When does yours shift?

**TLS_Addict** · 08-23-2010, 06:10 PM

Yeah the M6 guys are going to say "Whenever I decide

" but this question is for the A4 boys.

My car has the 2.73 gears and when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd gear the speedo is reading 95-96mph. That means that my car is only turning 5548 rpms using a 25.6 inch tall tire (274/40/17), 2.73 gears, and tranny gear of 1.63. This just seems likes its shifting a little short to me. Is this normal or should my tranny be shifting at a higher rpm? The rev limiter on my LS1 GTo M6 car was I think 6,250 rpms and I figured this would be much the same.

I am thinking that perhaps to have it tuned to shift a little higher but not sure if its a good idea. Thoughts? Thanks!

**Firebirdjones** · 08-23-2010, 07:03 PM

My auto when it was a bone stocker, would shift on the 1-2 at 5700 and the 2-3 right at 6,000. Never paid much attention to the mph, I have 3.23's.

At the track running like this, 13.70's at 102 mph is the best it would do (13.72 was the best time and most runs were 101 mph). The 1-2 shift was accuring way too early for my taste, considering the crappy 3.06 first gear that kills the rpm when you hit second with a 1.62 gear. So the first thing I did was slowly bump up the shift rpm on the 1-2, I left the 2-3 alone.

I eventually got my 1-2 shift to happen at 6100 which seemed to be a sweet spot for it. The car picked up to a best of 13.60 and tickled 103 mph.

The car got faster as I moved it up, and I would have liked to see more, but the stock cam won't allow it, and I was getting close to the limiter anyway. Once in a while I'll bump it on the 1-2 shift if I spin the tires at all.

**TLS_Addict** · 08-23-2010, 07:32 PM

Yeah the 1st to 2nd is about the same as well. Are they programmed to shift differently in the Z28 vs SS and the Formula vs WS6? I will look otmorrow ot see where its shifts from 1st to 2nd. You are correct, especially with my 2.73 gears the 1st to 2nd shift is pretty bad....lol Seems to drop off a lot more than I would like. My last automatic had 3.90 gears so yeah I miss that....lol

**Firebirdjones** · 08-23-2010, 07:47 PM

I don't know if the shift points were different for Z's and SS's verses birds and TA's. But I would think not.

Since mine is an SS I would say it probably shifts like any other LS 4th gen. I know mine couldn't have been any better, since it short shifted on the 1-2

**TLS_Addict** · 08-23-2010, 07:51 PM

I will check my 1st to 2nd shift tomorrow first thing. lol

I guess its something I will just have to have tuned in to the new PCM....

**67CamaroRSSS** · 08-23-2010, 08:12 PM

Factory tach isn't the most reliable thing to use. To know what your WOT shift point is you'll have to data log it. I'm guesing someone has monkeyed around with it (sounds like a HyperTech Power Programmer screw up when reflashed back to stock).

Does it stutter at that rpm or does it just shift to the next gear? Car should have approx 5700-6000 WOT shift point with 6100 as the fuel cutout (rev limiter).

Also, did your car come with Z-rated tires? Not all Z28's came with the Z-rated tires as they were an option. Especially the 2.73 geared cars (all 3.23 cars were Z rated). Less capable tires (I believe they were 235 vs 245 wide with an H vs Z rating) equals a less capable car (lower fuel cutoff at top speed).

**TLS_Addict** · 08-23-2010, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Factory tach isn't the most reliable thing to use. To know what your WOT shift point is you'll have to data log it. I'm guesing someone has monkeyed around with it (sounds like a HyperTech Power Programmer screw up when reflashed back to stock).

Prior owner told me the computer was locked when it was dyno tuned. It has the SLP intake wiht K&N filter, the smooth coupler piece between teh MAF and the TB, edelbrock headers, NGK plugs with 10mm wires, high flow cats, and a Flow Master cat back. I will see if I can contact him and get the dyno sheet, I swear he said he had it somewhere. He and the prior 2 owners are from near by. The 2nd owner (as was told to me) purchased the car from someone at GM who already had the modifications done to it, minus the plugs and wires. Either way, I can get a new PCM from FROST and re-tune it. The car cant be far off because it runs great and I am averaging 25mpgs with all sorts of driving. Worst I have gotten with it in a month is 23 mpgs and that was LOTS of in town driving.

