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cam on stock ls1??

This is a discussion on cam on stock ls1?? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Olde Skoole the OP quoted TR228R is the largest cam that you should use with the stock ...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Skoole View Post
    the OP quoted

    TR228R is the largest cam that you should use with the stock heads...

    tell ya what, if you'll do a little research on duration, static compression and how they relate to cylinder pressure then you'll have a better understanding why i don't design street motors with more than 230 degrees duration @.050" lift.

    FYI: the TR228 is capable of producing over 480hp at the back wheels in a 346cid engine with 11.2:1CR, AFR 205cc heads with 62cc chambers, LS6 MAF, LSX intake, 90mm throttle body and 36 lb/hr injectors, just goes to show ya that it doesn't take a lot, just the right combination to make big power....
    from texas speed website on their ms3: "This camshaft has gone as fast as 10.50s n/a with stock heads in our 98 Z28 test car". this is stock 98 crappy heads.

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    from texas speed website on their ms3: "This camshaft has gone as fast as 10.50s n/a with stock heads in our 98 Z28 test car". this is stock 98 crappy heads.
    I'm done with ya....

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Skoole View Post
    and in the same post i recommended 200cc intake runners for a hot 350,
    can u smell the coffee now.....
    You are offering up advice that pertains to the older SBC, and not the LS1. Nobody makes a cylinder head for the LS1 that's smaller than 200cc, not even GM - so why state that you should put 180cc heads on a stock LS1!? The "new" engine allows much more aggressive builds that make more power than the SBC afforded at the same drivability level.

    Finally, what does "a hot 350" have to do with an LS1?

    Edit: Just looked at some of your other posts, and your site. Seems like you know a decent amount about the SBC. But that also means you've got a LOT to learn about this platform, as some of the SBC principles go right out the window. The LS1 doesn't break the rules of engine building, but it does bend them

  4. #24
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    i think he got pissed and left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sroach20 View Post
    i think he got pissed and left.
    nah, i just refuse to let you drag me down to your level...

    My knowledge is better suited to a receptive platform..

  6. #26
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    my leve? so since some olde foole doesnt know a damn thing about "new technology", its down to my level. or are you talking about down to my age level?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Skoole View Post
    tell ya what, if you'll do a little research on duration, static compression and how they relate to cylinder pressure then you'll have a better understanding why i don't design street motors with more than 230 degrees duration @.050" lift.

    FYI: the TR228 is capable of producing over 480hp at the back wheels in a 346cid engine with 11.2:1CR, AFR 205cc heads with 62cc chambers, LS6 MAF, LSX intake, 90mm throttle body and 36 lb/hr injectors, just goes to show ya that it doesn't take a lot, just the right combination to make big power....
    I DID my research on static compression vs camshaft duration: it's called dynamic compression. And even with my 240 degree cam in my daily driven 346" engine, my dynamic compression is optimized for pump gas. Compression masks the side effects of a big cam, and since the LS1 allows 12:1 on 93 octane, you can go bigger with the camshaft.

    FYI: A respected member of another board with nearly an identical combo to to the one you posted was as dead set as you on the whole small cam theory for drivability and good power. He finally ate his words and went with a cam with almost 15 degrees more duration and made more power with the same drivability.

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    So now that hopefully the bickering is out of the way I have another question. I like to drive back to see my family about twice a month and is about 1 1/2 hrs away. Would this cam be tough to drive home for this length of time as I do have full exhaust LTs, ORY, and corsa catback with no cats so I can handle the loud tone of the car basically I'd just be lookin at fumes b/c of eliminating the cats correct? Or would the cam be to heavy for a trip like this?

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    itll be fine, your gas mileage wont be though.

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    Well its not my dd so im not real concerned about gas mileage but i better be able to make it home on a full tank of gas cuz im not trying to build just an all out drag car i do want some drive ability out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olde Skoole View Post
    the OP quoted

    TR228R is the largest cam that you should use with the stock heads...

    tell ya what, if you'll do a little research on duration, static compression and how they relate to cylinder pressure then you'll have a better understanding why i don't design street motors with more than 230 degrees duration @.050" lift.

    FYI: the TR228 is capable of producing over 480hp at the back wheels in a 346cid engine with 11.2:1CR, AFR 205cc heads with 62cc chambers, LS6 MAF, LSX intake, 90mm throttle body and 36 lb/hr injectors, just goes to show ya that it doesn't take a lot, just the right combination to make big power....
    You don't know what your talking about so why spread misinformation. You can't over cam an LS1. T Rex, G5X4, and others are some of the biggest ones that'll fit in a stock headed LS1 and make most power. Drivability is in the eye of the beholder. For a non daily driver/weekend toy an MS3 will work fine. The Texas Speed dual coil springs handle that cam fine and come with the locks and titanium retainers. Take a look at LS1 Tech.coms fastest cam only list. (couple MS3s on their) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187330

