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Just shocks and springs for now?

This is a discussion on Just shocks and springs for now? within the Suspension and Handling forums, part of the General Help category; I'm wanting to upgrade my shocks and springs and was just wondering if that would be good enough. I can't ...

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    Just shocks and springs for now?

    I'm wanting to upgrade my shocks and springs and was just wondering if that would be good enough. I can't afford to do LCA's or sway bars, etc. Is that good enough for now or do I have to do other things too?

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    Rockin the Ruckus! 02Sweet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriot1136 View Post
    I'm wanting to upgrade my shocks and springs and was just wondering if that would be good enough. I can't afford to do LCA's or sway bars, etc. Is that good enough for now or do I have to do other things too?
    bump to hear inputs i am thinking the same thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriot1136 View Post
    I'm wanting to upgrade my shocks and springs and was just wondering if that would be good enough. I can't afford to do LCA's or sway bars, etc. Is that good enough for now or do I have to do other things too?
    Gotta start somewhere. However, if you're planning on lowering the car, it's going to change the angle of your LCA's, and change your instant center of the car. Just be prepared for it to handle differently. I would at the very least get relocation brackets and new LCA's the next time you have extra cash after shocks and springs...

    But I would say as long as you're not doing any real road racing you will be fine.

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    Senior Member bigrondownhiller's Avatar
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    You might need an adjustable panhard bar to center the rear after lowering.

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    If you lower the car, you will likely want to get an adjustable PHR and lower control arm relocation brackets. These will help improve the suspension geometry which will be screwed up a little when you lower the car. We sell both items made by Spohn and they are very inexpensive and work well
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    Member c5z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriot1136 View Post
    I'm wanting to upgrade my shocks and springs and was just wondering if that would be good enough. I can't afford to do LCA's or sway bars, etc. Is that good enough for now or do I have to do other things too?
    If you have stock w/ tires you can avoid the panhard rod for now. And relocation brackets are nice from a dig but as for corner carving the angle is better in stock trim so your good to go.
    What suspension setup are you getting?

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    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Toys View Post
    If you lower the car, you will likely want to get an adjustable PHR and lower control arm relocation brackets. These will help improve the suspension geometry which will be screwed up a little when you lower the car. We sell both items made by Spohn and they are very inexpensive and work well

    yep, highly recommended to get an adjustable

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    Junior Member Paul Huryk's Avatar
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    While sway bars do make a difference (larger ones), you can get a good portion of the handling improvement by changing the bushings and end links to poly for the bars you have. It minimizes deflection and gives more feel.

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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Okay, to the OP...

    The first thing you need to do is to be clear as to what you want your car to do...

    Setting up a 4th-gen f-body's suspension is an either/or decision. Either you set it up for the twisties or you set it up for the 1/4.

    If you COMPROMISE your f-body to do both, then you're going to get compromised handling, compromised launching.

    I hear the LCA and relocation brackets a LOT for suspension upgrades, but truly, aftermarket LCA's a better geared for launching in the 1/4, not good for handling as the poly LCA's tend to bind and your handling gets pretty scary due to the fact that the aftermarket LCA's seriously limit the travel of our 10 bolts.

    Now, LCA reloc brackets would be okay as long as you use the factory LCA's AND factory rubber bushings, very nice for the twisties, NOT good for the 1/4 mile times.

    Adjustable PHR works when you lower your car, and if you want much better handling then get double rod-ended PanHard Rods.
    Some folks say that they create more road noise, but I got a double rod-ended PHR and no significant road noise compared to the factory PHR.

    Now, if you get rod-ended LCA's, THEN you're gonna get some additional road noise BIG TIME!!!

    So your idea of shocks and springs, well, bottomline for handling, shocks are THE MOST IMPORTANT part of the equation.

    You can spend over $800 bucks and buy 4/4 Koni Single Adjustable shocks and match them with factory springs and you'll swear that someone switched cars on you, it's THAT drastic a change when it comes to handling.

    If you buy lowering springs AND the Koni's, then I would suggest a double rod-ended PHR and you'll be quite surprised by the results...

    Depending on the aftermarket springs you get, if you get the Koni SA's(best choice for handling.) then you'll want to adjust them to respond to the springs as nice as possible.

    You can get the swaybars later.


    Now, should you want more information on "handling" better, then I would suggest you check frrax.com, lots of f-body owners who road race and/or autox.

    Also stranoparts.com. Sam Strano has WON 3 NATIONAL AUTOCROSS CHAMPIONSHIPS in the past 6 years I think, in a 98 Camaro Z28, sucker has beaten all other types of vehicles including STI's, EVO's, Miata's, Mustangs, in an f-body with his own springs, Koni 4/4 shocks, his swaybars, adj. PHR, and aggressive alignment, and that's it.

