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big problem with cam install

This is a discussion on big problem with cam install within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ok, recently i was putting a lot of work into my car (fukin finally!) i already put in a good ...

  1. #1
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    1999 T/A

    big problem with cam install

    ok, recently i was putting a lot of work into my car (fukin finally!) i already put in a good suspension along with some 4.10's recently. I finally got my cam but I got a problem with the bolts on the heads.

    the damn head of the bolt broke off. Never seen it happen but its a big problem cause now the rest of the bolt is in there and wont come off.

    anybody have any bright ideas on how to get that thing out???

  2. #2
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    First things first...the heads don't need to come off for a cam swap.

    You will need a drill, a magnet, and some luck. You basicly have to tap the bolt and remove it that way.

  3. #3
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    the head gasket is blown but the magnet idea.........it would have to be a strong magnet

  4. #4
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    The magnet is to pick up the drill shavings.

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    I always found that a shop vac did a better job on getting all the metal shavings out. Just have the vacume running while your drilling that hole down the center. I have always used the Craftsman/Sears extractors and they have never failed me so far. Just be careful and don't drill all the way thru the bolt. You don't need a new water jacket outlet.

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    this may sound very dumb but this is the first car I ever worked on myself and im not the best mechanic so im a little confused. i drill the hole and then what? how do i get the bolt out

  7. #7
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    you could drill it and use an easy out. Which bolt broke? One of the small ones at the top or the larger bolts? Were you turning it the wrong way or something? Mine came out piece of cake and they'd been in there almost 9 years.

  8. #8
    weberje
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    I am an Airframes (hydraulics and structures) mechanic on AV/8B Harriers. With the vibrations of my jet, we have an ungodly amount of fasteners to secure panels, etc. Currently, I am an instructor here in Pensacola teaching boot Marines and Sailors the fundamentals of my profession. One of these tasks is the proper utilization of common hand tools. I have trained to date about 4,840 students (+/- few).

    That is my quick resume, so on to your problem:

    The bolt head is snapped, leaving the shank with the threads:

    First off, you may consider using a penetrant. Comes in a spray can like WD-40. May have in issue with being seized. But use carefully, don't go overboard. Just let it seep in around the hole so it slips in between the threads. The other problem (among others) could be that it was cross-threaded and someone just kept going with it. (ALWAYS HAND THREAD EVERY FASTENER/BOLT/SCREW BEFORE APPLYING TOOLS).

    So, now what?

    Well, as was mentioned before, you will need to drill a hole down the EXACT CENTER of the bolt. If you get off center, you end up drill into your the threads of the material you are trying to extract the bolt from. But don't sweat it. This is easy if you take your time- no need to rush. Let me give you some tips:

    I teach my aspiring Airframers what I call the "bipod-support method". Just like in shooting a rifle, a bipod helps increase control and accuracy- the same goes when using a bipod in drilling. (Take a look at the quick pics I attached to illustrate.)

    This is kind of hard to explain here, but I'll try my best. Keep in mind I am left-handed- I trigger with my left hand, so I use my right hand to create the bipod. You take your index finger and your thumb and make that cliched "loser" L. This forms the bipod. Then, palm the drill body using your bipod to control/support the drill. Always try to use those two point of contact, but circumstances will dictate. (See the pics for reference- I drew a line on the center pic to represent the surface you are drilling on.

    Now, for drill out fasteners, whether rivets, bolts, or screws. Drill in bursts (about 3-5 second)- don't "machine gun" it. That tempers and ruins your bits.

    Set your drill in the center of the shank and give it a short burst with the drill. Then CHECK the shank to ensure you are in the center. We will do this thru out the entire process (drill, check, drill, check) so that we make sure we stay centered. If the bit "walked" ot of center- compensate/ make your corrections and get it centered again.

    At this point, you now have a hole in the conter of the shank.
    you will need an "easy-out" extractor. This is a simple tool that you insert into the hole we just made. It is reverse-threaded so that when you twist the extractor, its threads grip the hole in the shank. Thus, the more you turn, the tighter it grabs. However, you must be carfeful, b/c you can easily snap the easy out off inside the shank. Then, we got more fun
    Here's a quick link on first site I found when googled:

    http://www.brokentap.com/easy-outs.html

    The way I always used them was: after drilling, I would light hammer the easy out into the hole. Once it was throughly secure, I attach vise-grips to the extractor (tight as I could get 'em- no slippy slippy). This gives you leverage so you can turn the easy out and with it, the shank. I would lighly (or sometimes, not so lightly) tap the end of the easy out with a hammer (with vise-grips attached) AS I WAS TURNING, until the shank broke loose enough that I could spin it out easily.

    Well, sorry so long, and I'm sure I left alot out, but I hope I could provide a little help.
    Last edited by weberje; 02-18-2008 at 07:20 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Street Lethal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by via sin dios
    the damn head of the bolt broke off. Never seen it happen but its a big problem cause now the rest of the bolt is in there and wont come off...
    If only the head of the bolt broke off, you should be able to grab the stem of the bolt with a vice (after spraying the stem w/some WD40), use a tire iron (or something similar to grab onto the vice, for leverage), and turn the bolt out. However, if the remaining stem can't be grabbed, do not attempt to get the rest of the bolt out if you never did it before. Have a machine shop do the job, they will charge very little if the head is already off of the engine (getting the car back and forth, to and from the shop, becomes the only real hard part though). Good luck....

