View Poll Results: Does the Strut tower brace really do anything?

Voters
184. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    145 78.80%
  • no

    39 21.20%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 115

Strut Tower Brace

This is a discussion on Strut Tower Brace within the Suspension and Handling forums, part of the General Help category; Originally Posted by amon37 I would never cage a daily driver. true, that's why when it becomes in 11s I ...

  1. #61
    car enthusiast djvaly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Philly area
    Posts
    9,863
    Quote Originally Posted by amon37 View Post
    I would never cage a daily driver.
    true, that's why when it becomes in 11s I cage it and make it track/weekend car.

  2. #62
    SGT Joshua.Grooms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Age
    34
    Posts
    49

    Red
    98 Trans Am

    Im not sure if i will cage mine, not like a 12 point or anything, but maybe 6 to 8 pt. Ill stick to normal add-ons. i really considering it for my 87 TA. Can't say yet though.
    Hey, ill go for the STB, its one of the cheapest bolt ons if you think about it

  3. #63
    Consumer of kraut SiggyZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,773

    Light Pewter Metallic
    y2k 8-cylinder catfish

    One thing you will notice (as I do with mine) once you install a STB, the ride will get a bit more rough as the front end will feel more of the pavement.

  4. #64
    car enthusiast djvaly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Philly area
    Posts
    9,863
    STB is good at cornering, much less body roll and no more dashboard rattling..
    i got the 3 point brace bar.

  5. #65
    Member Fastcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jersey Boy
    Posts
    316

    Dark blue metallic
    2000 TransAm

    A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by Fastcar; 01-27-2007 at 01:14 AM. Reason: added stuff

  6. #66
    Consumer of kraut SiggyZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    4,773

    Light Pewter Metallic
    y2k 8-cylinder catfish

    Well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.

  7. #67
    Member bevenue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Age
    30
    Posts
    346

    Navy Blue Metallic
    2001 camaro SS A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.
    GREAT EXAMPLE!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    SS #2988, A4, Navy Blue Metalic, 335HP Dual Dual Exhaust, Chrome 10 spokes, Floor mats, Dash plaque, and SS Grille
    Best ET 13.08 @ 106.1, 2.00 60', with SLP lid

  8. #68
    I have a need for speed! jigger1166's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Standish,Maine
    Age
    51
    Posts
    560

    Artic White
    00 SS Vert.

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    A long long time ago in a far away land I posted an example for readers to consider about how STBs work.... Think of a styrofoam coffee cup: the bottom of the cup where you hold it is rather rigid and not as easy to squeeze and flex as the top of the cup is, where it's open and has no reinforcement (obviously the cup bottom makes the bottom rigid). Think of the engine compartment as a styrofoam cup: the K-member, trans mounts, etc. are analogous to the cup bottom and make the car bottom rigid to provide necessary support. Now put a lid (=STB) on the cup and what happens? Suddenly the cup becomes more rigid overall and less prone to flexing: the lid provides support, ties the sides of the cup together yet doesn't change the overall shape and size of the cup in any way. The change in chassis stiffness is perhaps not as noticeable as the before/after with SFCs, but when I put a STB in my car the front end stopped "dancing" when I hit a bump or pothole and the steering response improved - more linear. I could feel a difference - perhaps my car was "looser" than others but we all know about GM manufacturing tolerances, especially concerning "piston slap" as another example..... BTW I also have SFCs, LCAs, Panhard rod bar, and a driveshaft loop on my car. STBs have been around for years - on older cars they were known as "export braces". Look at stock street cars that are modified for racing or older cars manufactured for export - they all have some form of STBs. When it comes to competitive road racing if a part doesn't improve anything and simply adds weight to the car they don't put it in! Any little bit helps when it comes to stiffness, like a good stiff drink, a "lucky stiff", certain parts of the body..... I certainly don't want less stiffness. 'Nuff said.
    Very well said.
    JIGGER RACIN'
    2000 Camaro SS, vert., auto., LS6 intake manifold, SLP lid, K&N filter, SLP LoudMouth II, C5 Z06 replica 17x9.5 rims
    1/4 mile time = 13.310 sec. @ 105.22 mph, 2.051 60'

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2939958

    http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...amarolaeft.jpg

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by 2001somws6 View Post
    Im lovin it.

    I out turned a cobra in an "S" curve at 75mph. I looked behind me and he almost went into the bushes.
    dont you think that had more to do with your tires?...
    Quote Originally Posted by tuske427 View Post
    I use the 3 point brace. I like the idea of the triangulation support it (supposedly) offers.
    now ive heard that the 3pt stb's can lead to cracked windshields.. anyone expierence this?