    MY .02...and really, who am I but another poster on the internet
    Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos01SS View Post
    Also stranoparts.com. Sam Strano has WON 3 NATIONAL AUTOCROSS CHAMPIONSHIPS in the past 6 years I think, in a 98 Camaro Z28, sucker has beaten all other types of vehicles including STI's, EVO's, Miata's, Mustangs, in an f-body with his own springs, Koni 4/4 shocks, his swaybars, adj. PHR, and aggressive alignment, and that's it.
    My car is actually an '01. I've won in an '82, my '01, and a few in a Mustang. A total of 5 National Championships since 2002, and 4 ProSolo series Championships since '02 as well.

    I have beaten Evo's and STi's straight up early in their development and before their classing was changed (and I'm glad for that). My car now has a Watts link on it, but everything else supsension wise is pretty much what Carlos stated.

    Changing sway bar bushings is in no way, shape, or form similar to changing bars. Bushings only make the bars react a little sooner, they don't make more roll stiffness. Some difference if your stock stuff is complete trashed, but not much. And fwiw, it's lost on most folks the stock endlink bushings are quite stiff to start with. Bushings in no way make a change that is at all similar to say a 30-45% in front roll stiffness you get from running a 35mm front bar vs. a stock 30 or 32 bar. Same in the rear, a 22mm is about 33% stiffer than a stock 19mm. I won't deny bushings don't hurt... but new bars come with new bushings, and a complete set of urethane links and mount bushings costs a fair chunk of what a swaybar does.

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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    My car is actually an '01. I've won in an '82, my '01, and a few in a Mustang. A total of 5 National Championships since 2002, and 4 ProSolo series Championships since '02 as well.

    I have beaten Evo's and STi's straight up early in their development and before their classing was changed (and I'm glad for that). My car now has a Watts link on it, but everything else supsension wise is pretty much what Carlos stated.

    Changing sway bar bushings is in no way, shape, or form similar to changing bars. Bushings only make the bars react a little sooner, they don't make more roll stiffness. Some difference if your stock stuff is complete trashed, but not much. And fwiw, it's lost on most folks the stock endlink bushings are quite stiff to start with. Bushings in no way make a change that is at all similar to say a 30-45% in front roll stiffness you get from running a 35mm front bar vs. a stock 30 or 32 bar. Same in the rear, a 22mm is about 33% stiffer than a stock 19mm. I won't deny bushings don't hurt... but new bars come with new bushings, and a complete set of urethane links and mount bushings costs a fair chunk of what a swaybar does.
    Sorry for that misinformation there Sam.
    You are GREAT when it comes to f-body suspension and you have proven it with your results.

    I'll always be a customer!

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    No problem Carlos..

    BTW, I'm dropping you a PM. Have something here you might want....
    Sam Strano
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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    No problem Carlos..

    BTW, I'm dropping you a PM. Have something here you might want....

    PM sent back Sam!


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    Carlos,
    You are awesome man. That is the best response I have ever gotten on anything ever so I really appreciate it. I do want to set it up for the twisties and you made it real clear for me so I know what I need to do with it. Thanks again and to everyone else who contributed.

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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriot1136 View Post
    Carlos,
    You are awesome man. That is the best response I have ever gotten on anything ever so I really appreciate it. I do want to set it up for the twisties and you made it real clear for me so I know what I need to do with it. Thanks again and to everyone else who contributed.
    Hey man, no problemo.

    I learned a LOT from Sam, he steered me in the right direction, this was AFTER I learned the hard way and really set up my first 4th-gen soooo wrong.

    I had a 93Z28 fucking LOVED that car, I wanted my car to be a great handler cuz I like to take the turns VERY aggressively and hard. I asked a lot of questions here and on ls1tech.com about what shocks and springs and I was told by many to get the Eiback Prokits and Bilstien HD shocks, so I believed them and went for them. I got SFC's and swaybars from RKSPorts(solid 35mm front, solid 25mm rear) and basically I was following everyones advice(didn't know who Sam was by then.).

    Bottomline I had a car that would fishtail out of corners, the rear was VERY loose, the front end would push into the turns, it was VERY unstable and bone-jarring ride and I thought FUCK, this car is a POS, why did I buy it?

    It was scary.

    I also changed the shocks to the KYB AGX's, didn't handle much better.

    Basically I wasted my money.

