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Good Package?

This is a discussion on Good Package? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Does anyone think this is a good package? I'm thinking with long tubes, intake, and throttle body this setup should ...

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Good Package?

    Does anyone think this is a good package? I'm thinking with long tubes, intake, and throttle body this setup should give me 420 - 450rwhp. I hope.

    PP8417 Comes with our LS6 style with 2.02"/1.57" with 64cc combustion chambers. These will yield an approx. 10.5-1 compression ratio on a LS1 motor. The cam included is our 226/226 .585"/.585" 112 LSA. This package is a great setup for the street. Also included are our 1.7 ratio shaft mounted roller rocker arms.

    Thanks for any help in advance.

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    Missing 4 Cylinders BULLET_WS6's Avatar
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    about right on for a m6... good package but your limiter there will be the heads... they are an upgrade... but they wont take you that far... but i would put that at about 420-430 to the wheels

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Better Package

    I guess it goes with out saying this is a better package.

    PP8402 Comes with our LS6 style with 2.02"/1.57" with 59cc combustion chambers. These will yield an approx. 11-1 compression ratio on a LS1 motor. The cam included is our 226/226 .585"/.585" 112 LSA. High Performance Chevy installed this kit on a LS1 bottom end and went from 426 hp to 506 hp. This package is a great setup for the street. Also included are our 1.7 ratio shaft mounted roller rocker arms.

    I think they're both about the same price, and I get better compression from this package.

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    Missing 4 Cylinders BULLET_WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doozjamann View Post
    I guess it goes with out saying this is a better package.

    PP8402 Comes with our LS6 style with 2.02"/1.57" with 59cc combustion chambers. These will yield an approx. 11-1 compression ratio on a LS1 motor. The cam included is our 226/226 .585"/.585" 112 LSA. High Performance Chevy installed this kit on a LS1 bottom end and went from 426 hp to 506 hp. This package is a great setup for the street. Also included are our 1.7 ratio shaft mounted roller rocker arms.

    I think they're both about the same price, and I get better compression from this package.
    yeah it better, but wont really yield that much of a performance diff for now... are you doing this package because it meets your budget or you just truly like it? because if you can stretch your bank a bit we can help you get better heads, nothing really wrong withthe cam though

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    Is 430rwhp all you're ever looking for?

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    I want more but that's a good starting mark. What tips do you have in mind? The bank is pretty open at this point, and so is the wife. So I'm all ears.

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    Missing 4 Cylinders BULLET_WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doozjamann View Post
    I want more but that's a good starting mark. What tips do you have in mind? The bank is pretty open at this point, and so is the wife. So I'm all ears.
    call tony mamo at afr... talk to him... he can hook you up with better heads.. or do what i wanna do... trickflow makes some mean heads... i dont want to step on any toes here... but ls6 heads or patriot heads are what i call, temporary mods, or budget mods... it will do great, but it will be your limiter... do you really want to be limited right off the bat? talk to tony mamo about hooking you up with a fast 90/90 ported and polished setup with match flowed heads by him... he's amazing.. you are talking about jackin up the price quite a bit but if you do it right you can expect high 400's tothe wheels with decent supporting mods... like 470-490 depending on all the options... and tune

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLET_WS6 View Post
    ...i dont want to step on any toes here... but ls6 heads or patriot heads are what i call, temporary mods, or budget mods... it will do great, but it will be your limiter... do you really want to be limited right off the bat? ...
    oh, i would love an explination in regards to this comment. please inform us all on how Ls6 or P.P heads 'limit' anything. is this coming from personal experience with any of the aftermarket brands you speak of above. my opinion is that unless you have delt with any of these heads personally on a car you have owned, using the words 'temp, budget, limited', comes off as implying 'inferior' aftermarket. is this the point you are trying to get across...?

    i wont step on any toes, so in my effort, ill just run over them. while Patriots and some Ls6 ported heads are hit and miss w/some applications, the same has been experienced with AFR and TrickFlow. that's the realization with going aftermarket: shit is hit and miss. nothing in life is 100%...

    heads are not ment to be some 'temp' mod. they are ment to compliment the setup just like every other piece/component, to maximize the potiental of the parts as a whole and to meet the goals desired. its up to the buyer to figure out what he wants and then find a path to get there how one sees fit...

    sure there is always going to be the 'price' debate, budget or not. that comes down to the buyer. if one feels that an extra $1000+ for 5-10hp more is worth it then good for him. most out there are on a budget. if people do enough research and enough 'shopping around' great deals can be found, regardless of what aftermarket parts they go with...

