best heads for the money?

**bluefields88** · 08-01-2007, 09:30 PM

well, since I found out that they don't make L98 heads for LS1s (DAMNITT), I'm looking for the best heads for the money. Patriots seem like a good deal at $1300, but are there any better heads for that kind of money? Are AFR heads worth the $2400?

**mistermike** · 08-02-2007, 04:01 AM

I have AFR 225's in a blown application, purchased mainly for the 3/4 inch deck and best exhaust flow. Patriots or as-cast Darts work extremely well. I like the Darts a little better.

**ICRAZY6** · 08-02-2007, 04:43 AM

Patriots are great, low price and great performance. I found a new pair that a guy was selling because he decide to go with a different set up. Got them really cheap. Work great. I would say if you look hard enough that you'll find a good used pair for 1/2 what you would pay for new.

**Marc 85Z28** · 08-03-2007, 11:19 AM

Stay away from the Patriot stuff - I won't even go into why

The PRC line from Texas Speed and the Livernois offerings are by far the best bang for the buck. They flow as advertised and have very little quality control issues, unlike some other companies...

**vettenuts** · 08-06-2007, 04:44 PM

If you are on a budget, the Darts are good heads. Patriot seems to have an excellent reputation as well but I have no personal experience with them. I do know Gunnar seems to be a stand up guy and takes a lot of interest in his products. I am getting ready to upgrade from the Darts I have installed to the AFR's so I guess my vote would be obvious. Look them all over, look at the installed parts and quality of installed parts and buy to your budget but you can't go wrong with the AFR's.

**vaticano** · 08-06-2007, 06:38 PM

i like the gm performance parts cnc'd ls6 heads. they raise compression to 11.2 and have good low and mid lift flow they are about 990 each @ scoggin dickey http://www.sdparts.com/product/88958...ccChamber.aspx

**mistermike** · 08-06-2007, 11:45 PM

Patriot and Dart are both good. Patriot had some quality issues over three years ago that have been more than resolved, but internet gossip dies hard.

**Sarge** · 08-07-2007, 04:56 AM

Patriot is top shelf. Great heads/company and support.

**Madcity T/A** · 08-07-2007, 05:55 AM

hsa anyone done the PRC?

**SSwt00SS** · 08-07-2007, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

Stay away from the Patriot stuff - I won't even go into why

The PRC line from Texas Speed and the Livernois offerings are by far the best bang for the buck. They flow as advertised and have very little quality control issues, unlike some other companies...

so you will come in here guns blazing about how bad Patriots must be, and then chicken shit out about saying why. pretty cool. nice move hoss...

i find that interesting, im runnning Patriots and for the price, they are great heads. i gained 36rwhp/24rwtq with those heads. im sorry but i cant justify another $1000k+ for only 5-7 more rwhp...

**WEZONIT** · 08-07-2007, 09:53 AM

Ive heard a lot of bad things about the LS1 Dart heads on other Camaro forums. To the point that a lot of company's stoped carrying them. PRC is the way to go from what I hear. I have also heard that Patriots don't flow as good as what they advertise, while PRC is very close.

**PFM** · 08-07-2007, 11:18 AM

I've been running the LS6 PRCs from TSP. I picked up 50 RWHP over my stock 98 heads when I was running a TV2 with the Stage 1s on the dyno. However TSP has a new head built of Edelbrocks casting called the Terminator and it is suppose to be the heat!

**Marc 85Z28** · 08-07-2007, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

so you will come in here guns blazing about how bad Patriots must be, and then chicken shit out about saying why. pretty cool. nice move hoss...

Fine. I figure they might be a sponsor. I've slammed them elsewhere, and got slapped on the wrist for it - I don't care here.

Speaking from personal experience from a little over 2 years ago:

The heads are (were) crap. The ports were huge, and the advertised flow numbers weren't stellar. Even less stellar were the actual independent flowbench numbers, that came in some cases up to 10% less than advertised flow - 10 damn percent!!! Flow varied port to port by as much as 15-20cfm. This was 3 different sets of heads! This same flowbench shows both AFR and PRC to be at or slightly above advertised. Finally the few cars that test muled the Patriot stuff all ran like crap for the H/C setup they ran, and have since moved on to other heads. One personal friend and coworker swapped on a set of out of the box AFR 205, with a larger chamber mind you, and picked up 27 peak rwhp with no other changes. Again, with no other changes in similar weather the car ran 4mph faster. Maybe things have changed... but I wouldn't know, and probably never will. First impressions are a bitch!

