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cam help

This is a discussion on cam help within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I've been debating on puting a 6.0 in my truck or upgrade the engine that I have. I think I ...

  1. #1
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    Indigo Blue
    2000 ext. cab Silverado

    Lightbulb cam help

    I've been debating on puting a 6.0 in my truck or upgrade the engine that I have. I think I may be better off rebuilding what I have. If I do I want to put a large camshaft in. I will also be puting springs to match the cam, a 2000 stall, 3.73 gears, refresh and update the trans, better pistons and posibly rods. The only problem is I am in california so it has to pass the sniffer and I dont want to suck up to much more gas then it already does.

    Now even though comp cams told me they have never tested it for emissions I think with a good tune the smaller one might pass.
    Here is what I have been looking at so far from comp cams.

    Camshaft Specification Table
    Part Number 54-412-11
    Engine 1997-2006 General Motors
    350ci,
    Gen III/LS1/LS6,
    8cyl.
    Grind Number LS1 XR265HR-14
    Description
    Intake Exhaust
    Valve Adjustment 0 0
    Gross Valve Lift 0.522 0.529
    Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 265 271
    Valve Timing At 0.006
    Open Close
    Intake 21 64
    Exhaust 72 19
    These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 112 Intake CL
    Intake Exhaust
    Duration At 0.05 212 218
    Lobe Lift 0.307 0.311
    Lobe Separation 114
    Recommended Valve Springs 941-16

    OR......


    Camshaft Specification Table
    Part Number 54-414-11
    Engine 1997-2006 General Motors
    350ci,
    Gen III/LS1/LS6,
    8cyl.
    Grind Number LS1 XR269HR-14
    Description
    Intake Exhaust
    Valve Adjustment 0 0
    Gross Valve Lift 0.525 0.532
    Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 269 273
    Valve Timing At 0.006
    Open Close
    Intake 23 66
    Exhaust 73 20
    These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 112 Intake CL
    Intake Exhaust
    Duration At 0.05 216 220
    Lobe Lift 0.309 0.313
    Lobe Separation 114
    Recommended Valve Springs 941-16


    Any one got any suggestions???


    PS. I can hook up any one in the SoCal area with a good price on a Really nice chromoly cage. My buddy owns his own chassis shop. Doing a full chassis on a 3rd gen right now.

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    Senior Member ninobrn99's Avatar
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    if you want to pass emissions, go with either cam, but on a 114 lsa instead of a 112. What size motor is it? 5.3? As for springs, the comp 918's will be fine. You should see a much better torque gain down low with either cam.

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    Indigo Blue
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    Ya i was kinda figuring on installing it on a 114 because I want to add forced induction later. Basically the motor will be a stock 5.3 Its not going to be stroked or any thing. I am not to keen on the factory powder rods so I'll probally upgrade those with eagles. Just do a little work on the heads Nothing major. I drive it every day but want keep up with the new trucks. Those dodges are really showing up my tired old set up. That 6.1 Hemi Is bad ass! I did some protype work with it at my last job before it was released to the public and I would say it's slightly under rated. I'll save all the crazy parts for my 540 build up. Do you know what the factory cam specs on a 5.3 are?

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    Indigo Blue
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    Sorry just relized that i forgot to post what motor In the first post. A good 5.3 build up. Ya hopping to pick up a little more top end too though. I falls a flat around 4200. Obviously it will rev higher but it doesn't seem like its making power after around that point. Also if any one knows of a good/ reasonibly priced engine machine shop in so cal let me know. NOT Superrior Automotive though!!!

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    well a cam will raise your powerband provided you go with a larger one or a lower lsa with no advance. (im pretty sure thats right ) Im not sure how tough 5.3's are or how much you can throw at them N/A, but those cams you picked out would give you more power throughout the powerband. Im not certain what your peak rpm would be though.

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    Indigo Blue
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    well 5.3 and the 4.8 use the same block. Remeber the 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0 are all gen 3 family motors.(I'm not sure about the 8.1 but i believe it is too.) I believe the joe gibbs addition is a supercharged 4.8 with a 5 speed. From what Ive seen they run pretty good with only a bolt on super charger and a tune. Around here the clowns driving the SS Silverado's with basic bolt on's and the little micro tuners can only muster up a 14.7 in the quarter. I realize there heavy but still.

    Now I am not looking run 10's but but picking up a little horse power and keeping up with the new Vets would be good improvment. Esspecially not getting spanked buy a new stock dodge would be good too.

    I looked around and found what I belive is the stock cam specs for a 5.7 LS1. If I remeber its .500 lift .208 duration and 115.5 lobe seperation. Not to far off from the cam i want to throw in.