Well, the factory tach is shoing about 5700-5800 but the speed indicates something else if you do the math yourself. Like I said, doing the math it shows that I shifting at 5548 instead of the indicated 5700-5800 rpms.

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Does it stutter at that rpm or does it just shift to the next gear? Car should have approx 5700-6000 WOT shift point with 6100 as the fuel cutout (rev limiter).

There is no stutter what so ever anywhere. The car pulls extremely hard all the way to the shift points.

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Also, did your car come with Z-rated tires? Not all Z28's came with the Z-rated tires as they were an option. Especially the 2.73 geared cars (all 3.23 cars were Z rated). Less capable tires (I believe they were 235 vs 245 wide with an H vs Z rating) equals a less capable car (lower fuel cutoff at top speed).

Couldnt tell you, it has 5-spoke ZR1 style rims on it with 275/40/17s all the way around. I am not sure though what the stock tires/wheels were my friend. I didnt know they tuned them differently for the tire sizes.

**TLS_Addict** · 08-23-2010, 09:56 PM

67CamaroRSSS.....I have a 1st gen as well! Its a 69 X11 code NON SS car.

**98 t/a vert** · 08-23-2010, 11:05 PM

door tag will tell you what tires it came with...

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2010, 08:03 AM

Jim is right, you'll have to data log it, record it and go back to watch it and find out exactly where the car is shifting. That's how I did mine.
Since I was stretching out the 1-2 shift on mine I also bumped up the mph programmed for a 2-1 downshift so the car wouldn't hang in second gear at slow speeds when the throttle was matted. If I remember right, since I went from a 5700 rpm shift point to 6100, I moved up about 4-5 mph, so I bumped the downshift command the same amount.

If you do a Frost mail order tune, I'm sure he has that scienced out and he'll make it shift where it runs the best.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 08-24-2010, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

67CamaroRSSS.....I have a 1st gen as well! Its a 69 X11 code NON SS car.

Nice! X11 = Style Trim which is the chrome trim on the wheel wells, drip rails, gills and on the tail lights.

My 67 started out as a 327/210 with a PG. I know this as it has a V8 VIN along with a PG code on the trim tag on the firewall. When I bought it it had no engine or tranny. That was back in 1987. It did have PS, PDB, Rally wheels, Comfort Tilt steering wheel, floor shift with console, tinted windows all around, interior decor group, exterior molding group, drivers side remote control mirror and the reason I bought it: power windows. That coupled with K-K (Emerald Turquoise) paint and Parchment/Black (white deluxe) interior makes for a fairly rare combo. I went with a BBC, TH400 and a real 67 12 bolt (has the factory traction bar attachment point) that I found in the wrecking yard back in the early 80's. I added (or will add - all 67 parts): 5500 rpm tach, gauges, AM/FM (mono), RS equipment (front and rear), fold down rear seat and head rest bucket seats. I call it my loaded boat.

**TLS_Addict** · 08-25-2010, 10:41 AM

Looks like by my tach my car is shifting right at 5700-5800, its a little bit of a blurr as it gets to the shift point pretty quick. When it hits 2nd gear its a little doggy to me, the car needs gears. PAJEFF offered me his 3.23 stock set up to try, its tempting but I am still torn between 3.42 and the 3.73s.

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Nice! X11 = Style Trim which is the chrome trim on the wheel wells, drip rails, gills and on the tail lights.

Absolutely! sounds like what I have in the garage.

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

My 67 started out as a 327/210 with a PG. I know this as it has a V8 VIN along with a PG code on the trim tag on the firewall. When I bought it it had no engine or tranny. That was back in 1987. It did have PS, PDB, Rally wheels, Comfort Tilt steering wheel, floor shift with console, tinted windows all around, interior decor group, exterior molding group, drivers side remote control mirror and the reason I bought it: power windows. That coupled with K-K (Emerald Turquoise) paint and Parchment/Black (white deluxe) interior makes for a fairly rare combo. I went with a BBC, TH400 and a real 67 12 bolt (has the factory traction bar attachment point) that I found in the wrecking yard back in the early 80's. I added (or will add - all 67 parts): 5500 rpm tach, gauges, AM/FM (mono), RS equipment (front and rear), fold down rear seat and head rest bucket seats. I call it my loaded boat.