Additionally, I heard of several quality control problems (reliable sources) other than flow issues, but never say anything firsthand.

How bout that, hoss?

**SSwt00SS** · 08-07-2007, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

Fine. I figure they might be a sponsor. I've slammed them elsewhere, and got slapped on the wrist for it - I don't care here.

Speaking from personal experience from a little over 2 years ago:

The heads are (were) crap. The ports were huge, and the advertised flow numbers weren't stellar. Even less stellar were the actual independent flowbench numbers, that came in some cases up to 10% less than advertised flow - 10 damn percent!!! Flow varied port to port by as much as 15-20cfm. This was 3 different sets of heads! This same flowbench shows both AFR and PRC to be at or slightly above advertised. Finally the few cars that test muled the Patriot stuff all ran like crap for the H/C setup they ran, and have since moved on to other heads. One personal friend and coworker swapped on a set of out of the box AFR 205, with a larger chamber mind you, and picked up 27 peak rwhp with no other changes. Again, with no other changes in similar weather the car ran 4mph faster. Maybe things have changed... but I wouldn't know, and probably never will. First impressions are a bitch!

Additionally, I heard of several quality control problems (reliable sources) other than flow issues, but never say anything firsthand.

How bout that, hoss?

thank you for explaining where it is you came from with your experience(s) with Patriot heads.

Since I have no clue how long ago your ordeal took place, all I can go off of is the last 8 months I've had the heads on my car. I bought the Ls6 "Style" heads 2.02int/1.57"ext, 59cc chambers, 6.0L heads. I had them flow tested and the numbers were less than 2% off from what they advertised on their site. my port to port flow was also nothing close to the variances that you experienced. I have had no issues with these heads period. Couple these heads w/my ported FAST 90/90, Comp Cam 224, LT's/ORY, and other supporting mods, I'm putting down 444rwhp...

Im pretty sure im not the only one out there whos had good results running patriot heads, just like chances are you are not the only person who's had a negative experience with Patriot was well. to each there own...

**Marc 85Z28** · 08-07-2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

Im pretty sure im not the only one out there whos had good results running patriot heads, just like chances are you are not the only person who's had a negative experience with Patriot was well. to each there own...

You seem to be making good power. Any track times?

Maybe things have changed recently, but I still see disappointing track times from Patriot headed cars at the track (people I don't know) and from this and other forums.

**SSwt00SS** · 08-07-2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

You seem to be making good power. Any track times?

Maybe things have changed recently, but I still see disappointing track times from Patriot headed cars at the track (people I don't know) and from this and other forums.

good track times, no. good 60' times, no. great traps speeds, yes...

i ran a best of 12.9 @ 113mph on a 90°+ day w/a track temp of 130°+ at KCIR back in July. this was pre-FAST 90/90 that I just had installed this past Friday and then my car retuned. i plan to hit Ennis up this Friday and see. I still have my stock 10-bolt and 3:42 gears (M6). the numbers i was putting down when i made those passes were 409/386 respectively. basically i need gears and practice...

here's my thread...
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56224

**schrysler** · 08-08-2007, 10:43 AM

What about having the stock heads cnc ported?

**Madcity T/A** · 08-08-2007, 11:27 AM

noob question I plan on doing a FAST ported 90/90 and H/C do I need a new MAF or is the stock good. ive herd alot of problems start when you change the MAF.

**Mr. Luos** · 08-08-2007, 11:31 AM

Patriot Stage III LS6 style here.

Car runs strong.

And Gunnar went beyond what he needed to while helping me with them.

You wouldn't want the stage III's on a stock bore LS1 though. Go with Stage II's.

**SSwt00SS** · 08-08-2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Madcity T/A

noob question I plan on doing a FAST ported 90/90 and H/C do I need a new MAF or is the stock good. ive herd alot of problems start when you change the MAF.

stock MAF is fine...