Transmission/First Gear Locked Tight
This is a discussion on Transmission/First Gear Locked Tight within the Automatic Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; I have recently rebuilt a 4L60E Transmission. There is under 10,000 miles on it. I put on a Billet Servo ...
09-05-2006, 03:49 PM #1
Transmission/First Gear Locked Tight
I have recently rebuilt a 4L60E Transmission. There is under 10,000 miles on it. I put on a Billet Servo kit and a Transgo Shift kit (using two of the washers) and a 3500 Stall. Everything worked great; loved it. After 500 miles, I had pulled out... spinning tire..... after spinning in first and then second gear, it shifted into third. I yanked shifter back into second while the throttle was wide open. That put the tack at 5,000. Took it to rev limiter then shift it back into third gear.
Now... if shifting from third back into second to slow down, the transmission seems to get tight then I click it back into third. I have no first gear, it is tight. The car pulls out in second gear. The rest of the gears work fine and reverse has very little hesitation. My question is... could it be a bent piece in valve body, celinoid, etc....
Note: I already removed valve body from car to inspect... no broken pieces, chunks, etc. PLEAS HELP ME!!!
09-05-2006, 09:31 PM #2
Hi I am not fully sur I understand what your saying it does but here may be some information that may help you explain it better
ok first gear is simply the input sprag and the forward clutch holding ,
second gear is the forward clutch and band applied.
third gear is the 3-4 (cirdr gear clucth aplied , band released and forward clutch holding makeing direct through drive
fourth gear is the band on with the 3-4 clutch applied and the forward clucth sprag free wheeling .
Now if it starts in second does it then shift to third and fourth ?
The only real diference between od position upshifts and down shifts and manual downshifts is the application of the overun clutch in d and 1 It is not on in second , now if its on in manual second you colud get a brake effect like binding ,
Please try and give more detail
09-06-2006, 01:26 PM #3
It does start in second and then it does shift to third and fourth (the shifter has to be in second in order for it to pull out in second). If shifter is in first, that is when I get my binding or break-like effect. Also, when shifting manually, from third to second, I also get the binding. First gear does not work at all. Also, I have noticed (only once) that reverse had a hesitation or "jerking" at very low speed only.
Hope this info. help. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Chad
09-07-2006, 11:09 AM #4
Well it sounds like the 2nd servo is allways applied , You did use the red spring that came with it didnt you ?if its aplied you will get a lockdown in first manually and you will start in second , I would look there first , if noting else try putting the stock servo back in temporarily and see what the efect is ,
09-07-2006, 04:35 PM #5
I thought of that and yes I used the red spring. Also, it starts out in 2nd and pulls in 2nd but it wont kick down into 1st, i have no 1st. Manually 1st is locked. I really was'nt sure what the servo did. I kept thinking that it was in the valve body and the fluid was bypassing somewhere. But I will definately try the servo.
How are the 4L60E trannies? Am I going to have future problems? Thanks so much I will reply tomarrow night and let you know how it turnd out. I see that your from PA. What part of PA are you in? I live in somerset pa.
Thanks again, Chad
09-07-2006, 05:41 PM #6
we are located in hazelton ,
As for the 4l60e , built right they can be and awsome trans but in stock form and abused a little they are a bit on the wimpy side ,
09-08-2006, 05:09 PM #7
Having no f$#k'n luck with it. The servo is fine. Have anymore ideas?
I worked in hazelton a cupple of years ago nice town.
09-08-2006, 07:43 PM #8
Hmm ok we can assume the second band is always applied , since you swaped the servo and the condition still exsist ,So why is the band always applied , Another question is are you getting any codes ?Ah i have and idea , did you use the plug to plug the larger 3rd acumulator hole in the plate ?The smaller hole could have become blocked.No that wouldnt work because then you would have a normal first when you first start vehical and it wouldnt start binding till after you made the 1-2 shift the first time ,
The problem your having dosent sense hydraulically , Heres why ?
first gear -forward clutch on,sprag holding
second gear =forward clutch on ,front sprag holding ,band applied
third gear =forward clutch on,3-4 clutch on ,band released via 3-4 clutch oil from behind it ,
fourth gear =forward clutch on but sprags freewheeling ,3-4 clutch on ,band aplied via fourth servo
If the second band was allways applied you would only have 2nd and 4th gear
because band on at start equals 2nd and band on with 3-4 clutch makes 4th.
Ok so where does that leave us?
lets think about solinoids and valves ,
ok first gear is both solinoids on and both valve stroked ,
second gear one solinoid on and one solinoid off valve same setup .
third gear is both solinoids off and both valves released.
fourth is one on and one off again ,
thinking about it theres no combination that would create your problem with solinoids and valves all would end up with you missing gears yes but no bind,I can only come up with two possible scenarios at this point , one would be a damaged 2nd or 4th accumulator piston most likley second the one held by the three bolts letting line tv modulated preasure to apply the band , I would look at both though , The other is either a valve body gasket or case crossleak , Heres what I would do if i was in your position I would take the valve body and acumulators down , I would look at both acumulators if they look ok fine if not replace and reassemble , If the do look ok though I would get the following items ,
Another valve body ,and the matching plate ,and a preasure control solinoid .
