Cam choices.

**black04gto** · 12-09-2013, 10:39 PM

Alright guys ill try to included all the info you guys might need sorry if this gets a little long. i have an 04 M6 GTO and im looking at possibilities for a good strong cam. i dont care if it has a choppy idle or not im not buying a cam for the sound. Im trying to stay N/A, my power goal is to kill cobras. Granted there will always be someone faster i want to at least beat a few Cobras. I plan to buy the cam, lifters, lifter trays, TIMING CHAIN??, and pushrods over time and then install myself. Car is a DD but idgaf about driveability. Id like to have good over all power but i know thats not possible on a huge cam. from my understandings you can get a good all around cam but it wont be a really big cam with huge gains. It seems its either good low or good top. Thought about getting a GM Hotcam but i dont think it will give me the power i want. i have looked around at off the shelf cams but i cant seem to find one that fits what i want from a cam. some ppl suggest ordering a custom grind and i think thats a good option but while i do know a good bit about cams i dont know nearly enough to spec one for a grind. Been tossing this around for awhile now, just thought id get some outside opinions.

Mods are:
Awespeed OTRCAI
OBX LT's with catted mids and a custom cat back
PRC stage 2.5 CNC cathedral port heads milled to 60CC combustion chambers equals out to 11.3:1 compression ratio
Dual valve springs
93octane Street Tune
rebuilt diff(old one growled bought a new one and freshened it up with bearings..ect. same 3.42 final tho)

all on the stock bottom end and tranny. got stock 17's and a brand new set of Hankook V12's.

oh btw way im not sure but since the head deck is milled would PTV clearance be on my list of things to watch out for

**Firebirdjones** · 12-10-2013, 04:03 AM

Beating cobra's is a tall order. You'll need a pretty healthy cam.

Interesting that you already have ported heads that are milled to give you that compression ratio. It's going to really like that camshaft

Personally, there are some pretty good off the shelf grinds out there but if it were me I'd contact any of the well known LS engine builders/tuners of your choice and spec a custom cam for it. Given the combo you have with a rather large bump in compression it would really benefit from a custom grind taylored to it.

***SMWS6TA*** · 12-10-2013, 06:47 AM

Talk with Martin at Tick Performance. He help me a lot with my cam selection and gave me a great deal on cam, springs, lifters combo. He would have added pushrods but I held off because I have 2 sets already and need to make sure the length needed.

Hotcam is decent (over stock cam), 224/228 cams would be better for LS1's that see minimal track use but want some peep for DD's. Going with a MS3/4 you are looking at great bump in HP but DD manners starts to take a dent.

Timing chains. LS2 timing chains are pretty good recommendation to go with, now if you plan on using a serious cam then double roller chains are what to look for. Some DR's require mods on the front plate for clearance. Also a C5R timing chains are a step up between the LS2 chain and DR's

Lifters I'm using BTR's lifters and springs.

**black04gto** · 12-14-2013, 06:54 AM

so a new timing chain is a must for a cam upgrade? how hard is a C5R timing chain to come by? if they are anything like the C5R blocks itll be impossible. Do you have a contact number for Martin? Im not worried about poor DD manners. I knew what i was getting into when i bought my car.
I know Cobra killing is a tall order but i just hate them so much. lol

**Firebirdjones** · 12-14-2013, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by black04gto

so a new timing chain is a must for a cam upgrade? how hard is a C5R timing chain to come by? if they are anything like the C5R blocks itll be impossible. Do you have a contact number for Martin? Im not worried about poor DD manners. I knew what i was getting into when i bought my car.
I know Cobra killing is a tall order but i just hate them so much. lol

Lol, no reason to hate, they are at least American based V8 RWD cars like the rest of us.....it's all good

Better than getting beat by some foreign car, as far as I'm concerned.

Does that make you feel better?

Keep in mind you're dealing with a car equipped with a blower. Anything with a power adder like that is just adding cubic inches. Even at 14 lbs. you are doubling the size of that engine. Getting beat by something like that is nothing to be ashamed of.

**black04gto** · 12-14-2013, 07:23 AM

i cant explain it. I just hate anything ford. I dont feel bad for getting smoked by a cobra, tho a blower is the only reason they win. I just want to really surprise them. FI is just way too expensive IMO. 7+ for a complete blower kit on these is just too much. Plus im already setup for high compression. So ill prolly end up having the block clearanced for a 4" stroke thatll put it up to 383. i just want to be able to say aww you couldnt beat my N/A ls1 with your blown 4.6. Im well aware of how much its gonna take to do that but im willing to do it just to beat cobras. they are the only mustangs i loose to right now and that is just unacceptable.

