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New Tic Master Cyl with current LS7 Clutch setup?

This is a discussion on New Tic Master Cyl with current LS7 Clutch setup? within the Manual Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; I have ~5k miles on a new LS7 Clutch setup, new stock Master, Slave & T/O bearing and have problems ...

  1. #1
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    New Tic Master Cyl with current LS7 Clutch setup?

    I have ~5k miles on a new LS7 Clutch setup, new stock Master, Slave & T/O bearing and have problems shifting at higher than 4000rpm. It also has a speed bleeder installed and me and the dealer have both bled the shit out of the system without any improvement.

    I did a seach on this and found a few people who had problems with upgrading to the Tick Master Cylinder after breaking in their LS7 clutch setup with the stock master cylinder, and was wondering if this was the exception or the rule?

    So my question is: Have any of you currently running the LS7 setup cure your shifting problems by upgrading to a Tick Adj MC? Thanks in advance for your help.

    Nick
    Last edited by NCal; 05-06-2012 at 02:05 PM. Reason: MC in place of MS

  2. #2
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    The LS7 clutch setup has had quite a few complaints about this very issue. The LS7 setup is a self adjusting clutch ( sorry don't care for that) and the adjustable master causes an issue. Although I don't see how or what.

    Not sure why you are having a high rpm shifting issue, but mine was the same way until a installed an adjustable master cylinder (on a non adjustable clutch) and that cured 90% of it. I prefer to setup the pedal feel to my liking rather than have a clutch do it automatically, and that might be where the problem lies, with 2 things working against each other.

    Not sure what to tell you. I won't be going with an LS7 clutch on my next install for this very reason.

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    If I'd known about this issue last year I wouldn't have bought the LS7 package. I'm trying to figure it out too. What I can't get my head around is where the incompatability lies. It shouldn't matter that the Pressure Plate adjusts, since the Tick is a set it & forget it and not activly adjusting. It shouldn't interfere with the PP adjustment as long as it isn't set so far out at any time where it damages (over-extends) the PP or Slave Cylinder.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your experience. I've read about 2 others who've had the same experiences. I'm hoping to hear from people with the LS7 package who have installed the Tick and cured their shifting problems. I mean, does it work sometimes or is it doomed to fail each and every time? I don't want to waste $300+ on something that isn't going to work. I want to count the success' vs the failures to see what the odds are. If nothing else, this will help others decide on which clutch package to buy. When I asked Tick about this, Chris said over the phone that he hadn't heard of any compatability issues between the LS7 PP and their adjustable master cylinder.

    So, has anyone with a previously installed LS7 clutch package successfully use the Tick adj MC to cure their shifting problems? Any success stories or is it all bad news.

    TIA

    Nick
    Last edited by NCal; 05-06-2012 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Tick MC in place of Tick MS

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCal View Post
    If I'd known about this issue last year I wouldn't have bought the LS7 package. I'm trying to figure it out too. What I can't get my head around is where the incompatability lies. It shouldn't matter that the Pressure Plate adjusts, since the Tick is a set it & forget it and not activly adjusting. It shouldn't interfere with the PP adjustment as long as it isn't set so far out at any time where it damages (over-extends) the PP or Slave Cylinder.


    Nick
    Those are my thoughts too, so I don't understand the incompatability issue myself. There were a couple of threads here about it though several months back, one in particular about this very issue and the problems he was having with the adjustable pressure plate. I seem to remember a very upset individual over the whole ordeal . It was enough to convince me to stay with the aftermarket setups like Centerforce or Ram. They have always treated me excellent in the past.

    Maybe he will chime in or possibly a search could help.

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    James Bond Spikito's Avatar
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    i dont think its an LS7 issue, i think the the OEM slave, people fix it with the "drill mod" or a tick master, i had this problem, swapped both, and never had the problem since

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Those are my thoughts too, so I don't understand the incompatability issue myself. There were a couple of threads here about it though several months back, one in particular about this very issue and the problems he was having with the adjustable pressure plate. I seem to remember a very upset individual over the whole ordeal . It was enough to convince me to stay with the aftermarket setups like Centerforce or Ram. They have always treated me excellent in the past.

    Maybe he will chime in or possibly a search could help.
    Yeah I hear ya. If I had known this before hand I would have went with the Monster 2 or Diamond clutch packages myself. I mean, why buy trouble?

    I do remember those posts from my search, along with people who installed the Tick MC and were very happy with it. What I couldn't find was anyone specifying that they had a broken-in LS7 PP before installing the Tick MC to successfully cure their shifting issues. I'm sure there are some out there (or maybe not?) I'm looking to find out if there are any success stories to offset the 2 or 3 people who've had problems.

    So LS7 clutch package owners, tell us if a new Tick MC cured you shifting problems (or not?). Help future clutch buyers decide which clutch package is for them. If Tick would chime in that would be great!