Heres why your problem is one of the following i beleave
cross leak.eiher with valve body or accumulators , or and this i just thought of excessive line preasure causing leaks between drums and seals , and because of this thought you also need to check the pr valve . if its stuck maxed it would flood the solinods cause crossleaks and bind up iratic gears particularly after a throttle run , so
check pr valve in pump it can be removed from under car
check accumulators ,
replace pcs solinoid
and if you find nothing in all these things replace the valve body , plate and gaskets .
Sorry this is so long but I was thinking through it aloud well sorta ,
Hope some of this helps
09-09-2006, 03:46 PM #9
ok today i got another trannny and swapped out valve bodies. Took the new one completely apart cleaned it and put the transgo parts from my old one into the new. Left the celanoids from the new in the new (except if your sitting in the car it would be the front left celanoid; it had to be changed the plug was different). I reinstalled the valve body. I checked the accelorator pump (I guess thats what it is.....the three bolt cap in the rear of the transmission pan). Everything seems to be find and everything up underneath it is fine. I put everything back together and took it for a test drive. It's still doing the same thing!!! NO first.... binding & tight.
Maybe this will help you......... when tranny is cold, first gear would move (very little while around 4,000 RMP's). I got aggreviated. I put it into second and rode the car pretty hard. Then, reverse got tight... had no reverse. Again.... ANY help would be greatly appreciated. I'm at the end of my ropes!
09-09-2006, 06:37 PM #10
did you check the preasure regulator valve ?
09-10-2006, 04:51 AM #11
Where is it located? Is it in the front of the valve body, straight up with a snap ring holding it in? If so, I had replaced factory with transgo parts but I never rechecked it. Do you think that may be the problem?
Also, I'm picking up a pressure gauge today and I'm going to check it. I'll post the reading later this evening.
Last edited by bealschad; 09-10-2006 at 06:25 AM.
09-10-2006, 07:41 AM #12
Actually its in the pump , and yes there would have been a new boost valve in the shift kit to be installed there ,you can remove it from under car its held in with a clip with two eyes .
09-11-2006, 01:48 PM #13
I could not locate a pressure gauge over the weekend but I did take the pan back down again and remove the pressure regulator valve. All parts were in tact... nothing broke or stuck. There were two springs in the kit that I had used. I don't know what else to do. Thinking about pulling tranny and giving it a complete overhaul. Do you think I'd be wasting my time? Or do you think it could be something else underneath that could be fixed. Thanks, Chad
09-11-2006, 06:52 PM #14
im still leaning toward a valve body or preasure issue the servo is applied , ty and find a guage even if its a high side a/c gauge but it must read 300 psi min , I would get that first and check the line , I wish i had a quick answer but im trying how far are you from hazelton
09-12-2006, 03:03 PM #15
I still have everything apart. What I'll do is put everything back together and I'll try to locate a gauge (or buy one). I'll check the line pressure. Correct me if I'm wrong.... but to check the line pressure, there is a 1/4" bolt above the shift linkage on the transmission. Is that where I attach the gauge?
If I remember, I'm a little over three hours from you.
I really appreciate all your help!
09-15-2006, 09:10 PM #16
Have you figured anything out yet ?
09-16-2006, 04:28 PM #17
Well I think I have had enough. Im not a dumd ass I have around 7 years of mechanic experience. I just never messed with an automatic. I had a couple of standards apart before, nothing to it. So today I put everything back together after checking and rechecking each and every part. I put a gauge on and at idol I had 100psi but I still have no 1st....tight. No reverse... tight. Now the God damn thing wont rev up in park, it is tight. "WHAT THE FUCK" could I have done wrong??? This is starting to suck. I have about $1000.00 in this tranny and it's fucked up. I dont know if I should just take a loss and by a 6 speed or rebuild this thing. I was looking at rebuild kits and I have found some good ones for around $500 but then I need to find someone to help me rebuild it that knows what they are doing. I wouldn't be scared if this thing wouldn't have fucked up. So help me make a decision. Im lossed and aggrevated. Thanks, Chad
09-17-2006, 01:34 PM #18
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Wood Dale Ill.
In the back of the case there is a housing called the 1-2 accumulator housing. I believe you called it an accelator pump. Remove that housing. I believe that you have a cracked piston, ripped d-ring or a missing d-ring. This will cause second gear starts because the band will be applied. Also it will be dragging the band in reverse. Also verify that the check ball is in the case above this housing. Good luck, Vince.
09-17-2006, 03:55 PM #19
Thanks Vince. If its the one with 3 bolts I had checked it and it looked fine.
It all started with 1st being tight. I had it apart 3 or 4 times checking different things. I got so pissed.... took it for a ride and when moving around 30 mph and ripping back in 1st (why? I dont know, just pissed) and hammered on the gas. Thinking It would break free. Now I dont have (we know 1st) no reverse and park won't rev up...they are tight. Neutral is a forward drive gear. I had enough and I'm really thinking about a 6 speed. Preformabuilt is getting me some #'s together to rebuild this one I guess I will make a decision then. It's probably something stupid and I just cant find it.
09-18-2006, 03:51 AM #20
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Wood Dale Ill.
I hear you. The bad part about it is that the low and reverse clutch has welded itself to gether at this point. Good luck to you, Vince.
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