Lowering

[Aguiljp99]

Thinking about lowering my car but not sure what will be the best without spending a ton?

[UMI Sales]

Stranoparts.com

Lowering springs, some good shocks and a UMI PHB to realign the rear.

ramey

[Donnie Darko]

I recently got the slp bilsteins and bmr springs . I love the ride and the stance is perfect. I would get an adj. panhard rod to center the rear. I got the bmr but i am sure the umi is just as good.

[davidz28]

Bilstein shocks, UMI panhard bar as stated earlier, Vogtland springs (if you dont want to pay for stranos) and LCA relocations. This is probably the bare minimum if you want to do it right.

[2001camaroSS]

I have bilsteins, stranos, and a UMI on car adjustable panhard bar. I absolutely love the set up and the car rides very nicely.

[BadTA00]

Bilstein shocks, UMI panhard bar as stated earlier, Vogtland springs (if you dont want to pay for stranos) and LCA relocations. This is probably the bare minimum if you want to do it right.

Vogtland production springs are too stiff both in general, and for more "normal" shocks than Koni to handle. Strano's Springs are custom made to his specs.

According to Strano's website, Eibach LT1 Pro-Kits are a good alternative to his springs (though not ideal).

Sent from Motorola ATRIX 4G on Tapatalk

[davidz28]

Of course the Stranos are going to claim to be much better than everyone elses shocks. They are good springs no doubt but I have been very pleased with my vogtlands plus they have a 10 year no sag warranty

[BadTA00]

I was stating the fact that, yes Vogtland makes his springs but to his specifications. Because they are not the same as the production Vogtland springs which are too stiff.

Of course the Stranos are going to claim to be much better than everyone elses shocks. They are good springs no doubt but I have been very pleased with my vogtlands plus they have a 10 year no sag warranty

From F-Body Road Racing and Autocross Forums > Technical Discussion > Chassis & Suspension Tech
Here in the following Posts they talk about Vogtland being on par with Eibach Sportlines in stiffness:

Board Message

Post #11

Has anyone heard of Vogtland springs? The rear spring rate seems a bit high to me.

Working Rate lb/inch Drop Front/Rear
Front rate 336 lb./in. - 542 lb./in.
Front working rate 440 lb./in. - 542 lb./in.
Drop: 1.2" or 30mm

Rear 77 lb./in - 228 lb./in.
Working rate 183 lb./in. - 228 lb./in.
1.2" or 30mm

"By using the VVS alloy Vogtland is able to manufacture a superior spring which is up to 30% lighter than other springs of the same spring rates. This will reduce your unsprung weight and give you better handling, response, and road feel. These springs come with a 10 year no sag warranty."

They claim the springs weigh 33lbs vs 44 lbs (eibach prokit) for fbody applications.

Post #12

Has anyone heard of Vogtland springs? The rear spring rate seems a bit high to me.

A friend asked me about them many months ago. I did some research and it appears that the rears are just too stiff/variable. I'd lump them in with Sportlines as springs you don't want for performance. Just my opinion, but since you asked.... smile.gif

Look at post #11 and #12. This was before Strano had his springs made.
And Strano anounced in this post his intent to have hi Springs made:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.p...ndpost&p=79875

Post #19

I guess it's time to mention this.

I'm having a set of springs made by a "known" spring company that are 550/150 linear rate approx. 1.25" drop. Much like the circumstances that led to us having our own swaybars made, enough things are happening to warrant such a move.

Now, the trial set will have to be tested on a car, etc and it'll be a while until production run will be ready. But I figured I'd mention it here.

Coil-overs. Nice in they allow you to alter heights and change rate. No so nice in the fact when when used on Koni's you have some pain in the ass work to do to install them, your warranty could well be void if something were to happen (it's pretty obvious when a coil-over sleeve is installed on a shock), and they cost more.

The cross-weights on an f-body are damn good, so if you lower the car a pretty much like amount all around, they will stay in check. So the ability to jack weight around isn't a huge one. The height. I've tried a lot of things, and given the front and rear suspension travels and geometries, you don't want to slam the car. Most folks with coil-overs end up about 1.25" down, which is the most I consider reasonable. The rates..... Well, let's just say they are well proven, come from my experiences both autoxing, tracking and street driving.

So if you can wait.... wait. Something that I think will be actually better is on the horizon.

And here he talks about the LT1 Pro-Kit and Hotchkis (all prior to having his own springs made):

Board Message

Post #16

I'm wondering if this isn't a whole lot of trouble for not a lot of reason.

First off, the spring market is well saturated to begin with. And if you do your homework and look around there are a few very workable springs already out there. There are a lot of opinions, and that in itself makes things tough. And at the risk of starting another episode of the great debate, I'll explain my point as best I can.

There is no perfect spring for EVERY instance, and that is what makes picking and choosing tough.

First, let me start by saying that not all progressive springs are what they appear to be. For instance, the LT1 Pro-kit isn't really as progressive as it appears on paper because of the way it's wound. The soft coils do dead with any weight at all on them (like the car just sitting on them). In reality they are much more linear than you'd think, you need only look at the way the spacing between coils are setup. Same with the back, soft coils are very close together and in reality not so soft.