    Now If i can reach my goals on just the motor, keep it stock looking and, and pass the Sniffer every time. Then I've deffinitly done something right with out getting crazy and blowing alot of cash.

    Thats why It's nice to come to a console like this and get other peoples imput bassed on there knowledge and experince.

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    the likelyhood of keeping up with a new vette is going to be tough..more cubes, more power, less weight...If you go with a 218/222 114 and a good set of heads, you should make a good amount of power. I dont know if you can afford it, but Id see about sending in your stock heads to get ported and milled to bump the compression up a bit. That cam should be a great midrange cam and pass smog with a decent tune. You dont need to get too crazy on the lift..maybe about .585 or so. This isnt an off the shelf cam that I know of, but if its torquey on a 5.7 Im sure it should give you a great gain on a 5.3. I dont know the stroke or bore so its hard to determine..Id assume less bore, but I could be wrong (probably am) your also going to need a good exhaust or I may know of another cam for you that would work well on the stock exhaust manifolds..

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    Indigo Blue
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    Well I already figured on a full exauhst system so that would not be a problem. The factory set up is a little on the restrictive side obviuosly. Here is something I found posted on ebay about a used Z 06 cam from an 03 vette motor. I personally would not buy a used Roller cam but I thought I would post what He had to say and the cam specs. I have not read that book either but maybe i should pic it up.

    The following is a qouted from "bidmaster_case" From his Auction posted on ebay Item # 8076757947

    "Low mileage LS6 hydraulic roller cam as found in the Z06 Corvette. Cam was removed from a 2003 Z06 with 14k miles on the odometer. The springs are brand new GM 'Yellow' LS6 springs capable of supporting 0.570" of lift. Cam specs are: 204/218 duration at .050", 0.550/0.550" Lift. LSA of 117.5 deg.

    Improvements in power in an LS1 will be apparant (in the range of 30hp) but this cam is also a great replacement for the GM 5.3 L V8. In Will Handzel's "How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V8s" (Page 127) this cam was installed in an otherwise stock 5.3 and horsepower increased by 39 hp! After an air cleaner and cat-back upgrade and a tune the total increase was 59 hp and 22 ftlb!!! (352 hp @ 5900 RPM and 346 ftlb @ 4800 RPM) As quoted by Handzel "...this could be the easiest 50 hp bolt-on sequence in hot rod history"

    The installation of the LS6 Yellow springs (standard LS1/LW4 springs will not work) allows engine redline to be increased to 6500 RPM safely. "


    By the way the reality of keeping up with a stock base model vette Is not that far off. I am not saying running neck and neck just be able to keep up enough to scare him. Remeber most of the guys who own those also dont know how to drive them to there full potential. I watched a guy a few weeks back make several inconsitant 1/8 mile passes in his turbo charged Z06. only to watch his wife get in and make her first pass that blew him away by about 4 miles an hour. And trust me She could have done a better job of shiffting.

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    Indigo Blue
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    I finally heard back from comp cams and here is what they had to say after waiting a week for a reply from there cam help section on the web site.

    "Hey there.
    The XR265HR looks pretty good for your application. As far as smog, I can't say
    for sure that it would pass, as we do not have an exemption order for it, but
    the duration is mild enough and the lobe seperation is wide enough that you are
    likely to be able to pass smog with it. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that
    it will pass smog. You may want to take a look at our new Tri-Power extreme
    grinds, which are optimized for fuel economy and performance. You might look at
    the following :

    Part # 54-530-11.

    The specs on this cam are as follows:


    Advertised duration: 254 intake/264 exhaust
    Duration at .050" valve lift 202 intake/212 exhaust
    Valve Lift (1.7 rocker ratio) .507" intake/.500" exhaust.
    Lobe Separation Angle 116


    If I can answer any further questions, or if you would like to place an order
    for this cam, please feel free to contact me at (800) 365-9145 xt 590."

    Now after that i went back to there site and could only find the press release about that and the XFI line for the LS1 engines. However with much dissapointment I could not find any technical specifications. Here was the reponse I got when i told them:

    " I tried to look those grinds up but they wont come up in the search are they in the 2006 catolog? "

    The response i recieved was:

    "Hey there. They are in the new catalog, which can also be viewed on our website by going to the catalog section of the site. "

    I replied with:
    "The only thing I could find was the press release. I could not find specs or part numbers. I also came across XFI cams for ls1 but could not get specs on the cams listed in the press release. It says the part numbers are not listed. any help would be appericiated. thanks!"