    TIA

    Nick
    Last edited by NCal; 05-06-2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: MC in place of MS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    i dont think its an LS7 issue, i think the the OEM slave, people fix it with the "drill mod" or a tick master, i had this problem, swapped both, and never had the problem since
    Thanks for the response Spikito. Were you running the LS7 clutch package at the time? I installed a new slave & master when I installed my LS7 clutch package. New everything in fact, including T/O bearing & pilot bushing. Did you solve your problem with new stock parts or with a Tick MC?

    Nick
    Last edited by NCal; 05-06-2012 at 02:02 PM. Reason: MC in place of MS (duh)

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    James Bond Spikito's Avatar
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    well i bought the car with a slipping clutch, and i also had the high RPM issue, so all at once i put in:

    LS7 clutch pack
    Tick adj master
    New T/O bearing
    OEM slave


    the issue with our stock set up is the hydraulic fluid doesnt move between the master and the slave fast enough, so when you shift from 1-2, the fluid moves to the slave, and when you shift from 2-3, the fluid hasnt had time to move back into the master, so you have a dead pedal.

    so in reality, the issue has to do with the speed of the shift, not the RPMs, it just so happens that fast shifting tends to occur at high RPMs.

    theres a certain fitting that some people remove and drill out from like 1/4 to 3/8, and helps a lot...the other, more effective option is to just replace it all, which is what i did.

    soon after I also put in a pro 5.0 with a lou's short stick, and I've never missed a shift since. that was about 18 months ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    well i bought the car with a slipping clutch, and i also had the high RPM issue, so all at once i put in:

    LS7 clutch pack
    Tick adj master
    New T/O bearing
    OEM slave
    And there's the key. When you install the Tick and new LS7 clutch package at the same time there aren't any problems. I wish I had done that. The 2 people who reported the problems did the LS7 PP/clutch break-in miles with the stock MC, then installed the Tick afterwards.

    I've had this shifting problem about every 2 years or so (even with the Drill Mod), and the Ranger clutch fluid swap/bleed usually fixed it, until about a year ago that is. So I installed the LS7 Clutch package, new MC, Slave & T/O bearing to cure it. New everything. When the problem persisted, I figured that I just got a weak stock master cylinder and wanted to upgrade it to the Tick adjustable MC.

    So, I'm looking for those who added the Tick MC to an already broken in LS7 clutch package to solve their shifting problems.

    Thanks for your response bud.

    Nick

  10. #10
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    i dont think its an LS7 issue, i think the the OEM slave, people fix it with the "drill mod" or a tick master, i had this problem, swapped both, and never had the problem since
    It's the self adjusting pressure plate of the LS7 setup. It works fine with the stock master cylinder, but when you throw the adjustable master in there is when the issues popped up for the individuals that were complaining about it a while back.

    I'm just not a fan of a self adjusting pressure plate myself. I'd rather have that control.

  11. #11
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCal View Post
    Yeah I hear ya. If I had known this before hand I would have went with the Monster 2 or Diamond clutch packages myself. I mean, why buy trouble?

    I do remember those posts from my search, along with people who installed the Tick MC and were very happy with it. What I couldn't find was anyone specifying that they had a broken-in LS7 PP before installing the Tick MC to successfully cure their shifting issues. I'm sure there are some out there (or maybe not?) I'm looking to find out if there are any success stories to offset the 2 or 3 people who've had problems.

    So LS7 clutch package owners, tell us if a new Tick MC cured you shifting problems (or not?). Help future clutch buyers decide which clutch package is for them. If Tick would chime in that would be great!

    TIA

    Nick
    You sound just like the other guy that posted here,,,if he had known of the issue he would have never bought the LS7 setup.

    This very person installed the adjustable master cylinder "AFTER" he had run the LS7 clutch for a short period,,,,and I believe that's where the real problems occur.

    I believe most people install it all at the same time and everything is happy. I still say stick with a regular pressure plate and keep all your adjustment in one place (at the master). That's all the adjustment needed, then you can adjust to suit your particular driving needs. No sense in complicating the setup with an adjustable plate too (that you have no control over either).

  12. #12
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    well i bought the car with a slipping clutch, and i also had the high RPM issue, so all at once i put in:

    LS7 clutch pack
    Tick adj master
    New T/O bearing
    OEM slave


    the issue with our stock set up is the hydraulic fluid doesnt move between the master and the slave fast enough, so when you shift from 1-2, the fluid moves to the slave, and when you shift from 2-3, the fluid hasnt had time to move back into the master, so you have a dead pedal.

    so in reality, the issue has to do with the speed of the shift, not the RPMs, it just so happens that fast shifting tends to occur at high RPMs.

    theres a certain fitting that some people remove and drill out from like 1/4 to 3/8, and helps a lot...the other, more effective option is to just replace it all, which is what i did.

    soon after I also put in a pro 5.0 with a lou's short stick, and I've never missed a shift since. that was about 18 months ago
    Yep the drill mod is still a necessity. That slow clutch action (thanks to the small orifice) doesn't help the shifting issues at all. It's GM's way of cutting down warranty claims by softening the clutch action.

  13. #13
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    Anybody else? Really? Nobody running the LS7 clutch setup has ever solved their shifting problems by upgrading to a Tick Adj MC?

