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Cam Question

This is a discussion on Cam Question within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; thx Orion...

  1. #21
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    thx Orion

  2. #22
    Member ls1wallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    just the chain.....check around....should be a few bucks cheaper than that unless they've gone way up since I did mine.
    At a minimum you'll want pushrods and springs. You can buy a "cam package" that will have everything in it.....$599 for 918 springs or $699 for prc double's.
    I would only do the doubles if your getting crazy with lift. doubles can be a pain in the ass to put on sometimes

  3. #23
    Member youngrigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1wallen View Post
    I would only do the doubles if your getting crazy with lift. doubles can be a pain in the ass to put on sometimes
    I would only do the doubles...

  4. #24
    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    I think I paid 60 bucks for my LS2 chain and timing gears. If the gears looks good, you can get away with just the chain. You'll have to get a puller to get the crank gear off if you decide to change it.

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1wallen View Post
    I would only do the doubles if your getting crazy with lift. doubles can be a pain in the ass to put on sometimes
    With the right tool it's just as easy.

    The 918 beehives are a good spring, with 125 lbs. of seat pressure and good to .600 lift. I'd use em if I had a choice.

    My wifes car however has a Crane version of the LS6 cam which isn't crazy with lift (.551) but for some reason it came with a double spring setup with titanium retainers. Overkill for that cam but it works.

  6. #26
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    jones have you looked into 918's lately? A couple years back they were sending out some bad batches that were breaking on a lot of cars. Supposedly they fixed the issue but i have to say everytime on on forums and see broken springs a lot of times they are still 918's even new ones in fact there were just 2 threads about them on tech each with under 15k on them. To the op id looks into some duals as said but that might be overkill for you look into some pac 1218's or 1518's.

  7. #27
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Haven't looked into the beehive 918's lately. I wouldn't be afraid to run them though if I were building something that could use them. Usually my stuff requires more seat pressure.

    I've had my fair share of broken springs (not 918's). Sometimes that stuff happens. I'd be worried more about proper installed height, seat pressure, open pressure, coil bind, and retainer to valve seal/guide clearance.
    If all that is good, then it's just up to the spring to do it's job at that point. Most of the time harmonics or coil bind breaks the springs.

    Alot of other good springs on the market too though.

  8. #28
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    I've read, and followed the COMP 918 spring problems for awhile. It did seem like they corrected it, but isolated cases of breaking have come up. I run 918's on a .586 (Maybe a tad more, been awhile) cam, and I guess if I were to replace them I would run the PAC 1518, or the double. That's said, I think if set up properly, most of the spring failures would have been avoided.

  9. #29
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    I've read, and followed the COMP 918 spring problems for awhile. It did seem like they corrected it, but isolated cases of breaking have come up. I run 918's on a .586 (Maybe a tad more, been awhile) cam, and I guess if I were to replace them I would run the PAC 1518, or the double. That's said, I think if set up properly, most of the spring failures would have been avoided.
    I had bad experiences with PAC. I ran a set of high dollar PAC springs with electroplate polishing, they were what AFR recommended on a set of their heads I bought. Dual roller springs with a 1.625" diameter, 275 lbs. seat pressure and good for .850 lift.
    Ran the engine on the dyno,,,,installed in the car, drove about 3,000 miles tops.

    Broke 9 out of 18 of those springs. I still have them here in the box. AFR set the heads up, I ran them out of the box. Evidently, they were a bad batch or AFR did a piss poor job installing them.

    I called comp,,,,got a set of their dual 1.625" springs, I installed them to their specified install height. Engine has been fine ever since,,,5 years and probably 25,000 miles.
    I've still got the box full of those broken pieces of junk,,,lol.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I had bad experiences with PAC. I ran a set of high dollar PAC springs with electroplate polishing, they were what AFR recommended on a set of their heads I bought. Dual roller springs with a 1.625" diameter, 275 lbs. seat pressure and good for .850 lift.
    Ran the engine on the dyno,,,,installed in the car, drove about 3,000 miles tops.

    Broke 9 out of 18 of those springs. I still have them here in the box. AFR set the heads up, I ran them out of the box. Evidently, they were a bad batch or AFR did a piss poor job installing them.

    I called comp,,,,got a set of their dual 1.625" springs, I installed them to their specified install height. Engine has been fine ever since,,,5 years and probably 25,000 miles.
    I've still got the box full of those broken pieces of junk,,,lol.
    And there you have it, All brands (not just referring to valve springs) have failures. I've read of both having some failures, if I was going to go off memory, I would say I have read more about COMP. Then again, COMP probably has more springs out there, increasing chances for failure.

    Never heard of half (9) breaking. That definitely sounds like a quality control problem.

  11. #31
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    And there you have it, All brands (not just referring to valve springs) have failures. I've read of both having some failures, if I was going to go off memory, I would say I have read more about COMP. Then again, COMP probably has more springs out there, increasing chances for failure.

    Never heard of half (9) breaking. That definitely sounds like a quality control problem.
    Haha, ya either that or AFR set them up wrong. I had a go around with AFR over that crap a few years ago but that's another story.

