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Input shaft problems?

This is a discussion on Input shaft problems? within the Manual Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; Has anyone ever had a problem with their input shaft destroying damn near every slave cylinder? on the 5th one ...

  1. #1
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Input shaft problems?

    Has anyone ever had a problem with their input shaft destroying damn near every slave cylinder? on the 5th one since 2007. My trannny, clutch and slave cylinder all shit the bed in '07. Needless to say new tranny was installed and immediatley the next 2 slave cylinders installed (brand new) the slave cylinder throw out bearing "popped" I got it home and the tranny was removed yet again and a new clutch was installed.....car worked for 4 years and put 25k miles on the new tranny and then last year in 2011 the slave cylinder popped when i gunned it out of a autozone parking lot. Not only that but i believe i only had 15k miles on tranny when the 4th gear started popping out upon acceleration. fastforward again, and they replaced the slave cylinder 2 more times, and the same thing happened...slave cylinder popped. and they would pop maybe 1 to 2 miles down the road....the shop that originally pulled it said that the input shaft could be the reason why it kept destroying the slave cylinders....so any suggestions or ideas as to what it could be? or is it the input shaft? btw after removing it and inspecting the input shaft it had a little play in it. Also another note to add. The slave cylinder that did last for those 4 years and 25k miles was worn to hell on the inside before its detonation.
    Last edited by RedFenix_68; 10-29-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    I do not believe you should have any play on the input shaft. I do not know what else to tell you. I had my T56 rebuilt last year and everything is fine except I forgot to do the drill mod. Good luck, I know someone on this site will have a better answer for you.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    could need a shim on the slave.

  4. #4
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002ssslp View Post
    I do not believe you should have any play on the input shaft. I do not know what else to tell you. I had my T56 rebuilt last year and everything is fine except I forgot to do the drill mod. Good luck, I know someone on this site will have a better answer for you.
    ya i think you are right. i have been doing a lot of research lately on the t-56. i thought about tearing one apart. a lot of people try and say they are so hard, and this and that. as i do believe some of what they say, honestly there are a lot of mechanics with no degrees who pull these things apart and put them together, i am sure just like anything else it takes patience and a good step by step process.

  5. #5
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Coming from my experiance from working with other type manual transmissions RWD and FWD.

    The input shaft should'nt have any play up or down or side to side or in and out.

    To me, it sounds like the pilot bearing is/was hammered which can let the clutch disk get clamped off center.

    This can put a bind on the input shaft. Not good.

    You can rebuild the trany over and over or replace it over and over, but if the pilot bearing gets over looked each time you're asking for trouble out of every trany you bolt up new or used.

    The pilot bearing keeps the input shaft in line with the engines crank.

    IMHO if you do deside to rebuild personally I'd be suspicious of your trany case integrity now especially at the input shaft bearing seats.

    Just my .02

  6. #6
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Coming from my experiance from working with other type manual transmissions RWD and FWD.

    The input shaft should'nt have any play up or down or side to side or in and out.

    To me, it sounds like the pilot bearing is/was hammered which can let the clutch disk get clamped off center.

    This can put a bind on the input shaft. Not good.

    You can rebuild the trany over and over or replace it over and over, but if the pilot bearing gets over looked each time you're asking for trouble out of every trany you bolt up new or used.

    The pilot bearing keeps the input shaft in line with the engines crank.

    IMHO if you do deside to rebuild personally I'd be suspicious of your trany case integrity now especially at the input shaft bearing seats.

    Just my .02
    ok i see what your saying and that makes sense. i know this is going to sound a little un knowledgeable but that is obviously why we have these forums, to learn and to also teach. my next qyestion is, is the pilot bearing actually in the clutch? or does the clutch rest over top of the pilot bearing, and when attaching the tranny back to the car, you end up sliding the input shaft back into the pilot bearing? please correct me if i am wrong. bc i would like to have some idea of what i need to change or order to fix the problem so that it does not erupt in another 25k or less miles. btw the input shaft has plenty of play, up and down and side to side...so with that being said i will have to tell ticks performance that that bad boy will have to get removed :/....ugh 1300$ plus another 200$ now for a new input shaft. hahaha well better now then down the road. wait you also talked about the integrity of the tranny case....so by me not getting a new input shaft would not solve the play in the shaft? ugh
    Last edited by RedFenix_68; 10-30-2012 at 12:24 PM.

  7. #7
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    The pilot bearing is pressed into the back of your crank shaft.

    There is a nipple race at the very end of the input shaft before the splined portion.

    This nipple goes into and rides on the pilot bearing within the crank.

    Without it or if worn you can tear up a trany pretty quick especially under a load.

    It looks like this:



    And it goes into the back side of the crank shaft. You can see it here in the center of this LS crank that has the flywheel removed.


  8. #8
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    The pilot bearing is pressed into the back of your crank shaft.

    There is a nipple race at the very end of the input shaft before the splined portion.

    This nipple goes into and rides on the pilot bearing within the crank.

