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74,000 miles 2001 z28, stick, 1 owner

This is a discussion on 74,000 miles 2001 z28, stick, 1 owner within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Y2KArcticSS Can you visibly see a leak from the oil pan. If not, IMO you are more ...

  1. #21
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KArcticSS View Post
    Can you visibly see a leak from the oil pan. If not, IMO you are more than likely...

    a.) getting fluid collecting at the bottom from a leak somewhere else, and maybe not even oil [power steering fluid in my case]

    b.) someone did a messy oil change, and the wind spread all the old oil about the oil pan.

    c.) gonna have to clean it and observe more closely, as well as oil levels.
    its engine oil ill try to post pics

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    aint starting a ford versus chevy thing here fact is i have used 1 qt of oil was every 800 miles now its about 1qt every 400 miles leaked outta valve cover gaskets tightened em in 1/2 hour no more leaks there in the 5.0 since 107,000 miles
    both got positives and negatives well with 240,000 miles on the 5.0 now engine never had heads opened still runs like a bat outta hell all stock.still daily driver was till recent ly purchased this z
    to me beuatiful car the z hard to work ,on compared to the 5.0
    z great handling, give something get something, oh 5.0 hard to say where oil is cause not much on ground always passed smog still moves anyways,
    the leak on the z doesnt seem as bad as i first thought.


    I'm willing to bet that you are burning oil through the intake. When's the last time you looked at your pcv or replaced it?


    Look at this thread. This is an example of how much oil gets into the intake.

    This is also after a LS6 VCT and catch can (CC) mod. The oil in the cup is how much my CC has caught in a 6 week period.
    http://ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154965

  3. #23
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    Red face

    How did you post these pictures on this post????????


    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Not saying this post will fix your problems but it is to answer your questions about the OPSU and also give other areas that could be what your having problems with.

    The OPSU is the tall plastic piece that is sticking up with the green cap.

    Click for full size

    These can get brittle and break over time. Also when you are messing with the intake most first timers break it because they don't know it's there. These can leak quite a bit of oil. Signs of this are oil coming down the backside of the engine over the bell housing. It is commonly mistaken for a rear main seal leak.



    Another area that can cause oil/vacuum leaks is the PCV. IMHO GM screwed the pooch (<us) by using this is a POS PCV system. And on top of it over price ($85-$140 depending on where you get it) for when you need to replace it. This runs from the rear of the drivers side valve cover behind the intake where it splits, one tube goes to the passenger valve cover the other comes along the passenger side of the intake into the PCV valve then into your intake. In the pics below you can see where it cracks and leaks.

    Click for full size

    Click for full size

    Click for full size

    Click for full size



    or you can do this

    LS6 VCT (Valley Cover tray mod) with a catch can. Some like it some don't. This is not a performance mod buy it does help get the oil out of the intake. It deletes the PCV tubing and puts the PCV under the VCT and moves the outlet port to the front of the engine underneath the TB. This mod cost about $58-$75 for the VCT. The catch can goes for $50-$220 depending on what you want.

    Click for full size

    catch can
    Click for full size

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    Did you find the leak point yet?

    Its a 6-speed, its not leaking out of the rear main is it?

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I've had my share of rear main leaks in these. My 02 went through 3 rear mains. The original, then replaced by GM, and the 3rd replaced by me,,,and even that one started seeping after a while. The rotation of the crank tends to throw the oil over towards the starter. It kept the starter nose wet as well as the small plastic cover that surrounds it.

    This same car also had a valve cover leak on one side, had to replace that gasket. I tried various crank case venting tricks thinking the pressure was high. I was able to slow down the rear main leak but could never completely stop it.

    Now my 2000 camaro is completely bone dry,,,I mean dusty dry. It also has more miles on it too. Guess it's just a crap shoot. I've also heard of others leaking while some just don't leak a drop.

  7. #27
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    Dont ya feel the aluminum ls-1 is prone to oil seepage cause the expansion of aluminum over cast iron?
    Nope.

    The block, oil pan, heads, timing cover, and rear main plate are all aluminum. Meaning they expand at the same rate as temperature changes. Therefore there is little chance of a leak developing due to differences in expansion rates between components.

    You have to remember that by nature an internal combustion engine is very difficult to seal. You have to keep oil in, while letting crankcase vapors out, prevent oil from exiting crank (and cam on OHC engine) flanges while still allowing adequate clearance for the crank (or cams) to rotate, keep coolant in its designated passages, seal heads to the block so that coolant, oil, and combustion chambers are isolated, and allow all this to work at any given temperature in any given environment.

    Back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's engines leaked like sieves. They used multi-piece oil pan seals, with cork as the main gasket, rubber ends, and sometimes a "rope" seal for a crank seal. They would wick oil out the same way a person sweats, it was normal to see built up residue of oil all over the engine, even when new. Same with the crappy stamped valve cover gaskets, stamped timing covers, paper intake gaskets, and carbboard head gaskets. Even a freshly rebuilt engine could leak from any given spot without warning, the gaskets and sealing surfaces were that crappy. Look at the way a small block Chevy aluminum intake mates to a pair of cast iron heads and the cast iron block valley, its extremely poor.

    The LS series is one of the best sealed engines produced, bar none. All engine components are cast instead of stamped, gaskets are MLS(multi-layered steel) or aluminum with neoprene inserts, no coolant runs through the intake, and the oil pan uses a factory riveted aluminum one-piece gasket. All mating surfaces are square as well, which reduces the tendancy for leaks. You'll notice this practice on almost all new American designed engines (Ford Modular & 5.0, Chrysler Hemi, Ecotec, Pentastar, Ecoboost, ect) because its much better for sealing.

    If you have a leaking gasket, its probably due to old age, and not likely due to anything being "warped" or expanding/contracting. Replace the gasket, clean it up, and go from there.

  8. #28
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Nope.

    The block, oil pan, heads, timing cover, and rear main plate are all aluminum. Meaning they expand at the same rate as temperature changes. Therefore there is little chance of a leak developing due to differences in expansion rates between components.

    You have to remember that by nature an internal combustion engine is very difficult to seal. You have to keep oil in, while letting crankcase vapors out, prevent oil from exiting crank (and cam on OHC engine) flanges while still allowing adequate clearance for the crank (or cams) to rotate, keep coolant in its designated passages, seal heads to the block so that coolant, oil, and combustion chambers are isolated, and allow all this to work at any given temperature in any given environment.

    Back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's engines leaked like sieves. They used multi-piece oil pan seals, with cork as the main gasket, rubber ends, and sometimes a "rope" seal for a crank seal. They would wick oil out the same way a person sweats, it was normal to see built up residue of oil all over the engine, even when new. Same with the crappy stamped valve cover gaskets, stamped timing covers, paper intake gaskets, and carbboard head gaskets. Even a freshly rebuilt engine could leak from any given spot without warning, the gaskets and sealing surfaces were that crappy. Look at the way a small block Chevy aluminum intake mates to a pair of cast iron heads and the cast iron block valley, its extremely poor.

    The LS series is one of the best sealed engines produced, bar none. All engine components are cast instead of stamped, gaskets are MLS(multi-layered steel) or aluminum with neoprene inserts, no coolant runs through the intake, and the oil pan uses a factory riveted aluminum one-piece gasket. All mating surfaces are square as well, which reduces the tendancy for leaks. You'll notice this practice on almost all new American designed engines (Ford Modular & 5.0, Chrysler Hemi, Ecotec, Pentastar, Ecoboost, ect) because its much better for sealing.

    If you have a leaking gasket, its probably due to old age, and not likely due to anything being "warped" or expanding/contracting. Replace the gasket, clean it up, and go from there.
    Very well said

  9. #29
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    took pictures posted to photobucket but wont post here on ls1

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    R&P = rack and pinon. That oil consumption is way too high


    And some "mechanics*" will tell you anything to get your money.


    * - I quoted mechanics because there are some really bad ones out there that claim to be one and really have no business handling a wrench let alone working on a car. Not all are bad or crooked. no offense meant towards the honest ppl


    Could you take a pic of underneath and your engine bay where you see the leaks? It will help a lot!!

  10. #30
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    car may have sat

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Very well said

  11. #31
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I've had my share of rear main leaks in these. My 02 went through 3 rear mains. The original, then replaced by GM, and the 3rd replaced by me,,,and even that one started seeping after a while. The rotation of the crank tends to throw the oil over towards the starter. It kept the starter nose wet as well as the small plastic cover that surrounds it.

    This same car also had a valve cover leak on one side, had to replace that gasket. I tried various crank case venting tricks thinking the pressure was high. I was able to slow down the rear main leak but could never completely stop it.

    Now my 2000 camaro is completely bone dry,,,I mean dusty dry. It also has more miles on it too. Guess it's just a crap shoot. I've also heard of others leaking while some just don't leak a drop.

  12. #32
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I've had my share of rear main leaks in these. My 02 went through 3 rear mains. The original, then replaced by GM, and the 3rd replaced by me,,,and even that one started seeping after a while. The rotation of the crank tends to throw the oil over towards the starter. It kept the starter nose wet as well as the small plastic cover that surrounds it.

    This same car also had a valve cover leak on one side, had to replace that gasket. I tried various crank case venting tricks thinking the pressure was high. I was able to slow down the rear main leak but could never completely stop it.

    Now my 2000 camaro is completely bone dry,,,I mean dusty dry. It also has more miles on it too. Guess it's just a crap shoot. I've also heard of others leaking while some just don't leak a drop.

  13. #33
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Good close up picture. I can't really tell what part of the engine that is,,,but there is something leaking for sure. It's definately wet.

    Like I said, it's just odd for me to have leaks in anything whether classic cars or these new LS engines. I've just never had an issue until I bought the 02 SS, and it just leaked from day 1.

    With proper assembly techniques, proper crank case ventilation, I don't have issues with anything, even the old rear main rope seal in my pontiac. But that 02 LS1 gave me fits. Like I said though, My wifes 00 SS camaro is so dry it's dusty. I can't explain it.

    It's just going to be one of those deals where you'll have to clean everything thoroughly, put the car on a lift, start it up and sit there and watch things. Leaks can be a pain in the butt to diagnose. Start up high and work your way down.

  14. #34
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denegrader View Post
    Click for full size
    That is on the passenger side. I see the starter on the left of the pic. Looks like the top is towards the front of the car. Op am I correct?


    This is not a oil pan leak. You have leakage coming from higher up. Oil is coming from the top of the starter and it is also running down the block high up from the oil pan.

    From what I see in this pic makes me think that its not a rear main seal leak because it would be coming through the gap of the bell housing and not from the top or sides. There is no gaps in the bell housing except on the bottom. The gap is for the fluid to drain out if the rear main leaks to that there is no build up and can interfere with the clutch/stall and two, so that the driver can know the RMS is leaking/failing.



    OP reach back behind the intake and feel for oil behind the valve covers or around the OPSU. Use a mirror and a light if you have to. Does the leak favor one side more then the other?

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    Master Tech SSDEUCE's Avatar
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    navy blue metalic
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    what oil i run 5-20 and it will burn 1 quart every 2500-3k, as far as seepage, it a domestic it's gonna happen

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    oil drops are easy to find........the source is always hard to find......the rear seal and cover can throw leaky oil out onto the starter.......or the pan can be leakin.......or a leaky front cover can make its way back to the starter.....or a combination of all the above......if you really want to find the source .....get it up in the air and steam clean the whole underside of the engine and undercarriage......start it up and wait for drops.....or drive it around SLOWLY so as not to let air throw oil back from the leak

    i do feel your pain my engine is leaking EVERYWHERE.....i will have to drop the engine and replace every gasket......seems the original gaskets just dont hold up.......to pay someone to do the gaskets is not cheap.....can you DIY?

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    and a leaky RP will throw oil to the rear.....but you will see oil all around the boots

  18. #38
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    alright lS-1 fellow geekers hear this just got back from 7 mile drive mostly freewy hot day a.c. on park it look under even 1 cooling fan was on.
    Lookin under i see not 1 drop on the cardboard. cars fast bone stock 6 speed, 1 owner.
    did not jack it but looking under not 1 drop, i put 1 qt in 100 miles ago level on stick aint changed although after 8 hours yesterday after work looked like 4 or 5 drops that spred out,
    dont know maybe it kind a sat been drivin it daily sun, mon now today, maybe rear main was drying?
    someone said if its on starter pic was under car camera pointing towards fron of car so nose of starter would be towards the rear but not in pic.
    i'll check the o.p.s.u. w/ mirror but oil presseres staedy and i believe 60 psi mostly, ill doublecheck.
    i heard last mech just changed the valve cover gaskets
    oil pan bolts have been snugged already, like i saw several drops under starter, oil filter also bottom of oil pan 3,4 drops there, front and both sides of pan look pretty dry as does timing cover. ill recheck opsu, drain plug, behind the intake below firewall if i can get back there without all the wires sheath's in the way.ill also rekack it get under check wipe take more pics
    thanx later

  19. #39
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    good ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by sjsingle1 View Post
    oil drops are easy to find........the source is always hard to find......the rear seal and cover can throw leaky oil out onto the starter.......or the pan can be leakin.......or a leaky front cover can make its way back to the starter.....or a combination of all the above......if you really want to find the source .....get it up in the air and steam clean the whole underside of the engine and undercarriage......start it up and wait for drops.....or drive it around SLOWLY so as not to let air throw oil back from the leak

    i do feel your pain my engine is leaking EVERYWHERE.....i will have to drop the engine and replace every gasket......seems the original gaskets just dont hold up.......to pay someone to do the gaskets is not cheap.....can you DIY?

  20. #40
    Member denegrader's Avatar
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    midnight blue metalic
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    So does everyone feel these LS-1's are naturaly oil burners and seepers between oil changes , How much oil is everyone goin through between oil changes?
    Isn't 5-20 little light?



    Quote Originally Posted by SSDEUCE View Post
    what oil i run 5-20 and it will burn 1 quart every 2500-3k, as far as seepage, it a domestic it's gonna happen

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