    Ya Comp is huge, they probably grind 90% of everything that is floating around out there. I've always liked comp and their customer service, custom cam grinding etc....has always been super.

    I'll snap a pic of those springs just for giggles, I have them packed in a box,,,give me a little time to find them.

  12. #32
    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Haha, ya either that or AFR set them up wrong. I had a go around with AFR over that crap a few years ago but that's another story.

    Ya Comp is huge, they probably grind 90% of everything that is floating around out there. I've always liked comp and their customer service, custom cam grinding etc....has always been super.

    I'll snap a pic of those springs just for giggles, I have them packed in a box,,,give me a little time to find them.
    COMP is a great business. I almost went to work for them years ago in Memphis. Customer support has always been top notch, I bugged them so many times over silly questions

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    I've read, and followed the COMP 918 spring problems for awhile. It did seem like they corrected it, but isolated cases of breaking have come up. I run 918's on a .586 (Maybe a tad more, been awhile) cam, and I guess if I were to replace them I would run the PAC 1518, or the double. That's said, I think if set up properly, most of the spring failures would have been avoided.
    I remember the issues they had with the 918's but that was forever and a day ago in the car world. I haven't really followed up on them so you are probably more aware than I am of any issues they've had recently. I would wonder on the later cases what the lifts were like. Seems the popular cams these days are too much lift for those anyhow. I run PRC doubles on mine more for piece of mind than anything...my lifts are .588 both sides so I technically could've ran the 918's but decided to go with the doubles because I feel better about it and if I ever want to go with a little more lift I can.

  14. #34
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here you guys go,,,something to ponder. Sorry it took so long, they've been packed in a box for a few years. Evidently at some point between Ohio and moving here the box got wet, so don't mind the surface rust.

    Hi-Po,,,,I was wrong on the count,,,,it was 7 broken and not 9,,,,but still........the top row are the good ones left. The rest are broken.
    These are PAC double springs with a damper with electroplate polishing. If you look closely you can see those broken 7 springs were all inside secondary springs.
    This also pounded the hell out of the PC valve seals (lucky no valve guide damage). Not only that but it took out 2 roller lifters and both associated cam lobes. Evidently when the inners broke it bound up the spring, and when the lobe came around and the rocker tried to push the spring down it wouldn't compress,,,which in turn ruined those lifters and wiped the lobes off the cam.

    This was an expensive $1,500+ repair that required another custom ground cam, all new lifters, and completely tearing the engine down to remove debri.

    Thanks AFR.


  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Here you guys go,,,something to ponder. Sorry it took so long, they've been packed in a box for a few years. Evidently at some point between Ohio and moving here the box got wet, so don't mind the surface rust.

    Hi-Po,,,,I was wrong on the count,,,,it was 7 broken and not 9,,,,but still........the top row are the good ones left. The rest are broken.
    These are PAC double springs with a damper with electroplate polishing. If you look closely you can see those broken 7 springs were all inside secondary springs.
    This also pounded the hell out of the PC valve seals (lucky no valve guide damage). Not only that but it took out 2 roller lifters and both associated cam lobes. Evidently when the inners broke it bound up the spring, and when the lobe came around and the rocker tried to push the spring down it wouldn't compress,,,which in turn ruined those lifters and wiped the lobes off the cam.

    This was an expensive $1,500+ repair that required another custom ground cam, all new lifters, and completely tearing the engine down to remove debri.

    Thanks AFR.

    Click for full size
    Wow. That's either a extreme quality control mishap or a total dumbass assembled the heads.

    First I've heard anything bad about AFR, I would bet the employee no longer works for them. AFR and Tony Mamo run a real smooth operation from what I've experienced. Sorry to see that carnage, I'm sure it was devastating.

  16. #36
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    Wow. That's either a extreme quality control mishap or a total dumbass assembled the heads.

    First I've heard anything bad about AFR, I would bet the employee no longer works for them. AFR and Tony Mamo run a real smooth operation from what I've experienced. Sorry to see that carnage, I'm sure it was devastating.
    It was devastating. Funny thing was, the engine ran fine and never skipped a beat,,,good ole BBC. With the over abundance of torque I couldn't tell it may have been down on power either.
    What tipped me of was a strange squeak in the motor, which turned out to be one of the roller lifters. So I started tearing it down and that's what I found. I still have the old cam too with 2 lobes completely gone and the lifters here that were all chewed to hell.

    Ya it was a screw up at AFR. They worked in conjunction with Comp to custom grind the cam for this combo according to their head flow numbers etc....Then they sent me the heads with these springs, which had too much seat pressure to begin with (I later found that out from Comp after the disaster). Talking with AFR and letting them know it was a $1,500 repair,,,they were pretty much silent about the whole thing, wouldn't offer any assistance, not even an appology. I still have the guys name I delt with here somewhere. They just left me hanging with the whole mess.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't use AFR again, they make a killer head. I just don't trust their assembly procedures, and any head from them here on out will get torn down and inspected thoroughly from now on.

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