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Slalom MPH improvements

This is a discussion on Slalom MPH improvements within the Suspension and Handling forums, part of the General Help category; This is for anyone that has actually experienced the improvements listed or people with opinions on what you would expect ...

  1. #1
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    Slalom MPH improvements

    This is for anyone that has actually experienced the improvements listed or people with opinions on what you would expect to happen.

    I know that the slalom MPH for our 01-02 WS6 cars was rated at 64.6mph. And if any of you saw the Aug, 2008 issue of Road and Track magazine, they listed the new Chevy Cobalt SS at 72.4mph. Which is disheartening to say the least.

    My question for any of you is what MPH improvement do you think I might be able to see in the slalom with the following suspension improvements: Hotchkis springs, Koni SA's, UMI 3-point subframe connectors, Sway bars, adjustable phb, and LCA's?

    Thanks again!

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    whats tires? those mods will all help out tons. if your really concerned with your slalom speed ect..i assume your into road racing and autoX...then look into sam strano's springs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    whats tires? those mods will all help out tons. if your really concerned with your slalom speed ect..i assume your into road racing and autoX...then look into sam strano's springs.
    I don't race weekly or even monthly for that matter. But I do occasionally go to the road course in Tulsa Oklahoma. I'd also like to be able to say that my car can "handle" better than a dang Cobalt. It's more of an ego thing I guess. Call me egotistical but it drives me crazy knowing that a cobalt could leave me on a road race. I already have the Hotchkis springs, Koni's and Umi sfc's. Starano's springs really but much better than the Hotchkis?

    Thanks Shady.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    I don't race weekly or even monthly for that matter. But I do occasionally go to the road course in Tulsa Oklahoma. I'd also like to be able to say that my car can "handle" better than a dang Cobalt. It's more of an ego thing I guess. Call me egotistical but it drives me crazy knowing that a cobalt could leave me on a road race. I already have the Hotchkis springs, Koni's and Umi sfc's. Starano's springs really but much better than the Hotchkis?

    Thanks Shady.
    yes it is...also i mean the new cobalt SS is no slouch..remember our cars are based off of a 10 year old layout with a solid rear axle

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    A-arm kit--front, adjustable

    http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...ID=0&ModelID=7

    Replacing the front A-arms well help correct the geometry for better handling and also allow you to set your front end alignment for better handling by allowing you to dial in some negative camber.
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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetteemt View Post
    A-arm kit--front, adjustable

    http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...ID=0&ModelID=7

    Replacing the front A-arms well help correct the geometry for better handling and also allow you to set your front end alignment for better handling by allowing you to dial in some negative camber.
    that is umi's stuff that strano sells..so just incase..you can go to umiperformance and see if the prices differ any..i dont think they do but yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    This is for anyone that has actually experienced the improvements listed or people with opinions on what you would expect to happen.

    I know that the slalom MPH for our 01-02 WS6 cars was rated at 64.6mph. And if any of you saw the Aug, 2008 issue of Road and Track magazine, they listed the new Chevy Cobalt SS at 72.4mph. Which is disheartening to say the least.

    My question for any of you is what MPH improvement do you think I might be able to see in the slalom with the following suspension improvements: Hotchkis springs, Koni SA's, UMI 3-point subframe connectors, Sway bars, adjustable phb, and LCA's?

    Thanks again!
    Best thing i ever heard was "go try what you have first, then fix it from there" NO point tossing a ton of parts on if you really might not need them. IE a 3pt SFC isn't even SCCA approved so
    that said, i'm too busy looking ahead to know my MPH while throught the slalom

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetteemt View Post
    A-arm kit--front, adjustable

    http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...ID=0&ModelID=7

    Replacing the front A-arms well help correct the geometry for better handling and also allow you to set your front end alignment for better handling by allowing you to dial in some negative camber.
    HMMM.... that's not an awful price. three questions I can think of right off the bat:

    1. How difficult / time consuming is it to do the swap?

    2. how much weight does it reduce?

    3. and what alignment specs do you run? do they effect tire wear?

    thanks

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    A few points....

    First a slalom test alone does not indicate how well a car handles. In fact if you look closely you'll often find the smaller, lighter, FWD cars killing even some Supercars in slalom testing. Slaloming is about stability, and not much is more stable than a nose-heavy, pushy FWD vehicle. And when you consider that most of the magazines test @ 100' spacing, it's not even about how nimble the car is. When we autox we generally see slaloms around 60-70' spacing and that requires a car to change direction more quickly.