    Without it or if worn you can tear up a trany pretty quick especially under a load.

    It looks like this:

    Click for full size

    And it goes into the back side of the crank shaft. You can see it here in the center of this LS crank that has the flywheel removed.

    Click for full size
    the wobble from the input shaft is not that bad to where it concerns me to that point. i will have to keep an eye out for the pilot bearing and check that out....quick question, if i had to replace pilot bearing, is that or would that be the only thing?

  9. #9
    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFenix_68 View Post
    the wobble from the input shaft is not that bad to where it concerns me to that point. i will have to keep an eye out for the pilot bearing and check that out....quick question, if i had to replace pilot bearing, is that or would that be the only thing?
    yes if you need to replace the bearing then all you would need is to pop the old one out preferably with a puller and tap the new one in... does your inpuit shaft tip have any marks on the end? usually when the bearing goes it will start making noise and if left unchecked will mark up the tip of the input shaft.

    as far as rebuilding the t56 goes, I had mine rebuilt and honestly i wouldnt be afraid to do it now if it needs to happen again in the (distant) future. as long as the bearing are fine you can leave them on the shaft and this allows you to skip the end play adjustments. they really arent that complicated inside if you have the service manual and some basic know how.

  10. #10
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird555 View Post
    yes if you need to replace the bearing then all you would need is to pop the old one out preferably with a puller and tap the new one in... does your inpuit shaft tip have any marks on the end? usually when the bearing goes it will start making noise and if left unchecked will mark up the tip of the input shaft.

    as far as rebuilding the t56 goes, I had mine rebuilt and honestly i wouldnt be afraid to do it now if it needs to happen again in the (distant) future. as long as the bearing are fine you can leave them on the shaft and this allows you to skip the end play adjustments. they really arent that complicated inside if you have the service manual and some basic know how.
    hey thanks. I will check the input shaft and the pilot bearing when i get home. You know it is funny that ever since they put that transmission in the car there was always a little noise....whenever the car was in neutral just chillin the car would have a slight tink noise....when i looked at the input shaft the other day and moved it around....same damn sound....well at least when new tranny goes up i will not have to worry about that damn sound anymore. also pisses me off about the shop that put it in. Great guys there, but just their m,echanic knowledge and mentality was horrible

  11. #11
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    this is why i called my car nightmare....seemed like every turn i was making or doing on this car was leading me down a dark alley....but at the time my lack of knowledge and know how were really my nightmare...not the car...but the name is sticking with her

    - - - Updated - - -

    this is why i will research my ass off from now on so i do not look stupid to myself or anyone else.

  12. #12
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFenix_68 View Post
    the wobble from the input shaft is not that bad to where it concerns me to that point. i will have to keep an eye out for the pilot bearing and check that out....quick question, if i had to replace pilot bearing, is that or would that be the only thing?
    Pretty much yes.. If you do it yourself just be sure to be carefull not to drive the crank shaft oil galley plug into the crank or you'll have a whole new set of issues.

    As a personal preferance I have never reused an old pilot bearing or bushing.

    That does'nt mean you can't just I do not.

    I am not aware of the allowable input shaft play for the t56.

    However, I can tell you personally, I don't install any manual trany with questionable input shaft side play, or any play for that matter.

    For instance none of the old style 4 and 5 speeds I've installed had any input play, non of the 5 and 6 speeds on my bench now have any at all.

    However they are brand new units not rebuilt.. I can only rock the shafts left to right between the gear pitch.

    Again, I don't know what the allowable input shaft play specs are for the T-56 so it could be just fine.

    The fact that you stated your throw out bearing is so heavily worn, and you have replaced a number of clutches and throw outs at such low mileage intervals makes me wonder about the cause and the input shaft play though.
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-31-2012 at 08:07 PM.

  13. #13
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Pretty much yes.. If you do it yourself just be sure to be carefull not to drive the crank shaft oil galley plug into the crank or you'll have a whole new set of issues.

    As a personal preferance I have never reused an old pilot bearing or bushing.

    That does'nt mean you can't just I do not.

    I am not aware of the allowable input shaft play for the t56.

    However, I can tell you personally, I don't install any manual trany with questionable input shaft side play, or any play for that matter.

    For instance none of the old style 4 and 5 speeds I've installed had any input play, non of the 5 and 6 speeds on my bench now have any at all.

    However they are brand new units not rebuilt.. I can only rock the shafts left to right between the gear pitch.

    Again, I don't know what the allowable input shaft play specs are for the T-56 so it could be just fine.

    The fact that you stated your throw out bearing is so heavily worn, and you have replaced a number of clutches and throw outs at such low mileage intervals makes me wonder about the cause and the input shaft play though.

    ya from the general opinions on here it seems like the input shaft is not allowed to have any free play

  14. #14
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
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    well i have decided to walk down this road and tear apart the tranny im going to post up a forum about it..well i might but it looks like there are plenty on here. i have still been able to get the car up and pull the clutch and check the pilot bearing.

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