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    James Bond Spikito's Avatar
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    well thats what were saying, the tick adj fixes it, its just that most of us do the clutch and M/C at the same time

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    I have the ls7 clutch and GM master drilled, no shifting problems here. I didn't have the extra at the time to put down on a tick, it would be nice to be able to adjust a bit.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Like Spikito mentioned, I believe everyone that has had success with both the LS7 clutch and the adjustable master cylinder have done the install at the same time.

    I understand your question,,,,you want to install the adjustable master cylinder after the fact (you've got some miles on the LS7 clutch already).
    That's where the complaints have come from. I understand your frustration, since the people that put themselves in that exact scenario haven't chimed in.

    All I could suggest is go with the adjustable master (all 4th gens should have had that from the factory in my opinion anyway). That's where clutch adjustments should be taking place (not the pressure plate), And if it works you're golden. I can't see a reason why it wouldn't, but if it doesn't, I'd ditch the adjustable pressure plate idea if it were me. Probably not what you want to hear, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Like Spikito mentioned, I believe everyone that has had success with both the LS7 clutch and the adjustable master cylinder have done the install at the same time.

    I understand your question,,,,you want to install the adjustable master cylinder after the fact (you've got some miles on the LS7 clutch already).
    That's where the complaints have come from. I understand your frustration, since the people that put themselves in that exact scenario haven't chimed in.

    All I could suggest is go with the adjustable master (all 4th gens should have had that from the factory in my opinion anyway). That's where clutch adjustments should be taking place (not the pressure plate), And if it works you're golden. I can't see a reason why it wouldn't, but if it doesn't, I'd ditch the adjustable pressure plate idea if it were me. Probably not what you want to hear, sorry.
    Well, whether I want to hear it or not, it is what it is. No sense in getting pissed off at reality . So it doesn't sound like anybody here has made it work. With all the Tick MCs being bought by LS1 owners I really thought I'd get more responses, good or bad. Sounds like I have 2 choices, Drill Mod my current MC or install the Tick and see if it works. If neither one helps I'll swap out the LS7 setup and move on to a Monster or Diamond clutch setup. One thing I will do is post my results. That way someone else searching for LS7 clutch info can read this and know the LS7's limitations.

    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    Nick

  18. #18
    James Bond Spikito's Avatar
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    I dont think youre understanding what were saying...the clutch isnt the issue....you can throw any clutch made in your car, diamond, RAM, textrallia, SPEC, LS7. it doesnt matter. the issue lies in the hydraulics (slave cylinder, master cylinder, and lines) replace the master (prefered) or do the drill mod (cost effective) and you should be good, regardless of clutch.

    lots of guys have a stock clutch, do the drill mod, and are good to go. it really boils down to fixing the root of the problem, or just "making it work"

  19. #19
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCal View Post
    Well, whether I want to hear it or not, it is what it is. No sense in getting pissed off at reality . So it doesn't sound like anybody here has made it work. With all the Tick MCs being bought by LS1 owners I really thought I'd get more responses, good or bad. Sounds like I have 2 choices, Drill Mod my current MC or install the Tick and see if it works. If neither one helps I'll swap out the LS7 setup and move on to a Monster or Diamond clutch setup. One thing I will do is post my results. That way someone else searching for LS7 clutch info can read this and know the LS7's limitations.

    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    Nick
    I'd recommend the drill mod regardless of what you decide to do. That just allows the fluid to travel faster for more precise clutch action. What it won't do is affect the adjustment.

    My problem even after the drill mod and a new LS6 clutch several years back, was the clutch not disengaging far enough. Caused very sticky shifting, hard to even drive it. So an adjustable master went in to cure that issue. Assentually making the clutch adjustable where I felt comfortable with it. This also is a mod I recommend for anybody, as it's something that should have been OEM installed in my opinion.

    I hope it works out for you,,,and yes,,,please post back how the adjustable worked with a used LS7 setup. I haven't heard of one that worked with a used LS7 setup but the instances are so seldom it's unfortunate we don't have more information on it.

  20. #20
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    I dont think youre understanding what were saying...the clutch isnt the issue....you can throw any clutch made in your car, diamond, RAM, textrallia, SPEC, LS7. it doesnt matter. the issue lies in the hydraulics (slave cylinder, master cylinder, and lines) replace the master (prefered) or do the drill mod (cost effective) and you should be good, regardless of clutch.

    lots of guys have a stock clutch, do the drill mod, and are good to go. it really boils down to fixing the root of the problem, or just "making it work"
    The issue he is trying to get accross is installing an adjustable master "AFTER" the LS7 clutch has been installed and used. The few that I've seen try this,,,,didn't work. The LS7 clutch is very unique compared to the others you have listed, since it has a self adjusting pressure plate. For some reason this has caused issues for people that have added an adjustable master at a later point in time. Unfortunately a search doesn't turn up those old threads, and I don't recall what the incompatability was.

    In your instance I think you said you installed everything at the same time. I haven't heard of any problems doing it that way.

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