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Did i get screwed on my cam dyno/install?

This is a discussion on Did i get screwed on my cam dyno/install? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD Well im going with the AFR Mongoose 205cc 76cc bare heads and am going to get ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD View Post
    Well im going with the AFR Mongoose 205cc 76cc bare heads and am going to get them milled so im hoping to push up a bit into the 400's...The cam i have now i like, powerband is relativity low (2000-6400) so i get power where it belongs and the driveability is as good as it can get with a cam that size but i still think allil more can be squeezed out from the tune,,,,?
    you could go back and just dyno the car and get a different number. it's a matter of what kinda day it is. if it's raining, it'll throw the numbers off. altitude plays a factor in it as well. if it's really hot out, lower numbers. the correction factor can only extrapolate so far.

  2. #22
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    stock heads are 66cc. you need to have at least that. getthe 66cc heads and mill them to 63cc or a little lower. if you start off with the 76cc, then you are wasting the effort of milling them. plus, you are bringing the valves closer to the pistons. this can be a problem with certain cams.
    Gotcha gotcha!!!! Aite then 66cc it is....Ill get em milled to 63 or less like u said...Now does porting and polishing help or is that basically all milling?? and when i get the LSX 90/90 combo would it be worth it to port match?

  3. #23
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    you could go back and just dyno the car and get a different number. it's a matter of what kinda day it is. if it's raining, it'll throw the numbers off. altitude plays a factor in it as well. if it's really hot out, lower numbers. the correction factor can only extrapolate so far.
    Yea i knew all thoes things played a roll in the HP numbers...The numbers arent the major concern, technically speaking there just for show its how the power it put to the floor and throughout the powerband that counts and that all i wanna make sure is top notch..

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD View Post
    Gotcha gotcha!!!! Aite then 66cc it is....Ill get em milled to 63 or less like u said...Now does porting and polishing help or is that basically all milling?? and when i get the LSX 90/90 combo would it be worth it to port match?
    when you buy the heads, they will already be ported and all that jazz. porting heads has to do with the intake and exhaust runners.

    port matching is just a fine tuning type of thing.

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    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    when you buy the heads, they will already be ported and all that jazz. porting heads has to do with the intake and exhaust runners.

    port matching is just a fine tuning type of thing.
    I see guess it wont do anything crazy mayb an extra 5 or so...Not worth $300-$400

  6. #26
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeeD4SpeeD View Post
    I see guess it wont do anything crazy mayb an extra 5 or so...Not worth $300-$400
    port matching, no. fully porting the intake all the way through to match the runner size of the heads, yes it can make a difference. port matching is just making the intake manifold to the port size of the runner on the head. we are talking about 1/4" deep into the intake. to do it correctly, entails going all the way through the intake runner of the manifold itself. ask the porter what he defines as port matching.

  7. #27
    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    port matching, no. fully porting the intake all the way through to match the runner size of the heads, yes it can make a difference. port matching is just making the intake manifold to the port size of the runner on the head. we are talking about 1/4" deep into the intake. to do it correctly, entails going all the way through the intake runner of the manifold itself. ask the porter what he defines as port matching.
    Mayb i should....Thought that price was a little high, but if porting all the way through it is how its done that mayb it will be something else to consider to pick up more HP.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    every little bit helps in the overall picture. it's the return on investment is where people start struggling. is $10/hp a good investment? is $40/hp? it just depends on you. i just spent $1900.00 on valvetrain (shaft rockers, 3/8 pushrod) for my 408. most people spend about $600.00 (stock rockers and 5/16 pushrods stock diameter) at most.

    i may only get another 20-30 hp out of it, but i can gaurantee i won't have any valvetrain issues. that's where i differ from most. i don't only look at cost per horsepower. i look for stability and control.

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    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    every little bit helps in the overall picture. it's the return on investment is where people start struggling. is $10/hp a good investment? is $40/hp? it just depends on you. i just spent $1900.00 on valvetrain (shaft rockers, 3/8 pushrod) for my 408. most people spend about $600.00 (stock rockers and 5/16 pushrods stock diameter) at most.

    i may only get another 20-30 hp out of it, but i can gaurantee i won't have any valvetrain issues. that's where i differ from most. i don't only look at cost per horsepower. i look for stability and control.
    And for you being like that you have a nice stable motor with the less likelyhood of failure in the future which is smart...Others would like to save a quik buck to spend on other performance mods...I guess when they say if your gunna do it, do it balls out!