***SMWS6TA*** · 12-14-2013, 07:44 AM

C5R TC's are not hard to come by. Several places sell them.

I can't post a direct link to Tick Performance (non sponsor). But you can search their name.

When you call, ask for Martin.

**redbird555** · 12-15-2013, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by black04gto

Alright guys ill try to included all the info you guys might need sorry if this gets a little long. i have an 04 M6 GTO and im looking at possibilities for a good strong cam. i dont care if it has a choppy idle or not im not buying a cam for the sound. Im trying to stay N/A, my power goal is to kill cobras. Granted there will always be someone faster i want to at least beat a few Cobras. I plan to buy the cam, lifters, lifter trays, TIMING CHAIN??, and pushrods over time and then install myself. Car is a DD but idgaf about driveability. Id like to have good over all power but i know thats not possible on a huge cam. from my understandings you can get a good all around cam but it wont be a really big cam with huge gains. It seems its either good low or good top. Thought about getting a GM Hotcam but i dont think it will give me the power i want. i have looked around at off the shelf cams but i cant seem to find one that fits what i want from a cam. some ppl suggest ordering a custom grind and i think thats a good option but while i do know a good bit about cams i dont know nearly enough to spec one for a grind. Been tossing this around for awhile now, just thought id get some outside opinions.

Mods are:
Awespeed OTRCAI
OBX LT's with catted mids and a custom cat back
PRC stage 2.5 CNC cathedral port heads milled to 60CC combustion chambers equals out to 11.3:1 compression ratio
Dual valve springs
93octane Street Tune
rebuilt diff(old one growled bought a new one and freshened it up with bearings..ect. same 3.42 final tho)

all on the stock bottom end and tranny. got stock 17's and a brand new set of Hankook V12's.

oh btw way im not sure but since the head deck is milled would PTV clearance be on my list of things to watch out for

You've already got a good head start with those heads. However you dont have to sacrifice much with your cam choice. It is possible to have a good all around cam while not giving much up on the big end. A cam like the ms4 will probably make another 15 or so up top than a smaller one but wont drive nearly as well. I know you sad you dont care about how it drives but it would be worth it imo.

With those heads and your wants I'd expect something in the mid 230's range .6xx lift and a 112lsa. This wouldnt sacrifice a lot of driveability and wouldnt lose much if any to the larger grinds. As others have said get with martin at Tick, Allan at Futral, Geoff with eps etc and they can get you squared away.

Out of all of those I would prefer Allan or Geoff, unless you asked Martin to grind your cam on the 8620 steel core. no offense to tick and Martin as he is a great guy but tick uses comp to cut their cams and as of lately comp has been having a lot of QC issues with their normal cores and cams being ground "off." Futral and Eps use cam motion cores which is also another great company to look into, they offer a 232/236 112 cam that may fit your need nicely.

**black04gto** · 12-17-2013, 07:31 AM

alright guys i heard back from martin today. he says that because im running a milled head and i have over sized aftermarket valves that ptv during overlap is going to be an issue. with that in mind he could grind a cam that would make good power but it would only be in the mid 220's. So he recommends that i get my pistons fly cut. i have been considering a 383 stroker kit any way so i asked if he could recommend a kit or just a piston that would fit my needs.

what do you guys think should i stroke it or just have my pistons fly cut by a shop.

The stroker kits are like $2000+ and thats alot of money and would push the build way back. But its is more cubes which equals more power. But all the kits ive seen offer a dished piston, at least -4cc, and im loosing out on compression which is a major thing in my build.

If i get the pistons fly cut im not loosing out on much compression, which is a major thing in my n/a build, and i can get a big cam spec'd and installed and who doesnt love a good loping cam.

**Firebirdjones** · 12-17-2013, 07:43 AM

There are a couple ways to fly cut. One method is done by removing the heads and cutting the pistons while they are still resting in the block. The other would be disassembling the entire engine and having it done that way.

Neither of which is very much fun nor is either method cheap. My personal opinion since I wouldn't be that ambitious to pull heads back off that you just installed, nor am I fond of leaning over fenders trying to fly cut pistons, is to just go with a "safe" cam and enjoy it until you have the funds to do what you really want, and build that stroker.