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Front Control Arm Bushings?

This is a discussion on Front Control Arm Bushings? within the Suspension and Handling forums, part of the General Help category; Does any one know what Prothane means by stating their front control arm bushing kit comes without shells? I'm looking ...

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Front Control Arm Bushings?

    Does any one know what Prothane means by stating their front control arm bushing kit comes without shells?

    I'm looking to replace my worn out OEM rubbers. Prothane is like 20 bucks cheaper than Energy Suspension. I'm curious if any one knows what the difference between the two company kits would be.

    Too bad Prothane's site wasn't more help full, .

    thanks

    kool-aide

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    The metal sleave on the old factory bushings have to be used with the new Prothane bushings. When pressing your old bushings out, if you use a smaller socket, you can press the sleave out and tear it from the bushing. Take the metal sleave and wire wheal the rest of the factory rubber off of it. Press the sleave into the new Prothane bushings. Use plenty of assembly lube. Make sure you torque the arms back to 39ft/lbs.

    A bit of a PITA but not to bad.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 980birds View Post
    The metal sleave on the old factory bushings have to be used with the new Prothane bushings. When pressing your old bushings out, if you use a smaller socket, you can press the sleave out and tear it from the bushing. Take the metal sleave and wire wheal the rest of the factory rubber off of it. Press the sleave into the new Prothane bushings. Use plenty of assembly lube. Make sure you torque the arms back to 39ft/lbs.

    A bit of a PITA but not to bad.
    thanks. I forgot Prothane was in CA. The gives me a 2.5-3 hours after work to call them. The guy on the phone said the same thing. Pull the old busings, burn or remove the rubber and reuse the outer shell. The give you the bushing and inner shell. He said there kit also comes with the teflon lube, nice.

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    I sell Energy Suspension and Prothane. I'd recommend neither, especially in the front lower control arm. They don't last and it becomes a nightmare chasing broken bushings--plus they are a pain in the ass to install.

    For about $60 I can put you on new OE style replacement bushings that last longer, ride better, and just press in. Cleaner, neater, quieter and more durable.....

    Again, I can sell the urethane stuff if you *want*. I don't think it's wise.
    Sam Strano
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    What about upper control arm bushings?

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    Uppers just don't take a beating and in all honesty I've not see a set yet that was in dire need of changing. However we have uppers too that are "replacement". They're about $25 a side.

    You'll note that rubber OE type bushings do cost more than urethane. That's both because rubber costs more, and the fact they are self contained with their own sleeves vs. reusing the old steel (less parts, less money) with the urethane.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    Uppers just don't take a beating and in all honesty I've not see a set yet that was in dire need of changing. However we have uppers too that are "replacement". They're about $25 a side.

    You'll note that rubber OE type bushings do cost more than urethane. That's both because rubber costs more, and the fact they are self contained with their own sleeves vs. reusing the old steel (less parts, less money) with the urethane.
    how do you know if they need repalcing?

    I have 103k and going on mine.

    There is lateral play in the bushings.

    Plus I have a noise when I turn in one direction. As far as I know it is not the caliper making it, and I have new upper and lower ball joints.

    I figured it was the arms sliding a little bit. And this is why I am replacing them.

    thanks.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    I sell Energy Suspension and Prothane. I'd recommend neither, especially in the front lower control arm. They don't last and it becomes a nightmare chasing broken bushings--plus they are a pain in the ass to install.

    For about $60 I can put you on new OE style replacement bushings that last longer, ride better, and just press in. Cleaner, neater, quieter and more durable.....

    Again, I can sell the urethane stuff if you *want*. I don't think it's wise.
    ok, so now i have to ask the dumb question. If you bought new arms what would you put in them? All the ones I see for sale come with poly bushings in them. Not trying to be a smart ass, but i hope you see where i'm going with this.

    thanks

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    hello, I guess Mr Strano went on vaca?

    I was really hoping to get a good dialog going on the busings. I'm not looking forward to replacing them, but if I have to I have too. I would like to hear more about why it is better to go rubber vs poly. I don't want to waste my money or time buying the wrong thing.

    thanks

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    I guess I'm not allowed to take weekends off???? You wrote back on Friday @ 7 pm. I do have a life outside out of work ya know.

    I can't recommend any change in arms here. I don't know what you doing with the car. Frankly the stock arms don't suck as bad as most think and in fact I have stock arms on my car (by rule) but I also don't need anything else as I have no issues that are related to control arm problems.

    Not saying the aren't needed or even wanted from time to time... but you're wanting to have a discussion about them, but with nothing for me to go on. If you can't tell me why you are thinking you need new arms, I can't say you do and won't recommend them.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    I guess I'm not allowed to take weekends off???? You wrote back on Friday @ 7 pm. I do have a life outside out of work ya know.

    I can't recommend any change in arms here. I don't know what you doing with the car. Frankly the stock arms don't suck as bad as most think and in fact I have stock arms on my car (by rule) but I also don't need anything else as I have no issues that are related to control arm problems.

