buying new clutch, advice needed

bics56 · 08-23-2005, 06:54 PM

I have a 99 WS6 and am replacing the clutch pretty soon. I planned on getting the Ram Power Grip stage 3. Is this over kill for my car...I dont want ANY chatter at all. Now I only have a cat back and lid. Soon I may get headers and pulley. I am going to order very soon and want to get the best clutch for my set up. BTW I am also going to replace the slave (01+) and do the drill mod to help out the hydros a little. I am ordering very soon and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

**third_shift|studios** · 08-23-2005, 07:06 PM

get a spec 2/3 man, the Ram will get burned out-so i hear from the people who replaced my clutch and they are like LS1 gods here in cincinnati. Chatter goes away after about 900 miles and only rears it's head if you are lurching in slow ass traffic, or slipping the clutch....which leads me to another thing DON'T SLIP IT unless it's in slow ass traffic or on a hill. It took some learning but the Spec3 is for dumping, not slipping. Hope my advice helps. Seroiusly people focus too much on the chatter, and i can honestly say i was one of them-until i bought one. Now it's over kill for me but like you i plan on modding in the future anyhow.

good luck!

stealthtransam · 08-23-2005, 08:52 PM

I tried 4 differnt spec cluthes and nothing but chatter from all of then. And he is right if you slip it you break it. In my opnion the Hubs are poor at best on a spec but the discs do grap

**KP1** · 08-24-2005, 05:09 PM

The Z06 clutch kit is around $400 for the flywheel, disc and pressure plate. You will not have chatter and it should hold for your basically stock car. Now, if you're planning trips to the track with sticky tires and high RPM clutch dumps, you may need something better, but very few people can tell you with a straight face that you will not experience "any" chatter with the aftermarket stuff. I have a spec stage I clutch, pressure plate, and fidanza flywheel, all installed new and I thought it was going to rattle my car to pieces when I first started driving it. I have 4K miles on it and it does hold well, BUT IT STILL HAS A MODERATE CHATTER. My local LSx guru recommends the RAM HD for bolt-on cars. My car had a Z06 clutch and it lasted 34K miles w/o one bit of chatter. You can't beat the Z06 for a daily driver IMO.

bics56 · 08-25-2005, 04:06 AM

I am leaning towards the Z06 now...I was told with a 01+ slave and drill mod it should hold pretty good. I may do headers and Z06 cam in the future so I don't think that would be too much rwhp for that cluch.

**KP1** · 08-25-2005, 05:01 AM

It's a good relatively inexpensive alternative. Headers run through the Y into the single pipe to the rear muffler doesn't do anything for me. And I don't like the really loud exhaust setups because my car is a convertible. If I had your car I would get the LS6 intake before or even instead of headers. I think I've seen dyno results that indicate a substantial rwhp increase over the LS1 intake. I've seen them sell for as little as $250 but usually around $350 plus shipping - used. Long tube headers have caused a lot of people problems with boiling clutch fluid because the line to the slave cyl is too close to the exhaust and my local LSx guy says the shorties are useless.

Good Luck!

**BIG D's SS** · 08-25-2005, 05:09 AM

My car has got a spec stage 3 and the chatter is bad if you don't know learn how to drive it. But you don't have to worry about clutch slippage. My buddy has got one in his 99 SS and it has 383, all bolt ons, and nitros and that is what he runs no problems there.

bics56 · 08-25-2005, 06:13 PM

I am looking for something very streetable but can stand up to taking it to the track a few times/year. I don't see my car going over 400 RWHP so I dont think I need anything too crazy. But I don't want to spen all this money and go to the track a few times and have mny clutch overheating or slipping. I need a happy medium clutch, and I won't gfo spec I know a lot of people who told me many bad things about them. I know every clutch peopel have problems but it seems I hear the worst about spec.

**ibanez7** · 08-25-2005, 07:08 PM

spec makes fine clutches. If they didnt many performance shops like speed inc. wouldnt carry the brand. Remember people will bitch about something before praising it.

to stay cheap, spec, ram and centerforce are really the only way to go. Spec being the most popular. I know many who love there spec clutch. For me I'm looking I'm at 400rwhp at 80,000 miles still on the factory clutch!!

I will buy a spec when my factory craps out.

Also remember its not a bad thing if the clutch chatter, a built up rearend will chatter too. You just have to learn how to drive it.

Many people claim they can drive fast and hard, but in reallity all they do is drive abusive and burn up clutches, trannys and rearendend. Drive hard but do it with skill!!