  10. #10
    weberje
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    Good point. I guess I thought he'd already tried to grip it out and was on extracting.

  11. #11
    weberje
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    Honetsly, though, if I can have an 18 year old (whose never wrenched in his life) do this on multi-million dollar aircraft with tools you can find at autozone...Is really not that hard.
    My 0.02

  12. #12
    www.eautocad.com
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    omfg you took on a cam install for your first "mechanic experience"

    Rambo of the mechanics


    My first experience was changing the oil... When I was 5

    I still wouldn't do a cam and I've been working on cars since.

    Major kudos on testicular fortitude
    Last edited by eautocad; 11-10-2007 at 09:56 AM.

  13. #13
    Impounded
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    CAm installs arent that hard if you follow instructions and do research, my first real mechanic attempt other than oil changes and brake pad changes, was swaping and auto tranny in a 89 240sx for a 5 speed. That car worked great until the day it was sold. Research and common sense are the best tools to doin it yourself.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by eautocad View Post
    omfg you took on a cam install for your first "mechanic experience"

    Rambo of the mechanics


    My first experience was changing the oil... When I was 5

    I still wouldn't do a cam and I've been working on cars since.

    Major kudos on testicular fortitude
    not my first. i worked on cars before. this is the first time i tried this alone, i know how to take the engine apart and put it back together, the bolt just broke for some odd reason. i got it out now though. all i have to do is put all the external engine parts on and im done

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by weberje View Post
    I am an Airframes (hydraulics and structures) mechanic on AV/8B Harriers. With the vibrations of my jet, we have an ungodly amount of fasteners to secure panels, etc. Currently, I am an instructor here in Pensacola teaching boot Marines and Sailors the fundamentals of my profession. One of these tasks is the proper utilization of common hand tools. I have trained to date about 4,840 students (+/- few).

    That is my quick resume, so on to your problem:

    The bolt head is snapped, leaving the shank with the threads:

    First off, you may consider using a penetrant. Comes in a spray can like WD-40. May have in issue with being seized. But use carefully, don't go overboard. Just let it seep in around the hole so it slips in between the threads. The other problem (among others) could be that it was cross-threaded and someone just kept going with it. (ALWAYS HAND THREAD EVERY FASTENER/BOLT/SCREW BEFORE APPLYING TOOLS).

    So, now what?

    Well, as was mentioned before, you will need to drill a hole down the EXACT CENTER of the bolt. If you get off center, you end up drill into your the threads of the material you are trying to extract the bolt from. But don't sweat it. This is easy if you take your time- no need to rush. Let me give you some tips:

    I teach my aspiring Airframers what I call the "bipod-support method". Just like in shooting a rifle, a bipod helps increase control and accuracy- the same goes when using a bipod in drilling. (Take a look at the quick pics I attached to illustrate.)

    This is kind of hard to explain here, but I'll try my best. Keep in mind I am left-handed- I trigger with my left hand, so I use my right hand to create the bipod. You take your index finger and your thumb and make that cliched "loser" L. This forms the bipod. Then, palm the drill body using your bipod to control/support the drill. Always try to use those two point of contact, but circumstances will dictate. (See the pics for reference- I drew a line on the center pic to represent the surface you are drilling on.

    Now, for drill out fasteners, whether rivets, bolts, or screws. Drill in bursts (about 3-5 second)- don't "machine gun" it. That tempers and ruins your bits.

    Set your drill in the center of the shank and give it a short burst with the drill. Then CHECK the shank to ensure you are in the center. We will do this thru out the entire process (drill, check, drill, check) so that we make sure we stay centered. If the bit "walked" ot of center- compensate/ make your corrections and get it centered again.

    At this point, you now have a hole in the conter of the shank.
    you will need an "easy-out" extractor. This is a simple tool that you insert into the hole we just made. It is reverse-threaded so that when you twist the extractor, its threads grip the hole in the shank. Thus, the more you turn, the tighter it grabs. However, you must be carfeful, b/c you can easily snap the easy out off inside the shank. Then, we got more fun
    Here's a quick link on first site I found when googled:

    http://www.brokentap.com/easy-outs.html

    The way I always used them was: after drilling, I would light hammer the easy out into the hole. Once it was throughly secure, I attach vise-grips to the extractor (tight as I could get 'em- no slippy slippy). This gives you leverage so you can turn the easy out and with it, the shank. I would lighly (or sometimes, not so lightly) tap the end of the easy out with a hammer (with vise-grips attached) AS I WAS TURNING, until the shank broke loose enough that I could spin it out easily.

    Well, sorry so long, and I'm sure I left alot out, but I hope I could provide a little help.

    it did help, much appreciated

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