another cam question, to much research

**1991ls13** · 03-22-2010, 07:31 PM

hello, this is my first post, ive been on ls1tech and others for some time now, figured why not, another one wont hurt haha.

i was looking into the ms3, and looked on youtube and there are a few that sound very nice, almost stock, then others that sound like popcorn lol
i`ve searched for countless hours, and still dont know how big i can go cause i always see big cam sound nice but then some dont, usually do to the LSA but still. from my research it seems as my dd, ((although only drive about 3 miles a day)), i can go 236-242 and .615 .620 with a 114 lsa, since the ms3 is in that ball park..... seems like the ms3 can hold good power up top cause im looking for something that kicks in mid range but then halls A$$ up top around 3.5k to redline.

^^i copied ans pasted ths from another forum to see what you guys think.
since the ms3 seems like it can be tuned where it doesnt sound so lopy, ill be either getting this cam, another one like it, or a custom grind cam that is also similar.

if i went custom these would be around the specs of what im looking at.

234-242 .615 .620 with a 114 lsa, remember this is if i went custom, ms3 is always in the back of my mind, also considering others if proven hp numbers etc.

will be getting the stage one or 2.5 ls6 ported heads as well.

also if someone can help me with excalty what the specs mean in the cam....
does the duration (232/236) means where you make the power in your rpms? or is it the lift (.595.612). why does some work, and some not so much.
example. why do some people want a 230/232 or some 232/242, or the lift .595.595 and or .636. 598.(basically why are some super close in numbers and some not)

sorry for asking somuch and tech questions, i just hope someone can help. i`ve read the stickys but still didnt get Everything i needed.

thanks for you time

**mark21742** · 03-23-2010, 12:11 PM

1st off welcome to the site!

I personally ran a 238/242 .595/.595 112lsa in my ls1....now I'm still running this same cam in my 408 stroker.
It is a pretty big cam for the stock 346ci and really comes on the power above 3,500 rpms. I loved it, but t was definately bitchy when cold and around town (the extra 60 cubes really mellowed it down). I had my heads milled .040" to bump the compression up and all the specs checked out, but when I pulled the motor down for the swap I had marks on all the pistons from a few over revs ( I got lucky) more than likely you will want valve reliefs cut in the pistons for an extra safety margin.

When it comes to the different cam specs, there are so many variables that come into play different "driving habits" and uses for the vehicals that the cams are going in....that is why there are hundreds of cam grinds out there.
Examples = 238/242 .595/.595 112 lsa

1st number, 238 is the duration in crankshaft degrees that the intake valve is opened.
2nd number, 242 is the duration in crankshaft degrees that the exhaust is opened
3rd number, .595 is how far the intake valve opens of the seat
4th number, .595 is how far the exhaust valve opens off the seat
5th number, 112 is the degrees from the center of the intake lobe to the center of the exhaust lobe called lobe separation angle (lsa)

Its not one part of the cam that determines the power output, but the whole set together, but usually the larger duration numbers mean the power will be made higher in the rpms than a cam with a smaller duration.
A smaller lsa number will give you a larger overlap and more "chop" at and around idle.

As a rule of thumb I tell people to stay at or under .600" of lift on a daily driver so your valvesprings will last longer...I know I don't want to change valvesprings every 10,000 miles if I don't have to.

I hope I helped alittle, sometimes I tend to babble lol

**1991ls13** · 03-23-2010, 03:16 PM

thanks mark,
your babbling is great advise, ill probably get a really good spring, like a double spring or something.
i`ve finally got an idea of a custom cam if not the ms3 or something similar

235/240 .612/.595 114... in that ball park area,maybe give or take a number on it all but thanks again

**mark21742** · 03-23-2010, 05:03 PM

Is the motor going in your 240? I've been seeing more and more people doing that swap. Are you running an M6 or a4?

**c5z28** · 03-23-2010, 05:31 PM

You doing the 1/4 mile?
I have some ported/milled 5.3's

**1991ls13** · 03-23-2010, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by mark21742

Is the motor going in your 240? I've been seeing more and more people doing that swap. Are you running an M6 or a4?

been had it done lol here ill copy past a couple pics and clips for ya

M6

c5z28....na, its cool, thanks

[/

Well, after dealing with a terrible exhaust for sometime now, i decided to do it once more. This is the two differences between the two set ups. My new set up seems a little more quit at idle but really opens up when i step on it, which is perfect. Sleeper!!!
Enjoy

This is the old set up, details: off longtubes, 3" crazy bent into one out of two stock cats, then 3" crazy bent again into a magnaflow i inlet 3" to two 2.5" outlet.

for some reason this was a little louder, guessing the 3" but it had a cat....

very nice a** miss..haha

ew!!

a bit raspy but still sounded ok, mainly wanted to get some extra hp!!

now for the new set up, i went true duals. from the longtubes, 2.5" resinators that inside are actually 2.75", 2.5" piping into a Xpipe magnaflow muffler :twisted: 2.5" straight out the back into just tips.
i can def feel the extra 10-15 hp, it seems just to breath so much more clear and not bog at all.there are no restrictions whats so ever, stright threw. AND YES!!, i know my under carragie is ugly and dirty

ill be getting to that soon. haha

yum.

not a very good pic but you can see the muffler has an xpipe in it.

the welds are pretty good too!

and the video

thanks for looking ahhaaha, be hitting up the track soon, let you guys know my time, with hopefully videos.

**mark21742** · 03-24-2010, 05:56 AM

Looks good! Bet your car weighs a 1,000 pounds less than mine too lol

**1991ls13** · 03-24-2010, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by mark21742

Looks good! Bet your car weighs a 1,000 pounds less than mine too lol

i wish lol but almost

**c5z28** · 03-24-2010, 05:45 PM

Video links don't work

**1991ls13** · 03-24-2010, 07:20 PM

weird, ill try and fix them later.....
back to subject.....what cam

i pretty much hace the idea of about what i want, if anyone wants to post up what cam they have and how it performs on video( idle driving) clips that would be great

cam specs

most likely not going smaller the 230/232 .585 or bigger then 240/ .642 and both have to have a 114lsa cause im trying not to have it so choppy.

**1991ls13** · 03-28-2010, 05:07 PM

anyone have the TSP V.3?
how is it, ddable? etc

**marksls1ta** · 03-29-2010, 07:59 PM

we are putting a V2 in a GTO tomorrow. I will let you know how it does on the street driving once its done.

Thanks,
Mark

**1991ls13** · 03-30-2010, 08:51 AM

^^ thanks, but i know for sure the v2 is a pretty good DD, 232/234 .595. 595 isnt really what im looking for anyways, a bit small, but please, video clip and info on thats cool too.

another quick question, what exactly is lift. i know its been answered up top but not what the benefit factor is. for example, people go with a biiger dur causwe it usually means more power, but what would be the benefactor of going say:
.612 /.609 than .585 /.598??
thanks

ps
although you suggest staying under .600 lift, im going with tsp ls6 2.5 so it comes with double springs that are rated at .650....i`ve seen erally good dyno graphs with a pretty big lift(tsunomi) example .643/.609, thats why if i go custom, im thinkin on something like .612/.609

**1991ls13** · 03-31-2010, 08:16 AM

well dam!!!! Texas speed told me if i wanted the stage 2.5 ls6 heads, my two options are the tsunomi or V3, those the the biggest i can go, i wanted to do a custom grind^^as you all know. i really wanted my custom grind 236/240, .615/.609 114lsa or even a smaller being my second choice 232/236, .595/.602. 114lsa. but even that was too big. they told me something how it was made made it too big cause the tsunomi is biiger then both...ugh, no im going to take even longer to find out which cam! Dam it!!

**1991ls13** · 03-31-2010, 06:56 PM

im going with either the ls6 stage 1 or 2 depending on what cam. what are good cams for the ls6 ported heads. i have the money to get them but the tsunomi is way too big of a lift and the v3 doesnt have a big enough duration... but a custom grind cam thats smaller then the tsunomi wont work!! why! please help, im on this thing so much my eyes are bleeding lol.
whats a good ls6 cam. i thought i finally had it down to what i wanted.
i even thought about going with the 233/239 cam that tsp has but still idk, not exactly what i want..

**squirlnutz** · 04-01-2010, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by marksls1ta

we are putting a V2 in a GTO tomorrow. I will let you know how it does on the street driving once its done.

Thanks,
Mark

Originally Posted by 1991ls13

well dam!!!! Texas speed told me if i wanted the stage 2.5 ls6 heads, my two options are the tsunomi or V3, those the the biggest i can go, i wanted to do a custom grind^^as you all know. i really wanted my custom grind 236/240, .615/.609 114lsa or even a smaller being my second choice 232/236, .595/.602. 114lsa. but even that was too big. they told me something how it was made made it too big cause the tsunomi is biiger then both...ugh, no im going to take even longer to find out which cam! Dam it!!

236/242 with 615/615@ 111lsa

goes 11.6xs in stock gto.
Raptor Cam

**1991ls13** · 04-01-2010, 04:57 PM

^^ 242 is too big. they said the ms3 is too big and i`d have to fly cut the pistons, and the ms3 is a 242.... thanks though

**garygnu65** · 04-01-2010, 05:32 PM

another thing that effect PTV clearance is LSA and the ICL.contact Predator-Z or PAT-G they will help you.a trick flow head will give you more PTV,it is a 13.5 valve angle head.

**1991ls13** · 04-02-2010, 04:51 PM

^ i know about the trick flow heads, but im going with the ls6 stage 2 heads for sure and what to know how big i can go with a 113-114 lsa cause i want a the smoothest idle i can get with a mild cam/semi big cam.
ICL? i see this in the custom make a cam site but not sure how it effects the cam, sound?power?