**KP1** · 08-26-2005, 06:22 AM

Chatter isn't a bad thing? A built up rear end will chatter? I hope you are saying that tongue & cheek. bics56 is saying he wants something that doesn't chatter and is very streetable. Now then, in addition to chatter, the SPEC clutch disc has been known to shatter and destroy clutch housings and fly through the floor right past the legs because the thing is made out of thin material. The Ram disc, on the other hand, is made of more substantial material and is not prone to such disaster. I have a Ram HD disc that I haven't installed yet so I can't comment on it as far as chatter goes. We'll see. If it does chatter I'll go back to the Z06. There isn't a single car that rolls off the floor new in which chatter is acceptible or "good". From Ford Focus to Lamborghini, the clutch engaggment is eiether absent of chatter or it's wrong. If it's under warranty and it chartters, they replace it because as the owner you demand it. The SPEC products use a aggressive material on their discs rather than a pressure plate with more clamping force, and therefore, the result is chatter. The Z06 pressure plate uses more clamping force (I think. 25% more) and a primarily organic disc, and therefore, no chatter. I don't know about you, but it is annoying to me when my car shimmies and my dash rattles because of a stinking clutch. If you put High Performance brake pads on your car and they shimmie it is unacceptible. I know it performs a different function, but why should a clutch be any different?

Now, as far a rear ends go, I'm guessing that when you say "built up" rear end you mean a rear end with a higher ratio such as a 3.73 or 4.10 instead of the stock 3.42 that comes in an M6. Rear ends do not chatter. They will clunk and whine if they are not installed properly and they will make sickening sounds when pieces of the ring or pinion break, but they do not chatter. A clutch chatter issue should be lessened with a higher gear ratio because the car will launch from a stand-still with less effort.

I don't intend to rip you ibanez7, but the question was - what clutch can I get that will not chatter but will handle my basically stock '99, and then maybe a few trips to the track? I have read hundreds of posts on LSx websites and there is only one clutch setup that can be said to be (consistently) w/o chatter that would be an upgrade for a '99 and that is the Z06. There are a bunch of posts in which guys will say the chatter of their aftermarket clutch is "acceptible", or it has gotten "better" after 400 miles, or "you can barely feel it", or "it's negligible", or if you launch at 2K RPM's it's "OK". But there's only one that doesn't chatter - ever, if it's installed properly, and that's the factory GM Z06 clutch. It isn't for everyone, and it can't stand up to repeated trips to the drag strip or slicks, but it is the best option for a person who wants a good setup for his basically stock or slightly modded LSx car. And as you pointed out, you have 80K on your factory clutch. I only got 40K out of mine. Show me someone, anyone who has 80K on their SPEC or RAM or Textralia or any one of those aftermarket performers. I don't neeed to look for other people who like their SPEC or don't like their SPEC. I know one person very intimately who installed a SPEC in his street-driven '02 M6 SOM SS convertible and wishes he had stuck with the Z06 clutch. MEEEE! Once again, I bought a Ram HD disc on the recommendation of my local LSx guru but I haven't installed it yet. If it doesn't chatter, I'll be right here on this site and all of the others saying so. If it does, I will quietly Z06 it.

Good luck bics56! If you do the install yourself, there are several good sites to help with the install such as install university. A friend or two can make it much easier. A new pilot bearing is recommended and cleanliness is imperative. A couple of greasy finger prints are all it takes to screw up an otherwise good installation. If you have access to a lift, by all means, take advantage of it. I didn't have a lift for my clutch install and because it was such a PITA, I bought a kwicklift so my future projects will be easier and safer.

bics56 · 08-27-2005, 11:50 AM

Hey Thanks for the detailed advice it is appreciated. From the start I wanted to get ram b/c I heard it doesnt' really chatter and they hold up. But when I look at what i actually need I think I may go Z06 clutch. I may get a LS6 intake, Z06 cam, headers, and maybe a pulley...that should be good for 38X RWHP and I think the Z06 clutch would hold up well. I saw a kit on ebay for 350 + 35 for shipping that included Z06 pressure plate, Z06 clutch disc, Z06 flywheel, Z06 throwout bearing, and Z06 pilot bearing. Is this the best price I am going to find? I also want to get a 01+ slave cylinder and do the drill mod.

**KP1** · 08-27-2005, 02:40 PM

It is my understanding LUK manufactures the oem parts for GM and that the LUK clutch/kit is the same as the Z06. I have seen the parts packaged with GM part #s for less when someone buys a new one and decides to go another route, but $350 & $35 shiping is a good price for all of the parts you stated. The new GM slave is just one of those parts you have to bite the bullet on and get from someone like Beans or SDPC or GMPartsdirect. The drill mod is one of those things a lot of people do but I haven't found it to be necessary on my car. I think that may be because my master to slave line isn't right up against headers and I used sislicon high temp brake fluid in my system which many people say you should not do.