    to the O.P.: i would suggest looking into the package w/the 59cc heads. the smaller 'cc' chamber is the reason for the increase in the C/R which might give you a little more power as a result. note however that if the 226/.585/112lsa cam is not big enough for you, and you decide to go larger, you might run into PTV clearance issues and might need to flycut the pistons. you can call and talk to Gunnar and see if you wish to go larger in the future how 'big' can you go before clearance becomes an issue. do your research and then decide what your goals are and what will work the best for you...

    you also have not stated what current mods (if any) you have done. I can tell you from my personal experience with Patriot heads (2.02/1.57,59cc) and a little 224/.581/112lsa, Ls6 intake i was sitting at 409/386 to the rear. i can see you getting around 410-420 w/the set-up youre looking at, but anymore would be a surprise (your Ls1 intake is your choking point and dumping money to get a P&P TB would be a waste of money. So would going to an Ls6 intake once youve gone H/C. coming from personal experience, im trying to save you money and grief). I swapped for a ported FAST90/90 and currently sit at 443/402, 6-spd car, stock gears/rear. not bad for a small cam, and so called 'budget/limited' heads. nothing in my set-up is 'limiting' anything...

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    Missing 4 Cylinders BULLET_WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    oh, i would love an explination in regards to this comment. please inform us all on how Ls6 or P.P heads 'limit' anything. is this coming from personal experience with any of the aftermarket brands you speak of above. my opinion is that unless you have delt with any of these heads personally on a car you have owned, using the words 'temp, budget, limited', comes off as implying 'inferior' aftermarket. is this the point you are trying to get across...?

    i wont step on any toes, so in my effort, ill just run over them. while Patriots and some Ls6 ported heads are hit and miss w/some applications, the same has been experienced with AFR and TrickFlow. that's the realization with going aftermarket: shit is hit and miss. nothing in life is 100%...

    heads are not ment to be some 'temp' mod. they are ment to compliment the setup just like every other piece/component, to maximize the potiental of the parts as a whole and to meet the goals desired. its up to the buyer to figure out what he wants and then find a path to get there how one sees fit...

    sure there is always going to be the 'price' debate, budget or not. that comes down to the buyer. if one feels that an extra $1000+ for 5-10hp more is worth it then good for him. most out there are on a budget. if people do enough research and enough 'shopping around' great deals can be found, regardless of what aftermarket parts they go with...

    to the O.P.: i would suggest looking into the package w/the 59cc heads. the smaller 'cc' chamber is the reason for the increase in the C/R which might give you a little more power as a result. note however that if the 226/.585/112lsa cam is not big enough for you, and you decide to go larger, you might run into PTV clearance issues and might need to flycut the pistons. you can call and talk to Gunnar and see if you wish to go larger in the future how 'big' can you go before clearance becomes an issue. do your research and then decide what your goals are and what will work the best for you...

    you also have not stated what current mods (if any) you have done. I can tell you from my personal experience with Patriot heads (2.02/1.57,59cc) and a little 224/.581/112lsa, Ls6 intake i was sitting at 409/386 to the rear. i can see you getting around 410-420 w/the set-up youre looking at, but anymore would be a surprise (your Ls1 intake is your choking point and dumping money to get a P&P TB would be a waste of money. So would going to an Ls6 intake once youve gone H/C. coming from personal experience, im trying to save you money and grief). I swapped for a ported FAST90/90 and currently sit at 443/402, 6-spd car, stock gears/rear. not bad for a small cam, and so called 'budget/limited' heads. nothing in my set-up is 'limiting' anything...
    ok well you took that completely wrong... i may not have them on any car... but know all benchflow testing rates, and looking at all the different heads in my extensive research... i have learned that the flow they provide is great to acheive mid 400's but i feel that if you are wanting to go big, having a head that has better flow and in trick flow's case different valve angles, can be your strong point and just leave your fast 90/90 as the part that flows the least.. yes with some setups they can be hit or miss.. but thats why i told him to call tony mamo and have him help you match it up... honestly your set up is great... but according to this guy he doesnt plan on stopping there and i dont want to see him have to get diff heads... i once again think your car is a hell of a beast and your cam/heads setup is matched perfectly... but you get a set of trick flow, or afr's matched with a great cam and you generally see higher performance... sorry if that upset you...

