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Cam without heads.. on a budget..

This is a discussion on Cam without heads.. on a budget.. within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Ok I have done a little bit of research, but before going any further I wanted to see if my ...

  1. #1
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    Question Cam without heads.. on a budget..

    Ok I have done a little bit of research, but before going any further I wanted to see if my expectations are unreasonable. As odd as this may seem I am really interested in a cam that hits with some fair HP gains, but primarily my focus is sound. I don't go to the track, but like seeing what my car does on the street. Currently it is a DD (for now) and an M6. My question is can I just install a cam w/ springs and possibel pushrods and oil pump without modifying or removing the heads. My purpose is money... I want something that is cheap with good sound and some HP gains. I don't have a specific nudget, but something in the 700-800 for all parts. Is this doable or should I just wait until I get extra cash? Is the oil pump and pushrods a necessity or are there ways around that? My car is not heavily modified. I have a cutout for the exhaust, lid, filter, and ported TB and that is about it. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by JehalinTA View Post
    Ok I have done a little bit of research, but before going any further I wanted to see if my expectations are unreasonable. As odd as this may seem I am really interested in a cam that hits with some fair HP gains, but primarily my focus is sound. I don't go to the track, but like seeing what my car does on the street. Currently it is a DD (for now) and an M6. My question is can I just install a cam w/ springs and possibel pushrods and oil pump without modifying or removing the heads. My purpose is money... I want something that is cheap with good sound and some HP gains. I don't have a specific nudget, but something in the 700-800 for all parts. Is this doable or should I just wait until I get extra cash? Is the oil pump and pushrods a necessity or are there ways around that? My car is not heavily modified. I have a cutout for the exhaust, lid, filter, and ported TB and that is about it. Thanks
    Pushrods are good to change if you're going to do the swap. As for the oil pump... not a necessity. A timing chain upgrade would be recommended if anything else.

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Look for a used 228 112lsa cam, that will give you a get bump in power and you WILL hear it.
    Springs are needed, pushrod lenght needs to be checked and if your old oil pump goes out it can take out the rest of the engine....I'd go with a high volume oil pump.

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    "a great cam with poor heads will perform poorly. a good cam with great heads will perform greatly." something to keep in mind.

    picking a cam on sound alone is a bad way to go about it. duration and lsa play the biggest role in sound by the way.

    as you are a m6 look into the 112lsa that will give you a nice sound. besides that imho depending on how far you want to go with the cam..you are not ready. you are choking the cam not only in the intake side of things but also the exhaust side of things (assuming you are not a 01-02 ls1). with that being said the oil pump and timing chain are not a necessity...however they are HIGHLY! recommended..a ls6 ported oil pump or a meilings (sp) oil pump would be a great investment. on top of that a ls2 timing chain is also cheap investment/insurance. if i were you personally i would continue to save and be prepared to drop around $1200 on a cam change to do it properly.

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    If you have a dremel, you can do some work to improve the stock oil pump. Definately go with a new chain and pushrods. If you stay fairly mild(which you should with stock heads) the stock springs will be okay. Just remember, a big cam will suck and blow more air. If you go to big, it will be like the car is breathing through a straw with stock heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    the stock springs will be okay.
    ^ springs on a stock cam are less than stellar ...springs are a absolute must on any cam swap and in reality should be changed even on a stock cam app.

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    tr224 cam 112*lsa or TSP 228r cam kit 112*lsa.need better springs and push rod.

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    you're still on stock manifolds? If so it's really going to choke a cam.

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    cutting and welding mark21742's Avatar
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    Texas is pretty easy on emissions, I would put on a set of longtubes before or during the cam swap.

    FYI I'm still running my stock 241s on my 408...I did my own porting and mill on them...I'll probably run them for another year or two till I have the time and money to get the heads I really want, and might gain 40+ hp with the head swap

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    something else to factor in is the tune.......depending on where you go that's gonna run you in the $400-$500 range most likely. Gonna be tough fitting everything in on that budget. Frost may be able to mail order tune it but a cam on stock manifolds would probably take a lot of convincing for him to tune if he would at all.

    You could however do longtubes and a mail order from frost on that budget.

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Pushrods are a MUST not an option when changing the cam. I dont think you can get a cam package for anything less than $1000 and thats the very least. Texas Speed cam package is around $700 (I would spend $100 extra and get the better springs), then you will need to account for at least $500 for tuning. So your looking at at least $1200, almost double of what you wanted to spend.

    Your not ready for a cam yet. I would do ALL the bolt ons before even thinking about a cam.
    Last edited by rajiv1998; 07-21-2010 at 07:08 PM.
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    Thanks Guys!! I am of the opinion, if you going to do something do it right the first time and you get what you pay for. I think I will hold off on the cam and wait until I can swap the manifold put some headers on and possibly replace the heads. If I am going to tear into it might as well make it easier on myself and do it all at once. I will continue to save mucho dinero for this project and hopefully by that time it will no longer be a daily driver.

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JehalinTA View Post
    Thanks Guys!! I am of the opinion, if you going to do something do it right the first time and you get what you pay for. I think I will hold off on the cam and wait until I can swap the manifold put some headers on and possibly replace the heads. If I am going to tear into it might as well make it easier on myself and do it all at once. I will continue to save mucho dinero for this project and hopefully by that time it will no longer be a daily driver.
    I like the way you think

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    "a great cam with poor heads will perform poorly. a good cam with great heads will perform greatly." something to keep in mind.
    Close but no cigar
    "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power."

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    There are people who run cam only and still produces great numbers and very respectable times. But yes, heads and cam are kind of like oreos and milk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewman View Post
    Close but no cigar
    "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power."
    damn it ... good i dont like cigars anyways ..get your ass onto the fb car club site and post some pictures of your car.

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    Member Dewman's Avatar
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    what fb car club?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewman View Post
    what fb car club?
    mid michigan muscle

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    Quote Originally Posted by JehalinTA View Post
    Thanks Guys!! I am of the opinion, if you going to do something do it right the first time and you get what you pay for. I think I will hold off on the cam and wait until I can swap the manifold put some headers on and possibly replace the heads. If I am going to tear into it might as well make it easier on myself and do it all at once. I will continue to save mucho dinero for this project and hopefully by that time it will no longer be a daily driver.
    if you were to run manifolds, you would want a larger than normal split in exhaust duration to help scavenge with the crappy exhaust

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx View Post
    if you were to run manifolds, you would want a larger than normal split in exhaust duration to help scavenge with the crappy exhaust
    If you were to run manifolds, you might as well not buy a cam.

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