  10. #70
    Aw shucks. bluefields88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    3,619

    Red
    2000 Camaro SS #3574 A4

    I don't know about the STB's cracking windshields, but I have had a cracked windshield before, and let me say that you want to avoid it! they don't make the windshields as good as they did stock. the first replacement I had had a huge wave in it that made your eyes cross whenver you drove, and made my friends sick just riding shotgun. the window guy came back with another, but it had a huge wave in it too, so he had to come back again. the third one is alright, but still not as good as the original. I say if anyone has gotten a cracked windshield from a 3 point, don't get one. I'd rather have a less stiff ride than have to deal with crappy windshields.

  11. #71
    Rollo Tomassee AKIRA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Outside the box
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,887
    Hmph. Ive had my winshield replaced many times via fucked hoods and violence and they all look the same.

  12. #72
    Crazy Canuck ! Eugenio_SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Montreal, CANADA
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,190

    triple-black
    2000 CamaroSS convertible

    analogy is good for strenght only... ie the same can be said about a cage in the car, yet it doesn absolutely nothing to improve handling or make the car faster in any scenario around any track. Following the analogy, putting a full-cage will improve the car handling... I saw try to prove that... the car is safer and more rigid... but handling hasn't changed.

    Let's say argumentatively that it did change something in the front rigidity affecting handling... then it would affect the f/r balance for understeer/oversteer, having the same effect as rollbars, which isn't the case.
    If that was true, the car would tend to understeer more w/ the STB vs non-STB... which isn't the case either.

    Some have tried, including myself, to make several tests around different tracks w/ vs w/out STB and times are identical... and the handling characteristics of the car don't change, nor the balance.

    And for the styrofoam cup... put it on the side... does the styrofoam roll any better w/ or w/out the added support ?
    Eugenio_SS
    almost stock triple-black 2000 SS convertible with 17x11s on all 4 w/ 315s at the track or on the street with 18x10.5s on all 4 w/ 315s: (1), (2)

  13. #73
    Member Fastcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jersey Boy
    Posts
    316

    Dark blue metallic
    2000 TransAm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar

    http://www.240edge.com/performance/tuning-bars.html

    http://e30m3performance.com/myths/St...bar_theory.htm An STB doesn't affect the F/R over/understeer balance directly like a swaybar: obviously a huge enough swaybar would make your car corner almost completely flat - at the loss of any suspension compliance! Don't hit a bump or pothole with that suspension. The STB helps keep the front suspension components in the proper relationship to each other so your steering angles don't change as much when the chassis flexes randomly. Perhaps you haven't noticed a difference in lap times with/without the STB but that doesn't invalidate the difference in the handling feel of the car that others have experienced. A much better handling car than our F-bodies, the Nissan 350Z track/competition model even has a REAR STB. I don't think that Nissan put it in just for looks, considering that it makes the rear interior space less useful. BTW, depends if you put a downwards load on the cup.
    Last edited by Fastcar; 02-10-2007 at 09:00 AM. Reason: database error

  14. #74
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Thornton, CO
    Posts
    23,785

    Red Tint Jewelcoat
    2008 Trailblazer SS

    Since they work so well....someone can buy mine.
    SLP piece.


    Cage is the last thing that will EVER go in my car. It might be quick enough to need it (at sea level), but it won't get it. I don't race it enough to bother.

  15. #75
    Junior Member Jeremiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mustang Ok.
    Age
    43
    Posts
    69

    NBM
    98 Mecham TA #4 of 14

    Unlike other cars "Fox body Mustangs for example" the F bodys unitized construction is very structurally stable and a STB is nothing more than an appearance item. I have repaired fourth gen F-bodys that have had the unitized rails buckled and the front reinforcement ripped completely off the structure from side collisions and the towers were still within spec.

    There is a structural rail called the upper long member that runs inside the top of the fender that ties the cowl plenum, the strut tower and the radiator suppt all together. This has the same affect as a STB only far better, Mustangs as well as many other cars dont have this extra bracing.

    There are also a few threads on the subject with some profesional road racers like Sam Stranos that will tell you the same thing. Sam Stranos doesnt run a STB on his multiple SCCA national championship winning 01 Camaro.

    You guys that say you noticed an improvement in response/handling by simply bolting one on your car are full of it. There good to lean on or if you like the look but a fourth gen doesnt need any structural bracing in this erea. I think a lot of you bolt one on your car and then go test it on some corners and... wow, my car handles pretty good therefore it must be the STB. In reality your car has allways handled that good, you just never payed any attention to it.

    Companys are making them because they can be built for a few dollars and you guys pay $100+ for them, I even thought about turning out my own design.

    SFC's are entirely different, there great for any car reguarless of modifications and unlike a STB will make a noticable seat of the pants improvement.