    The response recieved was:
    "Hey there.
    Reply with your mailing address and I'll send you the catalog pages containing the info on these cams.
    Thanks!
    -Steve "

    I sent him my addres and asked about the 265 cam working for what i want to do with it:

    "The XR265HR is an XFI cam, so yes, I think that they will work for you. The cam that I recommended is in the XFI RPM series, the other series, RPM Hi Lift, and XE-R, generally have too much duration to be the way to go to meet your requirements of power and smog compliance. Hope this helps. I'll get the pages in the mail for you tomorrow. "


    I asked again about the 265 installed at 114 rather then 112 and this is what he said. Also told him about what I found out about the Z06 cam posted above. here is what he had to say:

    "That should put you where you need to be. Note that the rpm ranges take
    an LS1 into account, and the powerband for the same cam in a 5.3 will be
    around 200-ish rpm higher. Good luck with your cam swap!
    -Steve

    So far this guy seems like he wants to help unlike the guy i talked to last week over the phone.

    We shall see what he sends me.

    In the mean time can anyone else recomend cams from other companies. maybe even talk about there experince dealing with the company. It May help other readers out there

    Also considering posible ordering a custom made cam. may be a bit more lift leave the duration and go with like a 115 lobe seperation just to help keep it smog legal esspecial after I later ad the supercharger. They have a 1 day lead time right now. Any ones imput on this would be greatly appericiated.

    ninobrn99 did you find those specs yet??

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    Indigo Blue
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    I think I found the cam you were trying to tell me about posted for sell by
    gen3performance. FOR SALE:comp cams dur. 216 int. 216 ex. 588 lift @.050 114+2 lobe seperation.ran 25 miles and 2 dyno pulls.made 397bwhp and 379 max torque with no mods except k&n filter in 2000 corvette.located in dfw.selling because i bought a complete engine with a cam allready in it.$250 shipped or best offer.comes with cam card.

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    There was a really good series over the past couple of months in Chevy Hi-Performance that highlighted a build up of the 5.3 called Red Dog. Baselined at 236.7 whp and ended up with 457 whp. Over the series they tested with rocker arms, cat-back, CAI, high flow cats, and eventually ended up with AFR's 205 heads and a Magnuson intercooled blower.

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    Indigo Blue
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    Cool

    Ok I found the OCT. 05 issue were they Actually installed the crane came. It says they installed it straight up So i'm guessing thats at 114 from what i could get of the crane web site. I personally am not really impressed with what they have to offer Though. Thats just my opinion on there stuff. Would like to see what just a cam swap would have done without all the other goodies. Love AFR stuff but couldn't you get the same basic resulst by reworking the stock heads for less money?
    Bottom line I think They blew way to much money on that build up and could have put a better package together for Way less money and probally even got closser to 500 WHP. I dont think that package would pass the sniffer even though they used some C.A.R.B. approved parts.

    I did like the CHP July 06 article on cylinder head secrets Pg. 74 Helps shine a littlle more light in that area. The trans tech in the Red dog 6 article in CHP June 06 pg.82 shines some good light on trans upgrades too.

    According to CHP article in the OCT 05 magazine pg. 77
    "289.4 lb-ft/236.7hp" stock whp
    "299.6 lb-ft/255.9hp" rocker arm swap
    "318.9 lb-ft/273.5hp" adding k&n and bassani exhaust to that package
    "324.2 lb-ft/304.7hp" but lastly adding the crane cam and cam tunner

    According to CHP article in the AUG 06 magazine pg. 50
    The same all out package with The added High flow cat back system, AFR mongoose 205 street heads, and a Magnuson Radix intercooled superchargersystem Produced:
    "334.2 lb-ft/315.7hp" added high flow cats
    "357.3 lb-ft/345.2hp" added AFR 205 mongoose heads
    "440.1 lb-ft/457.1" added suppercharger


