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550+ rw streetable hp out of a 383 ls1 N/A ?

This is a discussion on 550+ rw streetable hp out of a 383 ls1 N/A ? within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by xmarkx they have to lie because they can't do the kind of things to their engines with ...

  1. #21
    Veteran Blackbird WS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmarkx View Post
    they have to lie because they can't do the kind of things to their engines with stock bottoms like we can lol
    you have a point lol

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gashkerwin View Post
    Since they already won the thing this year, and know that next year they'll need to do better than this, I suspect they'd be willing to let that info go. I mean they are in the business of selling car performance, and what better way to do that than kick everyone's ass on the racetrack, and then sell the bejeezus out of the winning combination?
    Because....

    #1. Not cheap.
    #2. Turns the car into a drag only car.
    #3. Turns the car into a drag only car.
    #4. Tricks up sleeve.



    We will likely never know....which would be the reason I said I would like to know.

  3. #23
    Member Eganslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    That is a full out drag car.

    Not saying it can't be done....but that completely rules out 'streetable' in my opinion.
    650 flywheel likely doesn't equal 550RWHP running through the drivetrain to handle that power either.

    Congrats to TSP though!! Impressive for stock bottom end. I would love to know ALL of the specs on the car though. Any flycutting?? Compression? Gear?
    Hey whats up mr Lous here is my setup that I had purchased from TSP. (No flycutting,10.5:1, they were auto, prolly with 3.73s or 4.11s) I spent all my money lol and now I can't get it put in yet..... Damn!!!!lol
    Start with;K&N's high flow setup (P.s:I hate it)
    100mm TSP MAF
    102mm TB
    102mm fast intake w/ aluminum Ls2 fuel rails
    55lb. Fast injectors high/low impedance
    Stock coil packs
    227cc PRC CNC Ported Heads (2.06" intake/1.6"exh)
    Ms4 cam 111*Lsa
    CTS-V hyd. Liters
    Comp cam 7.4" pushrods chromoly
    Comp Cam trunion rocker arm
    Slp headers to TSP x-pipe/moroso spiral flows all 3"
    Ls6 high flow ported oil pump
    Double roller timing chain
    Stage 3+ spec clutch
    Stage 2 T56 trans (just rebuilt, stock gearing tho)
    Rebuilt & balanced aluminum driveshaft with 1350 yoke
    Moser 9" 4.11s (Aluminum case 40 spline Detroit Locker)
    Stock brakes
    Stock Sus. w/ jegster TA, PHB & slp SFC
    Front 275/40/17 ss wheel
    Rear 315/35/17 American Torque thrust(can't afford the front yet yeah it sucks but I can go faster lol)



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  4. #24
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    Yes 550wrhp is 402 territory, but it is also 383 @ 8000rpm territory. Fuel injection makes even the most radical race engines streetable imo. The recipe for this is big ports, big runners, 250+ duration, big headers. Most of which will need to be made custom since the ls1 does not have a history in things like circle track and stock car racing.
    Last edited by gluon; 11-05-2010 at 01:47 PM.

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I agree with the others. 550 rwhp can be done but why do it with a small motor? The smaller the cubes the more high strung it's going to be, which requires high stall converters, or very high clutch dumping, along with alot of rearend gear to exploit it (4.56 or more), and alot of other expensive stuff to go with it besides the engine build. It starts to be a "not so friendly" car to drive unless you are really hard core.

    I much rather prefer to make that power with bigger cubes, it's much more friendly on the street, doesn't require as much gear or converter to be happy, and will have a much more broad and usable torque curve.

    If you are dead set on keeping the cubes small and this is going to be a frequently driven street car then I'd go with a power adder, (procharger, turbo) setup. You'll easily surpass your HP goal that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I agree with the others. 550 rwhp can be done but why do it with a small motor? The smaller the cubes the more high strung it's going to be, which requires high stall converters, or very high clutch dumping, along with alot of rearend gear to exploit it (4.56 or more), and alot of other expensive stuff to go with it besides the engine build. It starts to be a "not so friendly" car to drive unless you are really hard core.

    I much rather prefer to make that power with bigger cubes, it's much more friendly on the street, doesn't require as much gear or converter to be happy, and will have a much more broad and usable torque curve.

    If you are dead set on keeping the cubes small and this is going to be a frequently driven street car then I'd go with a power adder, (procharger, turbo) setup. You'll easily surpass your HP goal that way.
    +1 on that... i u took all the moeny u wanna spend on heads cam and a strocker u can make more streat able hp with a biger procharger and some mods

  7. #27
    Member zmg00camaross's Avatar
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    Eganslp You may have bought a really nice setup. but probly will not run close to what the TSP car is if that is what your thinking. That car is a full on drag car 2800 lbs raceweight mite be lighter. with a bad ass trans and RPM to the moon. But hell I wish I had what you bought lol

  8. #28
    Member Eganslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmg00camaross View Post
    Eganslp You may have bought a really nice setup. but probly will not run close to what the TSP car is if that is what your thinking. That car is a full on drag car 2800 lbs raceweight mite be lighter. with a bad ass trans and RPM to the moon. But hell I wish I had what you bought lol
    Well I hope so b/c I spent like 6400 $ on that engine setup!! I mean I know my race weight wouldn't be anywhere near their's but with that head/cam it's gotta put some good #'s down right? Has anyone reached 500rwhp n/a on a 346cu" before??? Well I hope so, I'd pretty upset if I didn't hit that mark!! That was the main reason I wanted to get a head and cam package. It said those heads alone make an extra 80hp and that cam is supposed to do 60to80hp and along with slp package that's 375hp so I was kinda hoping for around 515rwhp but I guess we'll wait & see.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eganslp View Post
    Well I hope so b/c I spent like 6400 $ on that engine setup!! I mean I know my race weight wouldn't be anywhere near their's but with that head/cam it's gotta put some good #'s down right? Has anyone reached 500rwhp n/a on a 346cu" before??? Well I hope so, I'd pretty upset if I didn't hit that mark!! That was the main reason I wanted to get a head and cam package. It said those heads alone make an extra 80hp and that cam is supposed to do 60to80hp and along with slp package that's 375hp so I was kinda hoping for around 515rwhp but I guess we'll wait & see.


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    LOL horsepower math doesn't work that way an NO heads will make 80rwhp or even fwhp. You might see 480 on a 346 with a GOOD SD tune and the rest of your setup optimized unless you find a happy dyno. Yes Pat G made 500+ on a 10 bolt with worked over AFR's, custom exhaust etc.. etc.. and ran 183mph in the Texas Mile and that motor was on such the ragged edge it subsequently blew up.....

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    Member zmg00camaross's Avatar
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    Yeah they also use probly no P/S and electric water pump and a ported fast intake. I know Tony Mamo ported and 102 and it gained over the none ported. 460 to 490HP what I would think. But I hope you acheive 500 that would be awesome. If you made 480 rwhp and a properly set up car it will fly down the track for sure. dont get to caught up in number unless there from the track.

  11. #31
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    500 rwhp from a 346 naturally aspirated is a tall order. Especially from just a head and cam package without touching the bottom end.

    It would take a ton of rpm to reach that goal with such a small motor. More rpm than the stock bottom end would take for very long. No way would I want to spin snap cap powdered metal rods and cast pistons that high.

    It's like this,,,,,how much can you tolerate in a street car??

