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TT halted ugh but yay.....

This is a discussion on TT halted ugh but yay..... within the V6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Smittro LOL yes 4T60e is for frontwheel drive cars. The 92 Z-34 is a puller car.. The ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    LOL yes 4T60e is for frontwheel drive cars. The 92 Z-34 is a puller car.. The Muncie getrag 284 5spd is a w-body specific transaxle. Only one other car came with it Fiero.. Very hard to find. The 4t60e is a very weak auto trans, that is known for diff troubles. The TDC eats them stock wheather it's 200hp or the 215 hp motor. It's mostly due to the high reving nature of the TDC, aswell as a weak design..

    My wife drove a '92 Lumina for a few years -- never had any trans problems so I did not pay attention to what was in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    My wife drove a '92 Lumina for a few years -- never had any trans problems so I did not pay attention to what was in it.
    <------The TDC only came in the Z34, and later a few euros had them. Engine is also mostly specific to the z34 from Chevy, Olds and Pontiac had them but they are all chevy motors. It's the only engine ever offered in z34. The car you wife had was either a 4 cyl, or the 3.1 60* v6 with 135 hp @ the crank. The standard Lumina is slightly different car aswell. The 92 z34 was a loaded car and nascar inspired. Sport suspention and so forth.
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-26-2009 at 06:26 AM.

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    Ps the 3.1, and the 4cyl does pretty well with the 4t60e behind it with thier much lower rev limiter. The 92 TDC red lines @ 7000 rpm. Quite simply they just eat 4t60e and the TDC was actually heavily detuned for the tranny they used. After 93-94 the 4t60e was changed to the 4t60e(heavy duty) which was a little better version but still was easily eaten by the TDC depending on how it was driven. There were only about 8400 z34's produced in 92... Also most of the older z34's still on the road are 92's and a few from 91 with less electronics than later years..
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-26-2009 at 06:30 AM.

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    i'm pretty sure that the 4t65e will bolt up to the 3.4DOHC. of course you'll have some computer work to do to it...but i've seen 500+hp cars with bullet proof 4t65e transaxles.

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    Engine was a 3.1 -- I remember having an oil leak and it turned out to be a deteriorated o-ring. Engine had a dummy shaft in the distributor hole to drive the oil pump if I remember right. The hole was a left over from the old style ignition system and it was leaking oil. The 3.1 was a good running engine - plenty of power and when you dropped the hammer it moved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MileCrash View Post
    i'm pretty sure that the 4t65e will bolt up to the 3.4DOHC. of course you'll have some computer work to do to it...but i've seen 500+hp cars with bullet proof 4t65e transaxles.
    Yeah I know that but it never came in the z34 from the factory. The fact is there are very few auto trannies that will hold the TDC. Unless you dump a shit ton of money into the tranny..Any trans that will bolt to a 60* v6 will bolt to a TDC, like I said it's a matter of weather it will hold up..

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Engine was a 3.1 -- I remember having an oil leak and it turned out to be a deteriorated o-ring. Engine had a dummy shaft in the distributor hole to drive the oil pump if I remember right. The hole was a left over from the old style ignition system and it was leaking oil. The 3.1 was a good running engine - plenty of power and when you dropped the hammer it moved.
    Nope 3.1 60*v6 was push rod engine. The TDC (Twin Dual Cam) 3.4L uses a "blank" cam to run the oil pump and a toothed pully to turn the 4 cams on top. The O'ring you're reffering to leaking is a common problem with the stock TDC. There's a new o'ring now that is made of a different type of material that has illiminated that prob. Now it's quite possible you're confusing what motor your car had. The Euro Lumina sometimes had the TDC 3.4L as the z34 did.. 3.1 is a good running engine though it lacked hp (well under 200), it had great low end torque.. My avatar shows a TDC from the front..
    Last edited by Smittro; 09-26-2009 at 06:41 PM.

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    Page one of this build thread shows my TDC without the primary intake, if you look in one of the pics you can see where the distributor block off cap is and where they will leak..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Nope 3.1 60*v6 was push rod engine. The TDC (Twin Dual Cam) 3.4L uses a "blank" cam to run the oil pump and a toothed pully to turn the 4 cams on top. The O'ring you're reffering to leaking is a common problem with the stock TDC. There's a new o'ring now that is made of a different type of material that has illiminated that prob. Now it's quite possible you're confusing what motor your car had. The Euro Lumina sometimes had the TDC 3.4L as the z34 did.. 3.1 is a good running engine though it lacked hp (well under 200), it had great low end torque..

    lol -- Yes, the 3.1 was the pushrod V-6, which is what we had. I understand the differences between that and the TDC, especially after reading the info you posted in this thread. The 3.1 had a leaking o-ring from the hole a distributor would have been installed in it. When I saw it, I just figured the engineers decided it was the easiest way to upgrade the ignition system -- plug the hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    lol -- Yes, the 3.1 was the pushrod V-6, which is what we had. I understand the differences between that and the TDC, especially after reading the info you posted in this thread. The 3.1 had a leaking o-ring from the hole a distributor would have been installed in it. When I saw it, I just figured the engineers decided it was the easiest way to upgrade the ignition system -- plug the hole.
    Haha your right there my bad. They used the black rubber o'ring. They would get hard over time and leak like crazy, because the oil is pressurized there. I mean man they would leak a shit ton of oil sometimes there. All the 60* v6's are great motors they all had their problems too. But as far as design it was a well balanced engine from bottom end to top. The 90* v6 motors are reffered to as "boat anchors" in the 60* v6 community. The 3800 90* has even been replaced with a 60* engine now that the 3800 has been discontinued..