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    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLET_WS6 View Post
    ok well you took that completely wrong... i may not have them on any car... but know all benchflow testing rates, and looking at all the different heads in my extensive research... i have learned that the flow they provide is great to acheive mid 400's but i feel that if you are wanting to go big, having a head that has better flow and in trick flow's case different valve angles, can be your strong point and just leave your fast 90/90 as the part that flows the least.. yes with some setups they can be hit or miss.. but thats why i told him to call tony mamo and have him help you match it up... honestly your set up is great... but according to this guy he doesnt plan on stopping there and i dont want to see him have to get diff heads... i once again think your car is a hell of a beast and your cam/heads setup is matched perfectly... but you get a set of trick flow, or afr's matched with a great cam and you generally see higher performance... sorry if that upset you...
    trust me, im not upset and certianly no offense taken...

    i know and understand what you mean. like already said, it's about finding what works best and what parts compliment the entire setup. in some cases though people have splurged and ended up getting too much 'head' and that also leads to the 'hit and miss'...

    call Mamo, call Gunnar, both will never lead one in the wrong direction...

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    I thought my thread was getting jacked.

    Thanks for the tips guys. I'll call Mamo, and Gunnar and talk to them.

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    My recommendation would be to call guys who don't really have a stake in what you choose. I would be willing to bet that Gunnar says "Hey, AFRs are good heads, but for the price difference ours are a much better value." and Tony will say "Nothing against Patriot, they're some good guys over there, but our heads are a better flow, and a better quality, so yeah, ours cost more, but they're better."

    Why not get some input from guys who are putting setups together. If 420rwhp HP is your goal, the guy that put my setup together can get you there without doing heads. I'm running 402/397(though for some reason, people keep calling BS on those numbers) rwhp/rwtq and my heads haven't been touched, and I'm in a stock intake too. Granted, my cam is 230/234 114 lsa custom grind, and I'm running !egr, !air, !cats. This isn't a DD obviously, but if I had to choose between driving my stock nissan 300zx twin turbo or my camaro every day, I'd choose the camaro. Frost (the sponsor here) has had some experience with the engine guy I'm dealing with and has much respect for him.

    My setup cost me 5800, including labor and tuning, but you could save money a few places where I chose not to. I went with an $800 set of American Racing stainless steel headers, you could do coated pacesetters for 4-500 less.

    Also, some things to think about... If you're getting to 420+ rwhp, do you have an upgraded clutch? My stock clutch slips occasionally once I'm really into the meat of my tq curve, and I have yet to try a real launch, and I don't have particularly sticky tires. If you're going to get into the mid 400s for RWHP, a stock clutch won't last, and if you plan to really launch that car, likely neither will the stock rear.

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Honestly, my racing days are over I just want a real baddazz toy. Something to drive around every once in a while when the weather is nice. It's going to be sort of my Sunday crusin hot rod. No tracks, no street racing, unless some punk ricer makes me mad.

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    Then give us all a big screw you, take your 5000, buy a procharger, install that puppy yourself, rent a car trailer for 50 bucks, tow it to the nearest reputable tuner, and put all this low to mid 400s nonsense to bed and end up in the mid to high 400s for around the same money.

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gashkerwin View Post
    Then give us all a big screw you, take your 5000, buy a procharger, install that puppy yourself, rent a car trailer for 50 bucks, tow it to the nearest reputable tuner, and put all this low to mid 400s nonsense to bed and end up in the mid to high 400s for around the same money.

    Gives me another option to think about.

    Thanks gashkerwin
    Last edited by doozjamann; 05-03-2008 at 09:21 AM. Reason: typo

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    Personally I say Texas Speed has better head/cam pakages.

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    what do you guys think about this package from patriot?

    https://www.patriot-performance.com/...3&cat=0&page=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    Personally I say Texas Speed has better head/cam pakages.
    I agree.

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    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    I looked at the packages from Texas Speed. Just curious will they let you make the CC chambers smaller, if you get a .600 cam. What kind of HP do you think it will generate. I like the prices and the packages, especially they let you choose the cam of choice. I think that is the route I'm going to take....looks like more bang for the buck.

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doozjamann View Post
    I looked at the packages from Texas Speed. Just curious will they let you make the CC chambers smaller, if you get a .600 cam. What kind of HP do you think it will generate. I like the prices and the packages, especially they let you choose the cam of choice. I think that is the route I'm going to take....looks like more bang for the buck.
    Wise choice. I know you they'll mill the heads for you wich will raise the compression.

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