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short throw shifter

This is a discussion on short throw shifter within the Manual Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; Originally Posted by 01Z28M6 For those who may not know, there are hard stops within the transmission to prevent overextention. ...

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    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01Z28M6 View Post
    For those who may not know, there are hard stops within the transmission to prevent overextention. The stops on the aftermarket shifters are superfluous.
    You are still putting stress on those components inside the transmission. Why else would they put adjustable stops on the shifter?

    If our transmission were equiped with better shifters from the factory, some of these trannys wouldn't have problems like they do.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01Z28M6 View Post
    For those who may not know, there are hard stops within the transmission to prevent overextention. The stops on the aftermarket shifters are superfluous.
    Ahh, we've heard this before, but then how do people on here end up with bent internal shift forks?? Surely the internal hard stops must prevent this??

    Unfortunately they do not, which is the reason an aftermarket shifter with adjustable stops is a good investment.

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    Wesman,
    That may be a true statement if you believe that it is the shifting into gear that bends/ damages forks. It is not true. What damages forks is mis-shifting. Shifting with a mis-timed clutch engagement or simply not using the clutch at all. That will produce a clash, or rejection of the sleeve from the gear. It is that rejection force that damages forks. Your "good investment" stops will do absolutely nothing to address this except make your wallet lighter. If you had done correct research before you spoke ( seems you have an ongoing problem with that) you will find that there are many on here with damaged forks AND stops on the shifter.Also you would find that many of those with the damaged forks also have severely damaged clutch teeth on the gears.Aftermarket shifters have adjustable stops for marketing:because people like you sell them for them.There is good news though. Properly adjusted( thats a big if too) stops do nothing. That means they will do no harm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30thbird View Post
    Wesman,
    That may be a true statement if you believe that it is the shifting into gear that bends/ damages forks. It is not true. What damages forks is mis-shifting. Shifting with a mis-timed clutch engagement or simply not using the clutch at all. That will produce a clash, or rejection of the sleeve from the gear. It is that rejection force that damages forks. Your "good investment" stops will do absolutely nothing to address this except make your wallet lighter. If you had done correct research before you spoke ( seems you have an ongoing problem with that) you will find that there are many on here with damaged forks AND stops on the shifter.Also you would find that many of those with the damaged forks also have severely damaged clutch teeth on the gears.Aftermarket shifters have adjustable stops for marketing:because people like you sell them for them.There is good news though. Properly adjusted( thats a big if too) stops do nothing. That means they will do no harm.
    If you ever adjusted the stops on the shifter, you would no why they are necessary! The shifter only needs to be in the position where it is in gear. Anything over that is unnecessary, and in return will bend the shift forks.

    "It is that rejection force that damages forks." {Your statement.) The same is so when you over shift causing wear of more than just the shift fork

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    9t,
    I am not going to argue with those that do not reqally get it, although they think they do. I have seen the damage( as I satated above)and fully understand all the dynamics of the shift linkage your statement only supports that you do not.Spend your money and enjoy your plecebo.

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    See ya

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30thbird View Post
    Wesman,
    That may be a true statement if you believe that it is the shifting into gear that bends/ damages forks. It is not true. What damages forks is mis-shifting. Shifting with a mis-timed clutch engagement or simply not using the clutch at all. That will produce a clash, or rejection of the sleeve from the gear. It is that rejection force that damages forks. Your "good investment" stops will do absolutely nothing to address this except make your wallet lighter. If you had done correct research before you spoke ( seems you have an ongoing problem with that) you will find that there are many on here with damaged forks AND stops on the shifter.Also you would find that many of those with the damaged forks also have severely damaged clutch teeth on the gears.Aftermarket shifters have adjustable stops for marketing:because people like you sell them for them.There is good news though. Properly adjusted( thats a big if too) stops do nothing. That means they will do no harm.
    Well aparently it seems that you know everything. Too bad, because it is entirely possible to bend the shift forks from shift overextension. Yes, they can be bent from mis-shifts, but they can also become bent from shift fork overextension.

    The stop bolts are there as a preventitive measure against bending a shift fork due to overextension. If they were useless, the manufacturers wouldn't waste their time implementing them into their shifters. When I'm pounding through the gears at the track, its nice to have a positive stop at the end of each shift, so that I know the trans is completely in gear, and that the shifter will not travel any further than necessary.