Then you have Hotchkis. There are numbers floating around out there, and at one time might have been "right", but aren't anymore. All the Hotchkis springs I've had through here in semi-recent times are not very progressive at all. Coil spacing is pretty damn uniform all the way through... look for yourself: http://www.hotchkis.net/cgi-bin/EDCs...catalogno=1905

I do sell Hotchkis springs, and have been using a fair number of them for certain instances too.

In the end, if someone is demanding enough to want the "ultimate" they are probably not going to agree on what spring rate that is (imagine that). Then add to the fact that you have the same *ahem* types of opinions about ride height (again, not news to anyone here) and I think you'll not get a consensus on that either.

I'm not one who thinks slamming is a good idea. I don't think that huge spring rates are a good idea. But there are folks who think that I'm wrong too.

Given the springs that are out there.. Truly progressive (a number of them), "Progressives" that really are pretty linear (like the LT1 Pro-kits and the Hotchkis springs) and lower the car 1-1.25" or so and aren't near as soft as LS1 Pro-kits, and linears like you get with coil-overs and allow your own height and corner weighting anyway..... I think the bases are pretty well covered.

Now if you wanted to make a linear slammed spring, you could. But it wouldn't be something I'd personally use.

It's a niche that is largely filled already.

Just MHO.

Board Message

Post #22

That was my thought, a "proper" set of springs for the F-body crowd who are autocross/corner carver types who drive their cars (like me, I'm still running H&R's and have been for a while, though I've got rear GC stuff on the way). I wondered if I was aiming for a hole that wasn't there, or if there is room for such a product.

If I can get it worked out to the right ride height (26.5" seems like a good target, give or take a little) and do it for a reasonable price, I thought it might be worth trying. I'm not against spending a few bucks to make this work if there are at least a few people who will buy such things. Of course, I'm still waiting to see what "a few bucks" is going to mean.

Yeah, I think that hole is pretty well filled (MHO ONLY) by the Hotchkis and Pro-kit springs.

Spooner is correct that the LT! Pro-kit blocks the rebound adjuster on the front Koni's. That's where the Hotchkis springs come in nicely since they are of similar overall rate and don't block said adjuster. The LT1 Pro-kit lowers the car truly about 1.25", and the Hotchkis about 1".

I'm not saying there isn't room for another spring. I'm saying that unless you are want to do something radically different that there is no big niche for them. Also, and not a small concern is to have springs made by a reputable spring company. Cheap springs cause problems (and there are cheap springs out there).

I suppose the short answer is, that in my opinoin there are "proper" springs out there for someone in your situation. Someone's opinion might differ from that, because many feel that a street driver/corner carver car should have coil-overs on it. Some feel it should have stock springs. Frankly, I don't subscribe to the notion that you *need* one or the other. It comes down to the person's wants. If they want springs, I think their wants can be answered by kits already out there.

While this might sound weird since I made my own bars, I did it because I felt there was a want for lighter hollow bars, and the bar sizes I wanted had to be pieced together before, which cost time and more money. So economics was a driving force in it along with the weight savings. I also had thought of a "proper" spring. But the more I thought of what I wanted for most folks, the more I realized it was out there already. And anyone wanting or needing more is demanding enough or performance oriented enough to probably want to select their own rates and heights. Which means coil-overs.

Again, MHO. I'm not saying it wouldn't work. What I'm saying is that coming up with a "number" that enough folks agree on and be marketable isn't likely. And the underlying thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that spring rates are something that need tested. I don't think you can just pick one without having tried a lot of them (and being able to account for differences in rate vs. ride height). Folks want some history and research behind their product. Doing that is very tough for anyone without a LOT of money or the ability to drive a lot of different cars to do. Luckily I've been able to drive a LOT of cars with all kinds of different parts, or else I'd not have as much footing to stand on. smile.gif

[35th-ANV-SS]

I was stating the fact that, yes Vogtland makes his springs but to his specifications. Because they are not the same as the production Vogtland springs which are too stiff.

Here in the following they talk about Vogtland being on par with Eibach Sportlines in stiffness:

Board Message

Look at post #11 and #12. This was before Strano had his springs made.

And here he talks about the LT1 Pro-Kit and Hotchkis (all prior to having his own springs made):

Board Message

Board Message

Your links don't work. Probably because you have to be a member on that forum to view them.

[Redrokit8]

I have bilsteins, stranos, and a UMI on car adjustable panhard bar. I absolutely love the set up and the car rides very nicely.

Now that is a great looking ride. I'm looking forward to finally getting the same set up installed this month.

[BadTA00]

Your links don't work. Probably because you have to be a member on that forum to view them.

Updated my post with quotes

[2001camaroSS]

Now that is a great looking ride. I'm looking forward to finally getting the same set up installed this month.

I appreciate the kind words! I'm sure it will look great on your car as well.

[Ls_won]

im running tokiko blues.. bmr springs.. founders perf LCA relo, and weld in subframe connect. car sits lower than any f body i seen..

[matt evans]

im running the summit springs, yea there cheaper then everyone else but ive not had a problem at all out of ether sets ive bought. No sag at all and the ones on my black Z have been on there for 3 years. Running all umi on that car as well and ran a 7.76 in the 1/8 feathering off the line.

[BrownsMillsAntz]

Ebay 1.5 drop springs in the front and 1.2 Eibachs in the rear. Monroe shocks lol on all corners..Ever since I put the isolators back in the rear the car rides great