rods, cam and you can tach on oil pump and timing chain for extra. I've settled on the 233/239 cam ls6 oil pump ported of course, and probably slp double roller chain. This come out to 2600 (rounded) just can't decide on the heads.

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    So with the 3k your buying the whole top end? Or you just need a heads and cam setup?

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    Don't forget that head gasket compressed thickness also affects volume and final compression. I am not sure what all is out there for LS1's, but it is a factor and can be used to tweak things if you are pushing the envelope. Generally, you will see variances with different gasket brands and sometimes thickness options from the same manufacturer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Don't forget that head gasket compressed thickness also affects volume and final compression. I am not sure what all is out there for LS1's, but it is a factor and can be used to tweak things if you are pushing the envelope. Generally, you will see variances with different gasket brands and sometimes thickness options from the same manufacturer.
    What about Trick Flows complete heads/cam package? I know they arent a sponsor, but they seem to be a viable option.They seem to have everthing he needs and are under 3k. The Gen X's advertise between 485-515 hp. (Crankwise). Even taking into account the losses going to the wheels, I would figure that would easily give him what he is looking for.

  13. #33
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    If it's just a heads and cam for 3k. Trickflow 220s/ cam kit from a vendor of his choice. Especially with the sales going on right now there probably be some cash left over. I had a trickflow 220/btr cam/ fast 102 put 486 through a 3600 stalled 4l60 and went 10.2s at low 13x (on a 150 plate shot). That's alil more than 3k though.

    My new setup is CHEAP and just going to throw a 300 shot on it. SNS stage 2 cam kit, 218cc AI 862 heads, and fast 78/78 intake direct port for now once I find a trade I'm going to Vic Jr 4150 tb with stinger plate. Have about 3k in the whole motor minus the direct port lol. Oh it's got a forged 347 bottom end as well
    Last edited by scott5; 11-22-2014 at 09:26 AM.

  14. #34
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    Ya I looked at the trickflow kits as well...definitely not putting nitrous in it..not yet at least lol.

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    The combo at the beginning of my post will suite your needs and in your budget.

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    Your car is a 98 that you said is completely stock. I'm no expert on these cars, but all these horsepower numbers being thrown around make me worry about the clutch, transmission and rear end. Of course, there is also the suspension and chassis to consider. Can the rest of your car handle the extra 100 or more horsepower? Anyone have any thoughts on this? At what point should OP be looking at a clutch/rear end and suspension?

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    Make sure you check everything lift wise when you are putting it together with that much duration and lift PTV is an issue. My MS3 was ordered on a 12+2, and had PTV issues even with flycutting. Had to retard the cam 6 degrees to keep it from hitting. Ended up buying a different one on a 112.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    Your car is a 98 that you said is completely stock. I'm no expert on these cars, but all these horsepower numbers being thrown around make me worry about the clutch, transmission and rear end. Of course, there is also the suspension and chassis to consider. Can the rest of your car handle the extra 100 or more horsepower? Anyone have any thoughts on this? At what point should OP be looking at a clutch/rear end and suspension?
    Car is an 00 and it will be getting a spec stage 3 clutch the rest of the trans will hold up and the rear just got 3.73 from previous owner so I may just do 4.10's down the road. It will see little track time maybe 5 trips to the strip so I'm not too concerned with the rear. I'm also doing front and rear control arms lowering springs sway bars shocks of course and that's it for now suspension wise.

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    5 trips to the track is a fair amount for what is considered mainly a dedicated street car. Since you have a 3rd pedal I'd certainly be concerned with the rearend. I've scattered those things on regular street tires. Had one that let go and took the transmission with it as it shoved the driveshaft forward, damn near wrecked the car in the process.

    If funds don't allow it right now, then I'd definately keep the 3.73's in there. If you install 4.10's in a little 7.5, your gear contact goes down the toilet and significantly weakens that rearend. With 4.10's you only have 1 1/2 teeth in contact at any given time with that small 7.5" ring gear diameter. With 3.73's you at least have 2 teeth contacting at any given time.
    Bottom line is that steeper gears don't mix well in rearends that have tiny ring gear diameters, because the pinion shrinks in diameter in the process.

    Personally I'd drive somewhat gingerly on it with that new motor combination until you can afford to shove a 12-bolt/9-inch in there, and I definately wouldn't be putting any sort of sticky tire on the car....at all until then.

    Keep in mind those T56's aren't bullet proof either. If you take it to the strip and really drive it like you mean it, they do snap output shafts from time to time, a weak link in the trans since GM stuck with the tiny 350 turbo sized output in these things. So high rpm clutch dumps with a car that hooks eventually brings that to light. Sincro's also leave alot to be desired in these trannys. They are nice cruiser transmissions with the overdrive, and definately increase the fun factor on the street, but serious track use starts to show weaknesses, they definately need some internal rework to be reliable in that scenario.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 11-25-2014 at 04:42 AM.

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