    It helps not to be a wiseass, too, people might actually take your posts seriously

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    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
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    +2 for WESMAN. I know my 126,000 mile trans could use all the help it needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30thbird View Post
    What damages forks is mis-shifting. Shifting with a mis-timed clutch engagement or simply not using the clutch at all. That will produce a clash, or rejection of the sleeve from the gear. It is that rejection force that damages forks.
    Thanks. Then it is the force of an unsynchronized gear engagement attempt that wears and bends the forks? The hard stops within the transmission end the ability to exert any more lateral pressure on the forks and unless those stops are damaged the forks cannot be bent by overextention. Overextention only loads the shifter mechanism and its linkage?

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    Wessy its you who is a self-proven smartass know-it all.It is useless to debate a topic that you command much less knowledge than you think you do.
    01Z
    You are on the right track. The fact is its the 3/4 fork that wears at the rail in the T56 . It does not bend . There is a replacement iron fork available. The only fork that has a bend history in the T56 is the 5/6 fork. That damage is caused by the mis-shift issue. Mis-shifting can also damage the fork pads.The damage in either case will NOT be "saved" by the stops.
    If the stops were really that great why would OEMs not use them? Do you really think they are out to "cheat" you out of a quality product? It does not make sense that an OEM would not do everything possible to insure long life of their products( there are warranties ). It costs alot more for ANY trans repair than it would to put silly stops in a shifter base.

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    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
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    Do you really think they are out to "cheat" you out of a quality product?
    YES

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    I suggest , then, that it is you who are the fool for buying a product you believe is defective from the get-go.
    I do not believe that.
    Last edited by 30thbird; 01-17-2007 at 06:07 AM.

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    Chill Out

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    T56 Transmission specialists recommend the use of stops on shifters. I called 3 different places and they all said the same thing. Thet weren't even selling me a shifter, so I guess they were giving me false information just for the hell of it. "HUH"

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    Wow ,I think it is you who need to chill out. Be glad you found a "fix" for that piece of crap you stupidly bought.
    My factory Hurst has never let me down nor has my t56.

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    30thbird, Obviously you know the internals of the T56. You don't need to argue the point further because your description of the function is convincing. I use a Pro 5.0 and don't have a problem with what you said.

    All GM and the others want is to be able to sell cars and sell them again. So quality is a balancing act for the bean counters. None the less, you seem to know these transmissions and I'm convinced you know what you are talking about. It's alright for people to buy the positive stop shifters if that's what makes them feel safer. The money isn't really wasted because the buyers end up happier one way or the other.

    I've been on the internet when it was fidonet and have learned to make a point and then correct it if there is anything wrong. The prattle from posturing just adds bandwidth and raises the blood pressure. We've all won on this one and thanks for posting some good strong facts.

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    Don't take this the wrong way 30thBIRD, but where do you get your knowledge of the T56? What makes you an expert? This is not an attack at you, I'm just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30thbird View Post
    Wessy its you who is a self-proven smartass know-it all.It is useless to debate a topic that you command much less knowledge than you think you do.
    Dude, just stop it, right now. First of all, don't try and abbreviate my username. Second of all, you aren't the god of vehicles, nor do you even have any clue what you're talking about beyond what you happen to have learned from your own experience.

    I'm only going to say this one more time: Aftermarket stops are not a hoax or worthless. They prevent over travel of the shifter, and on some cars, the shift forks. They are not just there to look pretty. When I go through the gears at the track, having a positive stock after the engagement of each gear lets me know that the gear is fully engaged. Without the stop bolts, there is only a "soft" stop, which is the shift fork making contact at the end of its tavel. The shifter will still move more once the gear is fully engaged, due to slack in between the internal stop and the shifter itself.

    If you're just going to be a smartass and try and tell everyone that they're wrong no matter what, don't bother posting, because you're a waste of space.
    Last edited by mrr23; 01-24-2007 at 01:00 PM.

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    ok, enough trying to beat each others opinions/facts into the ground. say it once, or twice at the most, then move on. and keep the insults towards each other at a level of zero.

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