    Also, let's consider the shocks on a stock F-body suck, much worse than the Cobalt and damping contributes to stability, which is why I'm always harping on good dampers being put on anything meant to handle--at all.

    How about the surface? That changes, and clearly effects the results as well.

    I'm simply pointing out some things that you should be aware of so you can make a comparsion that's more accurate than the Cobalt kicks a f-bodies ass.

    My setups need to slalom and steady state well. Autox has both slaloms and sweepers, as well as other types of transitions and differing road surfaces. Road courses have little transition, and when they do, they don't tend to be as violent or as long in duration. But like a road-race car, or even a well balanced car on the street, my stuff also has to steady state well. If the car won't bite in the nose and point, I can't get on the gas and get a run out of a corner.

    These are some of the reasons why a good autox setup also works so well on the street and track as well. I think an autox car needs to be the most well rounded suspension there is as the sport has more variation on "cornering" than drag racing (about putting power down), or road-racing (having power and good balance, as well as strong brakes). That's not to take anything from those sports, the point is to have a car that does the job at hand the best it can.

    Will my car outslalom a Cobalt SS? Depends, but I know from experience the addition of quality shocks alone increased the slalom speed of a stock F-body by about 5 mph. And shocks are the most important part of a car's transitional ability. BTW, too much rear swaybar (like the 25mm rears, or using a 21 or 22 with a too small front like a 30 or 32 kills transitional stability).

    As for control arms, etc. Happy to discuss things like that if you like, but I can't say you want or even need them until I know what the car drives like and what's already in place and how it's setup.
    Sam Strano
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    Quote Originally Posted by third_shift|studios View Post
    IE a 3pt SFC isn't even SCCA approved so
    that said, i'm too busy looking ahead to know my MPH while throught the slalom
    They are now legal in ESP for Autox.... and have always been in SM. They just aren't legal for FS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    that is umi's stuff that strano sells..so just incase..you can go to umiperformance and see if the prices differ any..i dont think they do but yeah.
    In fact I'm about $.99 less... I do sell UMI parts, and if you need them I'd be happy to sell you some. Not sure we're to that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    Starano's springs really but much better than the Hotchkis?

    They are. We give more spring rate in the front, and use the bumpstops less often and less hard. The car is a bit more planted and rolls somewhat less. The ride is different, firmer, but not harsh.

    In fact I've had two back to back comparisons from customers Hotchkis vs. Strano springs and both reported the same thing, pretty much what you see above.

    Remember I built my springs to be exactly what I wanted. No compromises, and with the advantage of not only running various rates on my own car, but also using and selling other brands (including Hothckis).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    In fact I'm about $.99 less... I do sell UMI parts, and if you need them I'd be happy to sell you some. Not sure we're to that point.
    you had me at -.99

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    I hate dealing with those odd numbers. I just prefer round numbers.

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    This is why Sam is the sponsor for the suspension thread. Not only does he sell good stuff at good prices, he also has the SCCA trophies to prove he knows a thing or two about handling and road racing.

    My alignment specs from what I can remember with out finding the print out from the shop.

    castor: +4.3
    toe: 0"
    camber:-1.0

    I went from stock to this and it greatly helped at our local SCCA events. I saw better gains on bigger tracks and not some much at smaller parking lots events.

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    SFC won't do squat for improving your mph slalomming.
    Where you'll get the best improvement is on tires, shocks, alignment.... which as mentionned by Sam will help in your transition states and te stability of the car.
    PHR + LCA, stock ones are good and lots more to improve on the car before you'll get benefits from there.... thinking about springs, shocks, swaybars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    They are. We give more spring rate in the front, and use the bumpstops less often and less hard. The car is a bit more planted and rolls somewhat less. The ride is different, firmer, but not harsh.

    In fact I've had two back to back comparisons from customers Hotchkis vs. Strano springs and both reported the same thing, pretty much what you see above.

    Remember I built my springs to be exactly what I wanted. No compromises, and with the advantage of not only running various rates on my own car, but also using and selling other brands (including Hothckis).
    Great info... I'm cooling my jets right now to pay off bills but once I get back into it. I'll give you a call. I've seen your site and have your number. Thanks for the advice!

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    i believe the magazines tested the SLP SS with the bilstien setup at 68 and change mph in the salom just to show u what a difference just shocks makes ......wish i had kept my old car and drivers/motortrends

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