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    The 300+ hp v6 2010 camaro is powered by a 60* 3.6l v6..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    The 300+ hp v6 2010 camaro is powered by a 60* 3.6l v6..

    That is damn impressive from a V-6. Especially considering the turbocharged 3.8 did not hit that mark without aftermarket tweaks. If I recall, they were around 245 hp, with the GNX topping out at 276 hp. There is a 471 original mile GN that sits about 2 miles from my house -- the owner had me come look at it several months ago as he was contemplating selling it.

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    Harness Prep......

    Okay! This is the factory engine harness for my 92 TDC. Since I'm using a MegaSquirtII and getting rid of most of the emissions crap we'll need to cut out the fat.

    This is what we have after carefully removing all the nearly 18 year old coverings. The parts of the harness that we'll be using are in very good shape with no connector corrosion.

    Here's the "fat" this is the emissions side of the harness and the factory connectors cut away from it. Just do it do'nt be skurd!!

    There's a myth going around that the older TDC's with tuned port injection fires 3 injectors @ a time with the assumption that a set of valves will be open when they fire.. FALSE!! ALL 6 fire @ the same time using this principal.

    As you can see, the injectors are all spliced @ the factory into these 2 wires.

    I started by cutting all of the injector leads to the same length. "OH NOES he cut the injector leads!" So what!, as long as you correctly reconnect them later and sheild them you'll be fine with no probs.

    Here's how I do it you guys may have your own way. I like my way lol.

    Starting with these rubber grommets, some heat shrink, and an eye for detail.

    Placeing the larger grommet first, then the smaller one on top, and shrink the tubbing. The purpose of this is so that when you bend the wire it does not bend @ the plug, but rather slightly higher..

    Side veiw..

    Once that has cooled some I then place another piece if tubbing over the end and over lapping the red tubbing by @ least 1/2 inch and shrink it down.

    Bending a 90*ish bend in the wires while the heat shrink tubbing is still hot then letting it cool for a more permanant bend in it.

    ......And finally using the same process on wheather proof connectors, with the exception of leaving a small flap of heat shrink tubbing to go under the rubber seal. This will bolster the seal for a super good air and water tight fit.


    Just a small update, I'll post the final product in a few days or so thanx for the interest....
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-12-2009 at 06:21 PM. Reason: Changed due to firing 3 injectors @ a time instead of 1 @ a time...

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    You do damn nice work. I am really looking forward to seeing this project when it is completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    You do damn nice work. I am really looking forward to seeing this project when it is completed.
    Thank you, and I'm getting closer, still have plenty to do but there be light @ the end of ye tunnel lol..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-12-2009 at 08:27 AM.
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    Cont...injector harness.

    I repeated process for all 6 injector leads.

    Then taking a length of shrink tubing about 10-12 inches long, and cut 2 holes into it.

    Removing some of the wire insullation and shrink tubing in prep for soldering the leads together leaving the lead length untouched.

    Before I fused the first leads I fed one of the leads I made up though the end and out one of the notches I made earlier. The soldered them together.

    Then added some heat shrink to cover the solder joints.

    Feeding them back through the 1st hole and back out of the 2nd hole.

    ....And repeating for the last hole. Then back through and out the end of the shrink tubing.

    Then shrink the whole length down and we're done with one side. Since there are only 2 injector leads on the MegaII, we'll be firing 3 injectors @ at a time rather than one @ a time. I could fire them one @ a time but that would require another module which I do'nt really need for my set up..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-12-2009 at 06:23 PM.

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    There can't be three pistons all drawing down on the intake stroke, so what happens to the injector shot? I have heard of the injectors being "ganged" together, but I never understood the reason other than to simplify the fuel system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    There can't be three pistons all drawing down on the intake stroke, so what happens to the injector shot? I have heard of the injectors being "ganged" together, but I never understood the reason other than to simplify the fuel system.
    The shot ends up just laying on the valves that are closed. The GM idea is that when they fire @ least one set (2 intake per cyl) of valves will be open. The old set up from GM fired all 6 @ once, I've just narrowed it down to 3 basicly making the old rumor a fact lol. Yeah I know it sounds strange but that just how it is in the 92 TDC lol. Later years had sequential injection and eliminated the "all @ once" injector firing. The plan for me now is to move the injectors out of their ports and fire 3 when one set of valves is open rather than letting it pool on the valves that are closed.

    With no after market intakes made guess who has to make a custom intake too wink wink..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-13-2009 at 07:36 AM.

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    The only reason I can figure why GM would fire the injectors in such a fasion is it's a simplistic way to do it. It may also serve to quench the heated valves. But if you think about it the fuel even @ idle is'nt there long. The shot is/was also fired into the opening of the intake valves on the heads too. As you can see here in this pic there is a notch in the top of each of the intake ports.This is where the injector heads fired into the ports. This = port injection.
    Click for full size
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-13-2009 at 08:01 AM.

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    Does the accumulated fuel act to richen the intake charge, or does it boil off? Would be neat to watch this on a high speed camera to see what actually happens.

    Sheet metal intake in the works?

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