    Once I talked to Sam, he educated me BIG TIME about handling, he told me that Koni SA's were the way to go, he said that the Bilstiens were DEFINITELY not maded for lowering springs and that after 20K miles I probably blew them out because they weren't designed to work with less travel AND the KYB's, well, they're better, but still aren't damped firm enough to prevent my car from bouncing off of the springs, the rear swaybar was too big which caused the rear to be so stiff laterally that it caused the rear tires to lose grip and made it unstable when exiting corners, so what did I do???

    I sold the 93, basically said f it and started over, got an 01SS and immediately got the Koni DA shocks and NOT the SA shocks that Sam told me to get.
    I bought Koni Dual Adjustable shocks, from another company cuz I got them for cheap price and to find out later that I should've bought the SA's because really, the DA's are designed to be rebuilt in order to match the race courses better AND that really, riding them on the streets might cause them to blow out after a while(the rears anyway) because they weren't really meant to be used on a daily driver like the SA's were and guess what happened???

    My rear Koni DA's blew.


    So NOW I got new Koni SA's for the rear(haven't installed them yet.), I ended up getting the GC Coilover spring setup so I could adjust my ride height, 500lb fronts 150lb rears, Sam's hollow 35mm front swaybar(installed) and his rear 22mm swaybar(not installed yet.), SFC's(Sam told me it wasn't needed but I'm glad I got them), double adj. rod-ended PHR, and there you go.

    and FWIW, Sam TOLD me to get 550lb fronts, but I hesitated and wanted the 500lb fronts cuz I was afraid it would be too stiff.

    Anyway, MAN my car handles like a MONSTER!!!
    She is soooo responsive, and will be more so once I replace the blown DA rears with the SA rears and new swaybar, make the rear end a bit more responsive as opposed to it lagging a bit behind in turns which causes understeer, that is, I have to work my steering wheel more to make the car turn while in the turn.

    AND, now I have 600lb fronts and 200lb rear springs that need to be installed as I want a firmer more responsive ride AND I'm carrying about 200lbs of car audio in the back.

    So my car is quite unique, it had special requirements because I'm a finicky driver, and Sam has been with me all this time, I'll ALWAYS give Sam props because he was patient with me and he gave me GREAT advice, and really, I should have listened to him in the first place!!!

    So I appreciate your response here, and, it's due to Sam Strano, he's a GREAT guy, VERY passionate about our f-bodies, and he won't steer you wrong. You tell him what you want your car to do, give him your budget, he'll set you up as best as he could.


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    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Does anyone know the .lb ratings for all the springs people tend to buy for the 4th gens. Just curious.

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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    Does anyone know the .lb ratings for all the springs people tend to buy for the 4th gens. Just curious.

    I thiiiiiiiink there was a thread on ls1tech.com that had a lot of info on aftermarket springs, just wouldn't know where to find it...Probably in the suspension & handling section on ls1tech.com.

    And truly, making an f-body a GREAT handler is dependent on how serious you are in regards to making your car a GREAT handler or a better handler than stock, BIG difference.

    Lowered springs are stiffer than factory with the exception of the Eibach Sportlines which IMHO is a waste of money UNLESS you want a car with the slammed look, the Sportlines will give you that, and your handling will be FAR worse than the factory springs cuz they're springrate is very soft AND too low.

    lowered doesn't necessarily mean better handling. You could have a GREAT handling f-body with factory springs or 1LE option springs and the Koni SA shocks. Your handling depends on how much you are willing to push the envelope and how much are you willing to spend to get the most extreme handling vehicle.

    AND, we're all different, great handling for you could mean okay handling for me and vice-versa.

    I think BMR has 550lb front 160lb rears, this is their newest spring rates, linear.

    Strano springs are 550lb fronts 150lb rears, linear.

    LGMotorsports are 600lb fronts 200lb rears, don't know if you can get them any longer.

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    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Well thx a lot for the info. you do have! That's interesting.

    Who knows; I might be done modding the camaro and make it a handling machine...buy a Trans Am and make it quick.

    Got a ride for both worlds.

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    Senior Member Carlos01SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    Well thx a lot for the info. you do have! That's interesting.

    Who knows; I might be done modding the camaro and make it a handling machine...buy a Trans Am and make it quick.

    Got a ride for both worlds.
    Now see, THAT'S a good idea!

    One for the corners, one for the straights.

    I actually entertained that thought too, but really, I like turns, so I stuck with one, and thank GAWD for that cuz really I couldn't afford putting money into 2 of 'em...let alone affording to OWN 2 of 'em.

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    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    I love my cars so I don't mind spending money on them...I will think hard about this.

    The Camaro would need the suspension, a cam and call it good.

    The Trans Am will just have a big turbo or a big shot of nitrous, just playing with ideas right now lol

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