    If you like wild camshafts of 260+ @ .050 duration numbers that would make very little vacuum in a 346, and would struggle to support power brakes, if you like very high rpms and the things that come with that like a ton of rear gear, big stall converters of 4500 or higher, very finicky to tune, probably be on the edge of pump gas as it is (more than likely race gas), and lighten the car to 3,000 lbs or less,,,,then the HP goal with a small naturally aspirated engine is probably right up your alley.
    If you would rather have less camshaft, a broad torque curve that doesn't require much rear gear or much converter, less compression ratio that is more pump gas friendly, much less finicky and easy to tune, More vacuum for power brakes, then you'll want to build a larger motor for that HP goal, something in the 400-450+ cubic inch range.
    I wouldn't get all caught up in dyno numbers, Dyno's are tuning tools and nothing more.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    500 rwhp from a 346 naturally aspirated is a tall order. Especially from just a head and cam package without touching the bottom end.

    It would take a ton of rpm to reach that goal with such a small motor. More rpm than the stock bottom end would take for very long. No way would I want to spin snap cap powdered metal rods and cast pistons that high.

    It's like this,,,,,how much can you tolerate in a street car??

    If you like wild camshafts of 260+ @ .050 duration numbers that would make very little vacuum in a 346, and would struggle to support power brakes, if you like very high rpms and the things that come with that like a ton of rear gear, big stall converters of 4500 or higher, very finicky to tune, probably be on the edge of pump gas as it is (more than likely race gas), and lighten the car to 3,000 lbs or less,,,,then the HP goal with a small naturally aspirated engine is probably right up your alley.
    If you would rather have less camshaft, a broad torque curve that doesn't require much rear gear or much converter, less compression ratio that is more pump gas friendly, much less finicky and easy to tune, More vacuum for power brakes, then you'll want to build a larger motor for that HP goal, something in the 400-450+ cubic inch range.
    I wouldn't get all caught up in dyno numbers, Dyno's are tuning tools and nothing more.
    couldnt have said it any better....i was trying to explain this same thing to someone and it took me a week to make them understand hahahaha.....they werent getting how unstreetable a worked up small CI engine will be and he wanted N/A 550rwhp DD car
    Last edited by Blackbird WS6; 11-10-2010 at 06:10 PM.

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    LS7!!!!!!!!
    lmao

  14. #34
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    Yea, Clint makes 540rwhp I believe on his 427. H/C/I LS7

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    the tsp prc 227 heads with a patrick-g or eps cam ,should crack 550 rwhp.get a cam to maximize the head air flow.or talk to Tony Mamo and look at some afr 225 or bigger heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    LS7!!!!!!!!
    lmao
    better yet LS9

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmarkx View Post
    better yet LS9
    thats engine is boosted...EZ to make big streetable HP with boost

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmarkx View Post
    better yet LS9
    haha well his budget isnt that big. i believe he said $8000 to $9000
    Last edited by BashamWS6; 11-11-2010 at 07:30 AM. Reason: correction on budget

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by garygnu65 View Post
    the tsp prc 227 heads with a patrick-g or eps cam ,should crack 550 rwhp.get a cam to maximize the head air flow.or talk to Tony Mamo and look at some afr 225 or bigger heads.
    Doubt it. Tony Mamo's 383 Vette only hit 540rwhp with a set of his HEAVILY worked over AFR heads and FAST intake along with a big solid roller and an excellent exhaust setup.

    383's in the LSx world rarely make the power they should for the investment. If you want a stroker, go with a 4" bore minimum. 550 "streetable" rwhp would be a stretch for engine 50ci larger.

    As far as the TSP 346 car goes, it made around 510rwhp through a 5000+ stall torque converter. Who knows what compression, but they said it wasn't pump gas friendly. NOT a street car by anyone's standards.
    Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 11-11-2010 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    Yes 550wrhp is 402 territory, but it is also 383 @ 8000rpm territory. Fuel injection makes even the most radical race engines streetable imo. The recipe for this is big ports, big runners, 250+ duration, big headers. Most of which will need to be made custom since the ls1 does not have a history in things like circle track and stock car racing.
    ASA stock cars ran LS1s. An 8000 rpm cam will have terrible street manners it's making all it's power above 4500rpm. As far as FI making radical engines streetable that depends on your definition of streetable. If all you want from a street car is something that will make a 20mi trip to the track or car show than yes that works.

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