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427 ls2

This is a discussion on 427 ls2 within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater I'm wondering if sonic testing is required after it is sleeved due to the machining of ...

  1. #21
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater View Post
    I'm wondering if sonic testing is required after it is sleeved due to the machining of the deck. It would suck to pay to have it machined to find that the block is shit ya know!!

    Also the Darton sleeves are already set on bore and only have to hone after you install the sleeves.

    Also a big block vs small block is defined as the actual overall size of the block. The displacement has nothing to do with it since as we know with the LS engines (small blocks) that we can get big block displacements through bore/stroke combos.

    There is only one LS2 motor....no big block or short block editions.
    I fully understand this.

    The LS2 is a small block. I never said there was different versions anywhere in my post.


    Anyways....if you do that work, get it tested. Before and after.
    Although I am not aware of the cost of sonic testing.

  2. #22
    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Yea its probaly better to be safe than sorry and just get it tested.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater View Post
    Well the GTO was not marketed well and sorry but you can grab a G8 GT for $23K right now so now it did not takes it place. My car will be sought after in the future.

    Second I'm sorry if I offended people but I have a lengthy explanation of my goals and direction with a clear statement of my questions.

    The defination of a troll is someone who puts input not relevant to the thread just cause it makes them feel better. This thread has become a troll thread and yes that upsets me.

    Sleeving is not stupid cause if you wanted a LQ9 block to be bored to 4.125 then you need sleeves in it also. It is everyones opinion either to go iron or aluminum since there is no conclusive data that shows that either is better.

    I would be more proud to have a car in which it could have been designed to be thus staying with stock components.

    All I want to know is background about having a LS2 sleeved and info about others experiences with a 427 LS2.


    Actually it has been proven that sleeving a Iron block is much safer than sleeving an aluminum block.. as the iron being a really close cousin to the average sleeve material.. when the engines heats the iron block and iron sleeve expand at the same rate.. whereas aluminum expands faster and can sometimes cause a dropped sleeve.. If your wanting a hot rod vins matching car do the sleeve route.. however i actually see that as decreasing value over time.. i mean original 1st gen camaros go for alot more than a hod rod matching vins 1st gen..

    but don't get me wrong i'm saying it would be incredibly bad ass.. but the majority of car collectors don't buy a car already built to the hilt.. if they want a hot rod they usually do it to their own specifications.. i know i wouldn't buy a already built hot rod.. i would buy one to build myself. so keep that in mind.. if your even planning on selling the car for a profit.. sleeving the ls2 to a 427ci is the wrong route.. honestly if i were you.. i would put the gto in storeage and pick up something like a c5 corvette to do work to

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    Quote Originally Posted by Three46Ci View Post
    Actually it has been proven that sleeving a Iron block is much safer than sleeving an aluminum block.. as the iron being a really close cousin to the average sleeve material.. when the engines heats the iron block and iron sleeve expand at the same rate.. whereas aluminum expands faster and can sometimes cause a dropped sleeve.. If your wanting a hot rod vins matching car do the sleeve route.. however i actually see that as decreasing value over time.. i mean original 1st gen camaros go for alot more than a hod rod matching vins 1st gen..

    but don't get me wrong i'm saying it would be incredibly bad ass.. but the majority of car collectors don't buy a car already built to the hilt.. if they want a hot rod they usually do it to their own specifications.. i know i wouldn't buy a already built hot rod.. i would buy one to build myself. so keep that in mind.. if your even planning on selling the car for a profit.. sleeving the ls2 to a 427ci is the wrong route.. honestly if i were you.. i would put the gto in storeage and pick up something like a c5 corvette to do work to
    or pull the original motor, crate it up and build a different motor to drop in.....that way you still have the original stock motor WITH super low miles on it

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    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    I completely agree on the value comment regarding 'hot roddin'.

    I don't plan on selling the vehicle. Just like the idea of matching VINs and if I do sell it, which won't be for quite some years, it still will have more worth than a non-matchin one.

    I think it would be cool to go all out on the stock drivetrain just so I can say "hey, this is HOW is it shoulda been designed!" haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater View Post
    I completely agree on the value comment regarding 'hot roddin'.

    I don't plan on selling the vehicle. Just like the idea of matching VINs and if I do sell it, which won't be for quite some years, it still will have more worth than a non-matchin one.

    I think it would be cool to go all out on the stock drivetrain just so I can say "hey, this is HOW is it shoulda been designed!" haha.
    just don't throw a rod through the side of the block

    hey man I'll be home after lunch and should be there all night if you want to grab those wheels

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    or pull the original motor, crate it up and build a different motor to drop in.....that way you still have the original stock motor WITH super low miles on it
    My thoughts after the first couple posts.....

    Put a iron 402-408 with some ported L92's and a WELL matched cam and you have the best bang for the buck out there. A streetable 550rwhp is very doable.......

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    I'm new here, but I feel I have to chime in here. My dad and I have been car collectors for some years. Mostly Corvettes, but the occasional GTO (late 60's). As a collector, I can tell you one thing. If someone took a factory motor and did massive rework to it, it is no longer considered a factory engine. Numbers matching yes, all original no. I would actually pay less for a car that was modified this way. If we were looking at a numbers matching car, we would fire it up and just listen to it. Hot cams, raised compression, etc, could all be heard from exhaust tone and engine idle. We walked away from a number of cars that were internally modified. these cars are worth the same as cars with documented engine swaps.
    IMO...and yell and swear if you'd like...take the engine out, store it, drop an aftermarket engine in and enjoy the car. A Camaro just sold at Barrett Jackson for $800,000 that had a warrenty replaced engine in the car AND the original engine that was pulled in the late 60's early 70's. A "numbers matching" engine MUST be original inside and out. Good luck with whatever you decide, and post up some progress. We'd love to see it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOMbitch View Post
    A streetable 550rwhp is very doable.......
    Most 402/408 builds make 475-500RWHP.

    Rarely do they make 550.
    Only seen one hit 600 to the wheels, and it was NOT really driveable, and it was an M6 vette. Light drivetrain, HUGE cam.


    But once again, DO NOT concern yourself with dyno numbers.
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    531.1 RWHP 481.3 FT/Pounds all motor.

  10. #30
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    I'm of the same mindset, with matching numbers drivetrains. Collecting 60's and 70's muscle cars you have to be. They hold too much value to ignore.
    I also love to race mine and thats where the problem lies.

    With that said I would do what has already been suggested. Pull the original drivetrain, bag and tag it. In the end that's the best route. I've been racing my 454 chevelle for 25+ years, and my 70 formula for the last 15 years,,, but toward the late 80's and early 90's when value started to climb I had to rethink things. What if I threw a rod in the original block?? Drop a valve??
    Found it was best to build what I wanted and install it,,,,and leave the original motor in one piece. I do that with just about anything with value anymore.
    It's obvious your plans are for some racing with more cubes in mind, since you are worried about matching numbers then why take the chance.
    Start fresh and build what you want.

    I wouldn't bother sleeving an LS motor, too many issues and not cost effective when you consider all the other options out there. You also won't find much difference between a 408 build or a 427 build if you are going to limit the motor breathing abilities with 243 cathedral port heads.

    Quite honestly, one LS motor looks just like the next, and people looking at it don't care. Why not go bigger?? There are 454 crate engines offered now. Although a cast iron block, it offers many other advantages.
    We can't make up your mind for ya, but there are too many other "better" options out there to ignore.

  11. #31
    Member 6.0LiterImportEater's Avatar
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    Good points and appreciate everyones input.

    Yea I still don't know what to do. Probaly should just forget about this whole 'collectors car' mentality. The stock suspension on the 3rd Gen GTOs suckass and I will be using all aftermarket components on it so it will drive much better all around. Thats a back breaker cause I am not keeping the car with the stock suspension haha!

    I don't care about it being worth a shitload of money but would be nice that it would be worth around the same price of a new top end vehicle. Most old muscle modded are if in great condition so shouldn't worry....its not like I want to get rid of her!!

    I originally planned on building an engine seperately and then dropping it in but when Pontiac died I started wondering.

    But then the question comes to what engine to even go with?! Yea an LSX Bowtie Block is awesome but I'm looking for a powerful NA street car. Thats a bit overkill using an LSX without throwing boost at it and jumping to 1000rwhp ya know. The LQ9 only can handle a displacement of 408 without sleeving. The LS7 is there but don't know how much power you can get out of them NA. Havent done much research on the LS3 either.

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    The base engine block is fine for high horse apps. Hell, even the stock rotating assembley can work over 600 horse. You may want to look into a scrap yard, high milage donor engine. Build that up with a nice stroker kit, nice cam, and good heads. 500 horse will be no problem with the right combo. Then do the swap to keep the factory motor.
    I do agree that Pontiacs will gain value down the road. It's a dead legacy that pissed off true fans of the brand. Anything you change on the car will be worth keeping in storage to drop back in later.
    As for your goal of 427 cu in? Slap the badge on the side...who's gonna argue when you run 11's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Most 402/408 builds make 475-500RWHP.

    Rarely do they make 550.
    Only seen one hit 600 to the wheels, and it was NOT really driveable, and it was an M6 vette. Light drivetrain, HUGE cam.


    But once again, DO NOT concern yourself with dyno numbers.
    Go search WKMCD over on TECH. 535 with a baby Bret Baur speced "Justin Timberlake" cam... His L92's were ported by Richard at WCCH though now that I think about. When a decent intake comes out that can keep up with those heads they are gonna be monsters.....

    I know another guy doing a 402/L92 pupose built drag car and I would be shocked if he doesn't break 550. I will post back up when he gets some #'s.

  14. #34
    Import Ambassador nomolos1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater View Post
    I have been doing quite some research but still have some questions.

    To start things off I'll give y'all some background. My GOAT is my prized possesion. I am never getting rid of it and will be become my weekend warrior. I am looking forward to that day when I'm an old bastard and I take it out for Sunday cruises and get crazy stares haha.

    As you all know Pontiac is no more and very few new generation GTO's were even produced. I know it will be a collectors car and this methodology is in my mind. I want my car to remain as much stock as possible but also strike terror in those that even think about matching with me.

    So in that I want to match VINs thus the same motor/trans set-up that currently sits in her. Tranny is easy since I'm just going to rebuild with stronger parts and I have the IRS so good there too.

    Ok with that out of the way I am a firm believer that there is 'no replacement for displacement' and boost is just a lame excuse. So lets not mention this at all in this thread. My goal is to get around 600 rwhp.

    So I was thinking 427 cid by the use of Darton sleeves. Yes I know its going to cost a pretty penny but the VIN will match! I will keep the 243 heads and just have them CNC ported as well.

    The questions I have are as follows:

    How reliabile will this engine build be? Will it last and be just as sturdy as stock LS1/LS2?

    Can I resleeve it later on again too? I know Darton is a dry process where the entire deck must be machined. I don't want to go this route if after I beat the new sleeves up a bit that I would have to junk the motor.

    Answers? Thoughts? Opinions?
    Easy Trigger, Technology is the only substitute for Cubic Inches. Boost well levels the playing field for those with less ci, liters, and cylinders. I say this because I own an LS1 TA and a 94 Turbo Supra. Wright now, it stands that my Supra just today in 100 degree temps, on pump gas, put down 542 wrhp. I haven't played with the TA yet, but I'm very happy with my old Toyo with 297,000 miles.
    I want to achieve the same with the LS1. I think it will take more effort, than the Supra did. FYI, Boost is no lame excuse, it works WELL! My Supra will take most C6 ZO6s. I wouldn't trade it for the world, just like you and your GTO.
    In retro speck, if a car is fast, it is fast no matter what size engine is in it. The Supra gets around 20plus miles per gallon. I'd say that is one of the most impressive things about the power to econo ratio.
    Last edited by nomolos1; 07-10-2010 at 07:11 PM.

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    I'll offer my .02. If you modify the stock/numbers matching block, you ruin the authenticity of said block. If you are deadset on having a sleeved LS2 427, I suggest building a separate engine to keep what you have stock. The value of a classic is tarnished if it isn't factory stock. This includes the engine internals. I don't think the LS GTO's will ever be worth anything. Lower mileage '04's can be had for around $10k. The '05-'06 aren't a whole lot more $$$.

  16. #36
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Didn't read 90% of posts but "Matching Numbers" is kind of a thing of the past from what I've seen about LSX builds! My block is a LS6 from the factory One standard number for the LS6 stock block, which can be had by "Any" LS6 stock block. I'll go back and read the posts but OP, don't really worry about matching numbers because they don't really pertain to cars now a days compared to older cars
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  17. #37
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Read all the posts and when my motor was sitting on the engine stand.....no vin stamped anywhere on the block Just the LS6 parts number behind the head Mod that fucker the way you want but do not worry about matching numbers (unless someone can prove me wrong )

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