Very cool. My father and I just had a new engine and tranny built for the car. The tranny is built to hold 450hp though the engine is NOT that powerful. Tranny is a TH350 with a lower first gear so we dont need to run quite as much gear to get out of the hole. So we can stick with some 3.42 gears or even slightly more highway. We used an older 010 block, .030 bored over with a Stealth Al. Intake, 18 degree 2.02/1.6 heads with about 9.5:1 compression, and a if I recall the cam is split duration roughly .466/.488. So it should run halfway decent and make good usuable power.

This car is kinda neat.

Camaro Std. Sport Coupe made in Norwood Ohio, the Red Custom interior with Garnet Red exterior and a parchment vinyl top. Here is the kicker though.

Everything points to it being an LM1 car. The engine block and heads are 69 only and when researching this I found some cool stuff. The LM1 was used in less than 4% of Camaros in 1969. All of them are supposed to be Manual tranny cars, mine is an auto on the column. All of them are to have a posi rear, mine is an open rear, all of them are to have multi-leaf rear suspension, mine has mono leaf. Not sure if this one "slipped through" the cracks or if its a bogus car but I really dont think so.

So far I got new bumpers, spoilers, grill stiffener, batter box, and cowl hood. The car is from Texas and was purchased new in Oklahoma so the body is in nice shape and very little rust anywhere. Mileage shows I think either 82k or 88k. I got it from a guy in the military, he drove it up from texas and when he was shipped to Iraq he didnt have a use for the car anymore and was behind on his bills.

I have a 3.42 complete posi rear from a 1970-1981 Camaro but I guess I would have to relocate the hangers for the springs as well as its 1" wider on each side so I would need some funky wheels....lol I guess best bet is to find a 67-69 rear or a 71-74 Nova rear. I guess from what another member said they are the same. My dad and I want to put the car back to the original color, possibly swap the interior to a black vinyl, put the vinyl top back on, add the spoilers and the cowl hood, and just make it a nice driver. The original hood is in great shape, only issue is it has holes in it from hood pins.......not a fan of those through a stock original hood.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-25-2010, 04:44 PM

Ya it's hard to track that 1-2 shift on the factory tach. I even have to slow the log runs way down so I can watch it slowly on the computer screen, because in standard motion it happens too fast on their too,,,,or maybe I'm just getting old.

1st gens are cool. I'm doing a frame off on our X-33 69 RS Z28.
You are correct in your rearend dilema. 70-81 rears are 2 inches wider overall than the 67-69 camaro rears. For the same width and to broaden your search you can go with 68-74 nova rears. But the 8.5 inch 10 bolts didn't start until 71. Before that the 10 bolts were of the 8.2 variety. Another side note is leaf springs that get kinda tricky.
Only the SS Novas had multi leaf up through 72, and from 73 on they all had multi leaf. 71 was the last year for the 12 bolt in the Nova SS, and it had multi leaf. A non 71 SS would have an 8.5 inch 10 bolt with mono leafs.
Then in 72 the Nova SS used the 8.5 inch 10 bolts, but with multi leafs, the standard novas still had mono leaf 8.5's. In 73 the multi leafs went uniform accross the board.
I have several here, including a hard to find 8.5 72 Nova SS 10bolt with multi leaf perches and a Oct 71 build date. Several 12 bolts here for both 1st and 2nd gens that are all multi leaf.
Hope that doesn't confuse ya. So watching the spring perches will give you an idea of what you are looking at. You'll have to decide if you want to keep those mono's on the car, or go multi leaf. They do make spacers that fit between the mono leaf and a multi leaf spring perch if you want to go that route.

**TLS_Addict** · 08-25-2010, 05:04 PM

I want to swap the car over to multi leaf. I am assuming the car will sit lower if I use a multi-leaf rear in a mono leaf car? Plan to go with a multi-leaf though and maybe I can find a multi-leaf rear to go in it....lol If not I will have to monkey with it!