    Not saying the aren't needed or even wanted from time to time... but you're wanting to have a discussion about them, but with nothing for me to go on. If you can't tell me why you are thinking you need new arms, I can't say you do and won't recommend them.
    this is a sweat shop man...like little foreign kids, slave labor. .

    I could take pics. I'm not very good at solving car problems. The only info I know is the noise, 103k miles on bushings, and side to side movement in the bushings.

    I don't know if the arms are supposed to move a little side to side or i guess you could say front to back.

    My biggest concern is trying to figure out what the noise is. The shop wasn't sure what it is, and after the upper and lower ball joints were done the problem didn't go away. Sometimes shops know and some times its replace parts until something fixes it.

    So my thought was start replacing old rubber parts, like bushings until the noise goes away.

    things that have less than 15k on new parts up front, sway bar end links, ball joints upper and lower, outer tie rod ends, shocks, shock mounts, calipers, brakes, rotors. Thats about it. As you can see in a year and a half I have been replacing the old or the broke.

    I'm not sure when the noise started, because I play loud music and only drive about 260 miles every two weeks. but i noticed the noise after the shock install. considering the shocks went on and off about 4 times, because that's the story of my life. So I'm not real sure what it could be.

    trust me i am not looking forward to removing the shocks again or fooling with the bushings if i don't have too.

    thanks

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    What kind of noise?

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    A clunk kind of noise. No grinding or rubbing noise, just a little clunk. It only happens when I turn right. Or when I jerk the wheel left and come back hard to the right. Either way only to the right.

    It reminds me of a clunk that would make sens if something was loose or something.

    Tell you the truth it almost reminds me of a bad caliper. But there is no rubbing or grinding. There is no pull in braking either.

    I'm not ruling out anything, I just can't think of what parts could make the noise. Of course being under the car shaking stuff didn't help find anything.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    any thing else I can do to describe the noise or help figure it out? i don't know how hard it would be to get a video. it would have to be from inside the car, but I'm willing to try.

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    I doubt its the bushings. Though I've seen the control arms wear out and the rear bushing in the lower front arm doesn't stay pressed in which can cause a clunk.

    No way in all honest to diagnose it without seeing the car.

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Hmm, how hard is it to look at that lower arm? You're probably going to say take the wheel off and put it on a lift. How about I take the wheel off and put it on a jack stand.

    What worries me about the right side is the rough ride it took doing the shock install. After my first attempt at installing the front shocks I didn't realize the shock mount was busted. On my test drive there was a lot of up and down travel and a lot of hard hitting and clunking. It was awful.

    I also found a loose motor mount bolt, right side, while working on my A/C two weeks ago. The through bolt was backed out by a rough 1/4 inch. I was not expecting to see that. I'm going to take it out this weekend for a test drive and see if the noise is still there. I don't know if this could be the problem or not. But a 1/4 inch is a lot of slack in a bolt, wow.

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    That's a a 100% clunk....

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Strano View Post
    That's a a 100% clunk....
    Ok. so one loose motor mount through bolt, clunk. I took a couple of minutes on the way out of my neighborhood this morning to jerk the car around.

    I didn't notice or hear any clunks. I plan to give it a go in the morning when its not pouring rain and lightening. This afternoon alone the news reported almost 8k strikes, wow.

    I'm also going to see if I can get under there and check the bolt again. What bothers me is not being able to get a torque wrench in there without taking a lot of stuff off.

    The mount was also put in by a local shop, kind of grumpy and very surprised. There are very good and not the kind of place you would expect to turn out poor work.

    Any idea what may cause the bolt to back out? I was always under the impression torque specs were for two reasons. The spec is the farthest you can push it without breaking it, and it supposed to keep things together and not back out.

    thanks

    kool-aide

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    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    well that seems to have been the problem, thank you.

    It was a complete paranoid act of double checking every thing while I was working on my A/C. I did so much swearing and banging around i wanted to check to make sure i didn't break anything. Sure enough I looked up at the engine mount and saw about 1/4 inch of bolt from the nut backing off.

    I was surprised and glad i noticed it. I tightened it up as best I could and the clunk seems to have gone away. I'm glad I found it before getting to deep into spending money replacing parts in a trial by error approach.

    I checked it again today and it still was wrench tight.

    I looked at the lower control arm. I have no idea what I'm inspecting. It looked old and dirty to me. I guess it was a little on the dry side as far as old rubber goes. I would have to get under there and take pictures, but I will most likely just replace the bushings. I figure I can take my time now that the clunk was fixed by the engine mount bolt. It will probably take a lot of time, because I really don't feel like digging into replacing the bushings. I just know it will be an all day event with me swearing to the world they are out to get me.

    thanks for all the help.

    last bushing question, would new OEM style rubber bushings come with the shell?

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    Yes....

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