    here is what Crane has to offer: I highlighted the one they installed

    HR5 Hydraulic roller series for Chevrolet LS1 V8 and other engines with 55mm journal diameter.
    Profile Advertised Dur. At Tappet Lift Gross Valve Lift Min. Tappet Type Duration .200 At TDC With Zero Lash Dia./Design Duration At At Tappet Tappet 104 114 With Theoretical Lobe Size Code .050 Lift Deg. In. Lift Int. Exh. Rocker Ratio
    1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8
    HR-200/2951 262 .0040 114 .039 .020 .502 .531 F
    HR-208/2951 270 .0040 119 .049 .027 .502 .531 F
    HR-210/3121 272 .0040 126 .052 .029 .530 .562 F
    HR-210/3241 272 .0040 129 .052 .029 .551 .583 F
    HR-216/3241 278 .0040 133 .061 .035 .551 .583 F
    HR-216/344 277 .0040 139 .062 .035 .585 .619 F
    HR-218/3121 280 .0040 131 .064 .038 .530 .562 F
    HR-218/3241 280 .0040 134 .065 .038 .551 .583 F
    HR-220/3241 282 .0040 136 .068 .040 .551 .583 F
    HR-222/3241 284 .0040 137 .071 .041 .551 .583 F
    HR-222/344 283 .0040 144 .072 .041 .585 .619 F
    HR-224/3241 286 .0040 139 .074 .045 .551 .583 F
    HR-224/344 285 .0040 146 .075 .045 .585 .619 F
    HR-228/3241 290 .0040 142 .081 .049 .551 .583 F
    HR-228/344 287 .0040 149 .082 .049 .585 .619 F
    HR-228/353 290 .0040 149 .082 .051 .600 .635 F
    HR-232/3241 294 .0040 145 .088 .055 .551 .583 F
    HR-232/353 294 .0040 152 .089 .056 .600 .635 F
    HR-236/3241 298 .0040 148 .095 .062 .551 .583 F
    HR-236/353 298 .0040 155 .096 .062 .600 .635 F
    HR-240/353 302 .0040 158 .104 .068 .600 .635 F
    HR-246/353 308 .0040 162 .115 .078 .600 .635 F


    HERE IS THE PAGE FOR THAT SPECIFIC CAM SPECS
    http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft

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    The cam that guy was recommending you is pretty close to the ls6 cam. If you like the idea of the cam that guy suggested, by getting the ls6 cam, you can save about $200 instead of going with their cam. If you're that worried about smog, then again (if i didnt already) you're gonna need heads and a baby cam to obtain what you're looking for. Look at getting a set sent to Patriot or TSP to get ported and milled slightly. if you can afford the down time send yours in, if not, get a new set. Either way, sticking with emissions, your truck is going to have more low-mid range power because of the durations of the cams that will pass smog. Here is the cam I was refering to. Ragtop_99 is running this cam tailored for stock exhaust manifolds. Here is a link to the whole thread so you can read it for yourself.
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440051

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    Indigo Blue
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    Well did some more diging on the other site. Those guys really seem to know whats up when it comes to cams. Honestly some of it was over my head. Seems thunder racing cams are popular as are the profiles used on the comp cams. The rpm series cam that was recomended I believe is a little less then what I want. I still think I am in the right area with there HR265 cam I also saw the "Gm Hot cam" Not so impressed with that option either. what are the specs on the ls6 cam you are refering to or is that the hot cam from gm. I looked up TR cams on their web site the old man truck cam is interesting with the 115 LSA +2. I am assuming that means they advanced it 2 degrees from 115?

    As far as the heads I already relize the will need work. I have my eye on a set of new stage 2 heads with the bigger 2.02 intake from west coast cylinder heads that some one is trying to sell cause they need the money. If i dont get those i will probally send mine to patriot they seem to have a realy good reputaion. I am just trying to get my package together before i buy anything. I hate getting some thing I think will work and then selling it to buy something else.

    Just as a refresher I am going to do a full trans rebuild/update with higher stall converter. Same with the rear end but install a locker or posi and 3.73 rear gears. Full exhaust, headers, high flow cats. The whole deal. Right now I am focusing on finding another 5.3 to perform the work on to miniminse the down time. Would prefer to find a local one. I want to do the motor stuff first!

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    the ls6 cam is not the hot cam. These specs may be wrong, but Im pretty sure they're close
    ls6:206/218 117.5
    hotcam:218/228 112 (i think..i dont feel like searching right now )
    Those guys do know their shit. Ive learned from the best A lot of that stuff is also still over my head, but Im understanding it more and more. My honest suggestion is, if you're going to get heads, then get the heads, get the flow numbers and match your cam to them and your overall goals. I know it sounds kinda like a run around, but its the truth. If you're going cam only, then yes, you get a cam and tailor it to other things. It also just hit me that your intake manifold is/is going to be another restriction on raising you RPM's. If I remember correctly, the truck intakes are more geared for torque down low. Thats good if your towing, but you're not..obviously Upgrade that too. I think you all can run the ls6 manifold Im still a novice so dont take my advise or recommendations as word

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    Indigo Blue
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    Hey thats Cool! We all have to start some where. I know my sbc's an bbc's I can put those packages together all day long. The gen 3, I am still learning about.
    I am a little suprised no one else has really chimed in on this. After a little reading on ls1tech.com and the performance truck.net site I think those heads I found would be a little bit much With the larger intake valve. There designed to flow more then what i am looking to do with my package. Actually I do occasionally tow with my truck supprisingly. I think I would be better off having my heads re-worked to fit my package. I am also wondering If I should get a custom grind based around the comp 265 cam I wanted to run. I am thinking a little more lift and a degree or two more on the lobe seperation. After all I will add some sort of forced induction and i think it would help with the smog issue too. I have heard there is a program out there were you can experiment with these changes to kind of give you a base line to see what will work and what will hurt you. I just dont know what it is called or were to get it. I wouldn't mind droping a few bucks to get something like that. If you know where I can get something like that let me know.