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    I've been trying to do a balance of those 2. mrr23 isn't running your normal weekend cruiser kind of car. His car is beyond that. I just use mine on the weekends and lay into it on occasion so I've bought parts accordingly. I've tried to balance price with what I use the car for. I don't go to the track so there's really no need for me to have the beefiest stuff out there. I can get away with hardened pushrods and things like that because my shift points will stay in the low 6's. I did drop the dime for a 12 bolt though because at some point the stocker was gonna strand me somewhere. I also did the suspension stuff and a racetronix kit at the same time because that just made sense.

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    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    I've been trying to do a balance of those 2. mrr23 isn't running your normal weekend cruiser kind of car. His car is beyond that. I just use mine on the weekends and lay into it on occasion so I've bought parts accordingly. I've tried to balance price with what I use the car for. I don't go to the track so there's really no need for me to have the beefiest stuff out there. I can get away with hardened pushrods and things like that because my shift points will stay in the low 6's. I did drop the dime for a 12 bolt though because at some point the stocker was gonna strand me somewhere. I also did the suspension stuff and a racetronix kit at the same time because that just made sense.
    See my car is a DD but i bring it to the track atleast 2 sundays a month...So if im going to be competing against ricers or other muscle cars espically my fathers i wanna get the best parts without spending a fortune...Thats y when i see someother people with almost the same mods i get annoyed wondering if my tuner knows what hes doing but everyone says my numbers are accurate so i'll just build from there...

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    Senior Member slims00ls1z28's Avatar
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    You better look into a new rear end sometime in the future as well. But your numbers sound good enough, you gotta look into more than just the numbers such as what type of dyno, what temps, altitude, humidity etc stuff like that might cause someone esles numbers to be different with the exact same build. Then look at mileage etc, and lastly factory tolerances. These are mass produced engines. You can get 5 crate mass production engines and I bet they dyno close to each other but not exactly the same..

    I'd get the rear end before I got the heads. Same cost but as mrr23 said sometimes the cost of upgrading for stability outweighs the cost of performance. It's not a matter of "if" with a M6 you will make yours go boom but when and what will it take with it? I know with an auto and my not so stellar times mine was safe however I still got it before I added too much power to keep from destroying something else. I'll smile everytime I launch off a high stall converter knowing my complete drivetrain can take it.

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    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    You better look into a new rear end sometime in the future as well. But your numbers sound good enough, you gotta look into more than just the numbers such as what type of dyno, what temps, altitude, humidity etc stuff like that might cause someone esles numbers to be different with the exact same build. Then look at mileage etc, and lastly factory tolerances. These are mass produced engines. You can get 5 crate mass production engines and I bet they dyno close to each other but not exactly the same..

    I'd get the rear end before I got the heads. Same cost but as mrr23 said sometimes the cost of upgrading for stability outweighs the cost of performance. It's not a matter of "if" with a M6 you will make yours go boom but when and what will it take with it? I know with an auto and my not so stellar times mine was safe however I still got it before I added too much power to keep from destroying something else. I'll smile everytime I launch off a high stall converter knowing my complete drivetrain can take it.

    Very true.....I keep thinking about getting the rear but mine SO FAR is rock solid but i know that wont last long if i add a nice set of heads cuz ill probably be near 430RWHP and 415RWTQ which i think is WAAAAAY more that our 10bolt wishes to handle....Plus whatever other mods i decide to do which is basically every bolt on they have available for our cars....So i am going to order it after the heads tho but as for when the heads are on i wont be racing as so i dont destroy anything and take other crap with it as you said...

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    Member ProwlerZ's Avatar
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    Looks right on to me, but is it really that important? Compare timeslips, not dyno numbers, there's a lot less variation there, and what differences exist, tend to be justified by the rest of the car and the driver. I understand the desire to hit big numbers on the dyno, and everybody wants to hit 400 rwhp cam-only, but you really need heads to do it right; a cam-only car in the 400s is going to have a much shorter powerband, and ultimately slower on the street, so pick and choose!
    She's baaaaaccccck...

    '02 Z/28 M6 Hardtop

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    Senior Member NeeD4SpeeD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProwlerZ View Post
    Looks right on to me, but is it really that important? Compare timeslips, not dyno numbers, there's a lot less variation there, and what differences exist, tend to be justified by the rest of the car and the driver. I understand the desire to hit big numbers on the dyno, and everybody wants to hit 400 rwhp cam-only, but you really need heads to do it right; a cam-only car in the 400s is going to have a much shorter powerband, and ultimately slower on the street, so pick and choose!
    Yea i hea ya man......Makes sence....and thats what im looking for. 1/4mile times over show HP numbers... Well c what happens when i get thoes heads...Which ever ones i decide are best for 1/4mile performance

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