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
    So now that hopefully the bickering is out of the way I have another question. I like to drive back to see my family about twice a month and is about 1 1/2 hrs away. Would this cam be tough to drive home for this length of time as I do have full exhaust LTs, ORY, and corsa catback with no cats so I can handle the loud tone of the car basically I'd just be lookin at fumes b/c of eliminating the cats correct? Or would the cam be to heavy for a trip like this?
    As long as the tune is good, the MS3's highway manners will be damn near stock if you step up to a 3.73 or 4.10 gear. I have an MS4 in my car with the same exhaust, and my coworker runs an MS3 with the same exhaust. I have taken my car on 300 mile road trips no problem, and my coworker drives 500 miles round trip between work and home every weekend. Gas mileage for both of us is in the mid 20s. Fumes are only noticable on cold idle in the garage.

    Edit: Just noticed that you have a 98. Due to limitations within the PCM, you MUST find a skilled tuner for that cam. The more aggressive setups can be a bitch to tune on the 98 PCM.
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 12-09-2007 at 10:30 AM.

  13. #33
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    Well we do have a couple of tuners around here but I dont have a clue how familiar they are with ls1's. Also im assuming your an m6 car and not a4 b/c running 4.10s on an a4 with that big of a cam would not get 20 mpg highway? Also have you heard any other knock downs to having a 98?

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    Quote Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
    Also have you heard any other knock downs to having a 98?
    head gasket selection.

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    Yea well lets hope i dont need many of those

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
    Well we do have a couple of tuners around here but I dont have a clue how familiar they are with ls1's. Also im assuming your an m6 car and not a4 b/c running 4.10s on an a4 with that big of a cam would not get 20 mpg highway? Also have you heard any other knock downs to having a 98?
    I have a built auto with 3.73 gears, and my coworkers car is a M6 with 4.10s I've driven my car several times on long highway trips and have always managed 320-350 miles before I feel the need to refuel. Don't get me wrong though, around town I see 10-15, but that's got more to do with my right foot than an inefficient setup

    There are quite a few other things unique to the 98s. Some good like accurate gauges, but moreso bad like harder to tune PCMs, different cylinder head and ignition coil design. They can all be overcome though, so they're more like a speed bump than a road block.

    Again, if you decide to go big with the cam, it is important to find someone familiar with these engines and how to tune them for dramatic airflow changes. Yours being a 98, that is paramount.

    Keep in mind that cam in an otherwise bolt-on only car will feel a little lazy down low compared to stock, but once you hit 3000rpm you'll feel that engine come alive and by 4000rpm you'll forget about any 228 cam

    Edit: A little teaser for you: That's TRMIN8Rs car, an MS3 nitrous car. He's got LOTS of videos floating around - do a search!
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 12-09-2007 at 05:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    I have a built auto with 3.73 gears, and my coworkers car is a M6 with 4.10s I've driven my car several times on long highway trips and have always managed 320-350 miles before I feel the need to refuel. Don't get me wrong though, around town I see 10-15, but that's got more to do with my right foot than an inefficient setup

    There are quite a few other things unique to the 98s. Some good like accurate gauges, but moreso bad like harder to tune PCMs, different cylinder head and ignition coil design. They can all be overcome though, so they're more like a speed bump than a road block.

    Again, if you decide to go big with the cam, it is important to find someone familiar with these engines and how to tune them for dramatic airflow changes. Yours being a 98, that is paramount.

    Keep in mind that cam in an otherwise bolt-on only car will feel a little lazy down low compared to stock, but once you hit 3000rpm you'll feel that engine come alive and by 4000rpm you'll forget about any 228 cam
    yeah, i wish i had the 98 coolant gauge that actually works.

  18. #38
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    If you guys are worried about driveability, look at OVERLAP, not duration. I have aLWAYS made good numbers on the dyno with a g5x3 on a 114lsa, and that 114lsa makes the cam a breeze to tune and leaves the car very very driveable. Have done LOTS of setups with that cam. I'm not posting this to promote that cam over the others posted, but more to point out that the LSA and overlap are driveability and tunability factors.

    Oh yeah, and it's true, the 98 PCMs are a little less friendly, but you don't need some special tuner guy to get them to work out for ya

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    Well im not extremely worried about driveability as it is not my dd just when i do go on trips i want it to be bearable. I'm also an m6 car so its a little easier to handle, but what makes the 98 pcm more of a pita to tune? whats the diff b/w the years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
    Well im not extremely worried about driveability as it is not my dd just when i do go on trips i want it to be bearable. I'm also an m6 car so its a little easier to handle, but what makes the 98 pcm more of a pita to tune? whats the diff b/w the years?
    Nothing that would make much sense if you don't know about it already.... can make it easy and say that the control schemes in the later PCMs work better, and the tables have more resolution in the later models.

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