    Oh and I believe truck manifolds are the best flowing factory intake because of ther tall design, the problem is they dont fit in any thing other then a truck because of how tall they are.( if i remember they flow a good as a FAST intake ) I'll try and dig up the article.
    Last edited by BB540; 06-22-2006 at 01:30 AM.

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    Indigo Blue
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    Fond this in hot rod:

    By the Numbers
    Liters Cubic Inches Bore/Stroke Comp. Ratio Rod Length Int. Valve Exh Valve

    4.8 293 3.780/3.268 9.5 6.276 1.890 1.551
    5.3 325 3.780/3.622 9.5 6.098 1.890 1.551
    5.7 346 3.898/3.622 9.5 6.098 2.000 1.551
    5.7 346 3.898/3.622 10.1 6.098 2.000 1.551
    6.0 364 4.000/3.622 9.4 6.098 2.000 1.551
    6.0 364 4.000/3.622 10.0 6.098 2.000 1.551

    Engine Horsepower Torque Application
    LR4-4.8L 255 @ 5,200 285 @ 4,000 '99 Truck
    270 @ 5,200 285 @ 4,000
    285 @ 5,200 295 @ 4,000 '04 Truck
    LM7-5.3L 265 @ 5,000 320 @ 4,000 '99 Truck
    285 @ 5,200 325 @ 4,000
    295 @ 5,200 330 @ 4,000 '04 Truck
    SSR-5.3L 300 @ 5,200 330 @ 4,000 SSR Pickup
    LS1-5.7 305 @ 5,200 335 @ 4,000 '98-'99 Camaro
    350 @ 5,200 375 @ 4,000* '04 Corvette
    LS6-5.7L 385 @ 6,000 385 @ 4,800 '01 Corvette
    400 @ 6,000 400 @ 4,800 '04 Corvette
    LQ4-6.0LL 300 @ 4,800 360 @ 4,000 ''01 Truck
    325 @ 4,400 365 @ 4,000 '04 Truck
    LQ9-6.0L 345 @ 5,200 380 @ 4,000 '04 SS Truck

    There are several intake manifolds with the big change between the truck manifolds (left) and the Corvette/Camaro version (right). The best factory intake is the LS6 that is reportedly worth around 10 hp over the LS1.

    Also talks about oil pans and other factory parts.

    This part of the article can be read here
    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...s1/index2.html


    I know I read a comaprison some where that dynoed the new F.A.S.T. intake when it cam out and the truck manifold kept up and almost made it look like it was worth the money except that it was aluminum and it could be ported unlike all the factory manifolds.

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    I dont know of any software that does that..im sure there is, but I dont know what it is. The truck manifold again, will help keep your lowend torque, but the sacrifice there is you lose some top end performance and your rpm range is limited. I dont think an aftermarket set of heads will hurt you. With the right size chambers and milling them a bit along with a slightly thinner gasket you will gain static compression. Along with that you will raise your Dynamic compression which helps keep your under the curve power. You'll gain more with your setup with better flowing heads. Sticking with a set of p/p 5.3 heads is the way to go I think. If you were going to tune it yourself, Id say to expeirment. Keep the stock intake for a bit and see how you like the power. Change over to the ls6 and see how you like the power from that. Whichever you like the most, stick with it.

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    Indigo Blue
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    Ok starting to think it wasn't the F.A.S.T. intake but the holley aluminum one. Also came accross The June 04 Popular Hot Rodding Pg.86 were they tested a stock F- Body LS1 and then upgraded it with the comp cam xr265hr That i was considering, the xr275hr and also the xr281hr and the matching comp cam valve springs for the cam upgrades. On the 265 it gained 20-25 ft-lbs from 3000-4500rpm and about the same in hp. It went from 407hp at 5500rp to 439hp at 6000rpm. It doesnt mention specificly but I believe that was installed on at 114 that the cam was designed for. Also they did not do a tune on it either. I bleieve the same cam in a 5.3 would net another 5-10 hp and ft-lbs across the board since the came in those seems to be slightly smaller then the 5.7 in the F-body.

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    Pewter
    all bore 370 Trans Am

    can u post the actual specs to those cams @.050?

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