As for my car. It runs so good....I filled up yesterday and the mileage was 24.77. Not bad I must say!

**Young11b** · 08-25-2010, 05:04 PM

I have 3.73 gears, 1-2 gear about 40 mph, 2-3 75mph and 3-D 120mph

**Firebirdjones** · 08-25-2010, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

I want to swap the car over to multi leaf. I am assuming the car will sit lower if I use a multi-leaf rear in a mono leaf car? Plan to go with a multi-leaf though and maybe I can find a multi-leaf rear to go in it....lol If not I will have to monkey with it!

As for my car. It runs so good....I filled up yesterday and the mileage was 24.77. Not bad I must say!

I don't know if it will sit lower or not, there were different versions of multi leafs back then, with 4 or 5 leafs depending on the application and the given spring rates. I've been back and forth with my 71 ventura (just call it a nova for the sake of easy)
It originally came with a mono leaf 8.5 inch 10 bolt. I also have a 12 bolt out of a 69 Z28 (long story) complete with new 69 Z28 GM multi leafs that were bought back in the early 80's as NOS when GM still had stuff like that. They are of the 5 leaf variety. When this setup is installed under the ventura the car sits about 1 inch higher than it does with the stock factory 39 year old mono leaf springs/10 bolt combo. That is taking into account that the multi leaf setup is now a good 27-28 years old (actually 41 years but was NOS on the shelf until 82-83) So keep in mind they have sat under the car for a good 25 of those years too, so they may be a bit saggy now from what I remember. Right now I currently have the 10 bolt/mono leaf setup under the car.

Nowadays they make some killer mono leafs out of fiberglass, in any spring rate you want. Most guys running the cars in the Shootout small tire classes found these to work very well. Most will install them on multi leaf style rearends and just use the spacer.

I can tell you that the stock GM steel mono leafs (without traction bars) will wheel hop something fierce on every upshift

Not much spring rate and they wrap up easily. Traction bars put an end to that. The multi leafs aren't as bad for that (more spring rate)

**67CamaroRSSS** · 08-25-2010, 07:05 PM

To FBJ: I had Vette Brakes composite rear leaf springs on my 67 when I was drag racing it in the 80's and 90's. No wheel hop whatsoever but the car sat about 1.5-2.0" higher than stock. This helped with the 295 wide McCreary's also. I went back to monoleaf as I have a real 67 Camaro bolt with mono leaf spring perches. I had to use spacers with the composite springs so it didn't bend the shock mount plates on the bottom.

To TLS: LM1 engines could come with PG (HR), TH350 (HS) and 3 or 4-speed tranny's (HQ). Now you see why I question the "HT" in your PM...

**TLS_Addict** · 08-25-2010, 08:20 PM

Yes sir I do. As soon as I can get in to the car I will take a look at it and see whats going on.

From what I have been reading the LM1 should in most cases be a 4-speed and a few 3-speeds with limited automatics. Need to do some checking on the car. Regardless the new engine and tranny is ready to go....lol

BTW, how about shipping me some springs and a rear for my Camaro? lol

**TLS_Addict** · 08-25-2010, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by 98 t/a vert

door tag will tell you what tires it came with...

I am so retarded....lol I knew it was there but the whole 235 size sort of put a strange twist on my thinking. The tag shows 245/50/16 and I am unable to find anything on cars coming with 235 tires.

From what I can find the standard tires on the Z28 are 245/50/16 all weather Goodyear Eagle RS-A radials. The 245/50/16 directional F1s are a $225 option that is part of the $1,200 1LE performance Package. Oh, and this is coming from a 1999 Car & Driver Magazine. Yes I have about every single one of those issues for about 5 or 6 years. Along with 5 or 6 years up till last year of Cycle world....lol That stuff is good to rip out when some kids says his 2005 R6 will run 170mph stock.

So, how do I find out if my car came with the 1LE package?

The other day I was under my car just looking around at the exhaust and what not and I noticed that the front sway bar bushings look a little worn. Absolutly going to do this at 10 years of age, probably should change them sometime.