  16. #76
    Member Fastcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jersey Boy
    Posts
    316

    Dark blue metallic
    2000 TransAm

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    Unlike other cars "Fox body Mustangs for example" the F bodys unitized construction is very structurally stable and a STB is nothing more than an appearance item. I have repaired fourth gen F-bodys that have had the unitized rails buckled and the front reinforcement ripped completely off the structure from side collisions and the towers were still within spec.

    There is a structural rail called the upper long member that runs inside the top of the fender that ties the cowl plenum, the strut tower and the radiator suppt all together. This has the same affect as a STB only far better, Mustangs as well as many other cars dont have this extra bracing.

    There are also a few threads on the subject with some profesional road racers like Sam Stranos that will tell you the same thing. Sam Stranos doesnt run a STB on his multiple SCCA national championship winning 01 Camaro.

    You guys that say you noticed an improvement in response/handling by simply bolting one on your car are full of it. There good to lean on or if you like the look but a fourth gen doesnt need any structural bracing in this erea. I think a lot of you bolt one on your car and then go test it on some corners and... wow, my car handles pretty good therefore it must be the STB. In reality your car has allways handled that good, you just never payed any attention to it.

    Companys are making them because they can be built for a few dollars and you guys pay $100+ for them, I even thought about turning out my own design.

    SFC's are entirely different, there great for any car reguarless of modifications and unlike a STB will make a noticable seat of the pants improvement.
    No Junior, you're full of it. The towers can still be in spec because the car's not in motion. I noticed a big difference in the way my car handled after I installed an STB. The whole front end used to "shake" and "dance" whenever I hit a pothole or road irregularity: if I hit a pothole while turning the car would feel like it shifted slightly off track. After installing the STB my steering linearity improved and the front end stopped doing the pothole dance. If you don't feel the difference, save your money and don't put one in: we still live in a democracy. It might well be that YOU can't feel any difference in the way your car handles. You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?

  17. #77
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Stockton. Ca.
    Age
    52
    Posts
    89

    White
    98 SS

    WOW, check out that pole. 91 suckers so far. I cant remember what shop it was but they did some testing and took some measurements with and without a STB. They came to the conclusion they do nothing. From my own experience I came to the same conclusion. My car has roughly 300 autox days on it so I know how my car handles. I also run Hoosier A6 r-compound tires on some super grippy concrete, so the stress is there. If a car is going to flex it will happen under these extreme conditions. I took mine STB off and I couldnt tell a difference at all. Is that enought proof for you guys.

  18. #78
    Aw shucks. bluefields88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    3,619

    Red
    2000 Camaro SS #3574 A4

    nope.

  19. #79
    Junior Member Jeremiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mustang Ok.
    Age
    43
    Posts
    69

    NBM
    98 Mecham TA #4 of 14

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    No Junior, you're full of it. The towers can still be in spec because the car's not in motion. I noticed a big difference in the way my car handled after I installed an STB. The whole front end used to "shake" and "dance" whenever I hit a pothole or road irregularity: if I hit a pothole while turning the car would feel like it shifted slightly off track. After installing the STB my steering linearity improved and the front end stopped doing the pothole dance. If you don't feel the difference, save your money and don't put one in: we still live in a democracy. It might well be that YOU can't feel any difference in the way your car handles. You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?
    Junior.. lol, Im probably old enough to be your father and have owned more F-bodys than most on this site including several more valuable than any home you will ever own. I have also worked on, driven, restored you name it on about every model of every year F-body built. I have cut appart and rebuilt countless fourth gens. I know these cars well beyond the exterior panels you wash/wax.

    I know for a fact.... A STB will not do as you have said even under the most harsh driving conditions.

    The fourth gens have there weak ereas, the strut towers or unitized cabin forward construction is not one of them by far.

    Also, the force/impact it takes to buckle the rails from a side impact to the point everything forward of the towers has to be replaced is far more than any extreme driving conditions will replicate.
    Last edited by Jeremiah; 07-30-2007 at 07:55 PM.

  20. #80
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Thornton, CO
    Posts
    23,785

    Red Tint Jewelcoat
    2008 Trailblazer SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcar View Post
    You ever try an STB in your car or do you speak from uninformed opinion?
    I know you weren't talking to me, but I have, and felt ZERO difference.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Strut Tower Brace
    By Spikito in forum Suspension and Handling
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-24-2008, 01:43 PM
  2. bmr double strut tower brace or single brace?
    By greatwhiteZ28 in forum Suspension and Handling
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-30-2007, 12:42 PM
  3. WTB Strut tower brace
    By u69038 in forum Parts Wanted / Trade
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2006, 09:47 PM
  4. Put On My Umi Strut Tower Brace, Luv How It Looks
    By Y2KJERSEYSS in forum External Engine
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-26-2006, 07:56 AM
  5. Strut Tower Brace?
    By thelastz28 in forum External Engine
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-09-2006, 12:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •