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G5X3 too big? Cam experts please advise.

This is a discussion on G5X3 too big? Cam experts please advise. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Im running a 220/224 580/580 114 cam in which final lift #'s are attained using crane's 1.89 variable ratio rocker ...

  1. #1
    eviLS6
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    G5X3 too big? Cam experts please advise.

    Im running a 220/224 580/580 114 cam in which final lift #'s are attained using crane's 1.89 variable ratio rocker arms. With Patriot stg 2 heads, SVO 30 lb injectors, and LG LT's with cats my LS6 couldnt throw down more than 404 rwhp, 395 rwtq on an eddy current dyno with 91 octane.

    I want more power, I was looking at monster cams and the G5x3 caught my eye, but from a few local shops around my area they advised against it. One said with that much duration it will make great #'s on paper but wont have much midrange power, the other shop said it wouldnt be a good cam for a DD and that 112 would surge a lot.

    I had a 112 lsa cam in my blown TA of late, and it did surge but it didnt bother me. I am concerned with making power and useable power at that. One of the shops recommended to stay within 22# duration for good midrange power. The other had a valid point that 112 would NEVER pass the sniffer, at this point I could care less about smog, MORE POWER!!

    The other shop also mentioned that the G5x3 wont work with Patriot heads, I spoke with patriot and the deck height is identical to LS6 heads, the combustion chambers are smaller and that is how the 10.7 compression is made. Valve diameter shouldnt matter right?

    I plan on ditching the crane rocker arms for stock ones, and stock length pushrods to work with a bigger cam.

    Any suggestions?
    Last edited by eviLS6; 01-09-2006 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Did you buy a package or individual parts? I was thinking about going w/ the same heads and injectors you have, but getting the TREX cam instead of the G5X3. I don't drive my car a whole lot so I'm not that worried about the streetability. I know it won't be smooth, but w/ a cam called TREX, what do you expect! More Power!

  3. #3
    eviLS6
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    individual parts, I shouldve gone with a bigger cam in conjunction with the stock rockers. Hopefully some cam masters will shed some light on this.

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    Tech Junkie hammertime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eviLS6
    The other shop also mentioned that the G5x3 wont work with Patriot heads, I spoke with patriot and the deck height is identical to LS6 heads, the combustion chambers are smaller and that is how the 10.7 compression is made. Valve diameter shouldnt matter right?
    If patriot is not milling the deckto create the smaller combustion chamber, and the valves are the same size as stock, then you'll probably be ok. Not knowing what the lift and duration numbers are exactly on the G5X3, your safest bet is to mock-up the heads and cam (properly degreed!) and clay the pistons to see what your running clearance would be. Be sure to use solid lifters to check, and slowly turn the engine over to feel for resistance.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    why are you going to remove the crane rockers? why not keep them?

  6. #6
    eviLS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23
    why are you going to remove the crane rockers? why not keep them?
    Well, I cant post my graph here and I dont want to incite an argument with you as it seems you definetely have some ties with VHP. But on my dyno, which we did 5-6 times back to back, there's a abrupt drop off in power at 6k, the power does attempt to come back at 6300 but at that point its too late.

    We attributed the drop to the valvetrain, and with the rocker arms there that arent proven we attributed the drop off to them. I have plenty of seat pressure, Im running dual patriot golds that came with the heads.

    Im hoping that by going back to stock rocker arms and a cam with more duration and less lsa will be worth my $ and time.

  7. #7
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23
    why are you going to remove the crane rockers? why not keep them?
    too much lift with the cam he wants.
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

  8. #8
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    that cam is alittle much for a daily driver.
    a local here has the cam you want. it does have midrange power, but really shines in the upper rpm range.

  9. #9
    eviLS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula
    that cam is alittle much for a daily driver.
    a local here has the cam you want. it does have midrange power, but really shines in the upper rpm range.
    As stated before, I want to remove the rocker arms because there is a abrupt drop off in power at 6k, only thing we can attribute that to is valvetrain, dont know if its valve float or what but its certainly valvetrain, only thing to point the finger at is the rocker arms.

    They are significantly heavier than the OE stamped ones, and the additional weight really negates any gains in "rigidity", or reliability, Ive yet to see any post's here or elsewhere about people losing their needle bearings with the stock rockers either.

    These rocker arms really arent proven, I know of a handful of people running them, and none of them personally. I initially got them because If I had issues with passing smog I planned on swapping the rocker arms to a OE 1.7 rocker and retune, in hopes that the combination would reduce lift and duration #'s to get me through smog without doing a cam swap.

    Now Im here in California and it seems everyone with an LS1 is running 240+ 112 lsa cams without dismay.

    Who is your buddy and what cam does he have that I really need? I cant run more than 230/230 with these heads, right now Im looking at Futral's F13 112.

  10. #10
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    my friend has the G5X3 on stock heads.
    im surprised people in cali are passing smog with those big cams.
    the f13 is more mid-top end power.
    i have the good ole 224/224 and it pulls nicely all the way up to 6500 prm.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    do i have ties with VHP? yes. i do some independant product testing for them. i am not employed by them.

    the rockers are a whooping 5 grams heavier than stock. people keep blaming the rockers for that supposed valvetrain harmonic problem. yet, when investigated further, most have found it to be timing, fuel, or spring pressure.

    to say the rockers aren't proven would be incorrect. tony mamo of AFR uses the 1.7 accelerated lift rockers in his car. john reese, a client of VHP, runs 9.80s in his corvette with them. and yes, i know of all those people that run with stock rockers in the 9s as well.

    and no, i wasn't trying to incite an arguement with you. just wondered why. keep us posted as to how it all works out.

    and seeing as how you said our dyno, the shop wouldn't happen to be DEZ RACING would it? and sign on as slowhawk on ls1tech?

  12. #12
    eviLS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23
    do i have ties with VHP? yes. i do some independant product testing for them. i am not employed by them.

    the rockers are a whooping 5 grams heavier than stock. people keep blaming the rockers for that supposed valvetrain harmonic problem. yet, when investigated further, most have found it to be timing, fuel, or spring pressure.

    to say the rockers aren't proven would be incorrect. tony mamo of AFR uses the 1.7 accelerated lift rockers in his car. john reese, a client of VHP, runs 9.80s in his corvette with them. and yes, i know of all those people that run with stock rockers in the 9s as well.

    and no, i wasn't trying to incite an arguement with you. just wondered why. keep us posted as to how it all works out.

    and seeing as how you said our dyno, the shop wouldn't happen to be DEZ RACING would it? and sign on as slowhawk on ls1tech?
    Ok cool, we just dont know what else it is, springs are patriot golds, injectors are SVO 30 lb injectors, so I dont think its fuel or spring pressure, car was tuned by charlie at A&A performance in oxnard, he used edit. I dont know what is causing the drop off, but thats our assumption.

    Every shop I spoke with told me to ditch the rockers. An LS1 powered C5 on VHP's site put down similar power #'s, "punisher power package" with ported LS1 heads that Im willing to bet flow as well as the patriot stg 2 heads, Id like to know if that car ran into the same drop off. The numbers and parts are really similar. If I didnt run into that drop off it wouldve pulled another 20 rwhp, It made 404 rwhp at 6k rpm.....so it still has a useable powerband up until 6k.

  13. #13
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    which car exactly? you can PM me the link so i can tell you or ask roger vinci. my 'dip' has come and gone. all from tuning.

  14. #14
    eviLS6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula
    my friend has the G5X3 on stock heads.
    im surprised people in cali are passing smog with those big cams.
    the f13 is more mid-top end power.
    i have the good ole 224/224 and it pulls nicely all the way up to 6500 prm.
    Doesnt sound like a 224/224 will benefit much more than my current cam 220/224

  15. #15
    eviLS6
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23
    which car exactly? you can PM me the link so i can tell you or ask roger vinci. my 'dip' has come and gone. all from tuning.
    pm sent

  16. #16
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    received and answered.

  17. #17
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eviLS6
    Doesnt sound like a 224/224 will benefit much more than my current cam 220/224
    i agree.
    i think a 228/228 would be more for youre liking though.

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